Can't decide how to start re: building factories

[HomeworldFan]

I have 3 local traders and 2 sector traders, 2 scouts/explorers, and I am puttering about in my Perseus doing a bit of combat.

I'm now looking to start building complexes and factories but I can't really decide which path to take.

From what I read, there are two "types" of complexes -- an open-loop complex which has its materials shipped in and a closed-loop complex that has all the factories for the raw materials and just spits out the final product at the end. Is this correct? I can see a closed-loop setup being more efficient in building what I need (weapons, shields, etc.) but I'm not too sure if it can be profitable. The open-loop setup seems a bit more complex to run (having to set up CLS/CAG ships) and I'd have to locate it properly so as to "fill a need" in a sector or local area, but it may end up to be more profitable. For example, just set up a Solar Power Plant and a Wheat Farm or a meat farm in an area that needs them....

At this point, I am still looking for profit where I can so I am thinking open-loop, but then I am lost as to which one to do. Solar Plants are easy and everyone is short of E.Cells in my start area of Argon Prime, but the profits are low.... still, if I can put a Solar Plant in an area that doesn't have one within 2 jumps, I can probably get a healthy profit. Another consideration is Ore Mines + Solar Plants, but then this is limited to where the ore-containing asteroids are. Again, the area seems to be short of ore and I'm hoping the profits will be decent. Last would probably be some Silicon Mine --- while the profits may be great, I think it'll be a pain trying to move all that product.

I've started scanning asteroids and they say something like Yeild = 26, what does that mean? I think bigger = better, but does this mean only 26 product?

Anyway, a bit of a loss as to what to do or how to proceed here, any help appreciated!

[AgamemnonArgon]

Although there are some good ideas around for super complexes, I prefer not to have factories slowing down my game, and have always kept them small.

Missiles Make profits - such as the Thunderbolt. I add energy, crystals, ore and food and make it a small self sufficient complex.

I assign my TS to sell, and they then go to make a profit. I always assign more transports than I need to cover attrition losses.

I only assign a couple of fighters to factory complexes, as I will usually have a standing Patrol where they are usually of fighter carrying Frigates, each FFG with a Corvette Escort. Light or Heavy, it matters not.

Thunderbolt missiles are pretty good, and I use a lot myself, so it can be useful to buy at Trade Prices....

[HomeworldFan]

I keep forgetting to mention... I am playing vanilla TC (with bonus packs) and I am on the Argon Humble Merchant start. I'm still a small-time players, with only 4M credits and my biggest ship is an M3.

[Umbru]

Energy cells seldom make a profit so about the only time it makes sense to build a energy complex is if your going to cart the e.cells off to another station/complex somewhere.

To start with build something simpleish say a bakery and a cattle ranch to build meatsteaks then you can add a 1mj shield factory later and import energy and ore.

If you look under the guides sticky you'll find guide to station building and placement plus Decadeath's Station sugestions and a few station calculators to help you plan including This one that works in your web browser.

Personally I seldom make the huge closed loop complexes I usually build a complex to build one or two things and bring in energy with CAGs. But that is mostly because I hate hauling asteroids around and I am not very good at setting up pretty complex's

[Umbru]

Ok if your playing TC you want This calculator instead of this first one I linked. Also install the bonus pack CLS is a huge help for building a trading empire.

[HomeworldFan]

Thanks for the heads up Umbru, I'm adding that guide to my to-read list!

[Vayde]

No matter which way you go, be it combat or trader orientated, in vanilla TC, shields are never available in sufficient quantities for you growing auto pilot fleet.

I like to start a shield plex as early as I can. As you are on the Humble Merchant start you are already on fairly good terms with the Argon. So start with a humble plex. A trip down to CBSE will help you find some suitable asteroids on which to place your first L ore mine.

There's also a shipyard and a roaming Mammoth in sector, which can be put to good use. Place an ore mine L when you can afford it and get 1 of your traders to look after it. Give it some start up capital and use the CAG software from the bonus pack.

Next to help you generate some cash get a 1mj shield fab from the shipyard along with a complex construction kit and bolt it onto your mine. Move the complex hub a good distance from the mine. Set your buying price for ecells and cahoona's at minimum and shield selling price at 1 below avg, allow other races to trade with it.

Your CAG will continue to buy ecells and cahoonas while the mine supplies the ore. Other races will buy the shields as quick as you can make them. Expand a little by buying a cahoona bakery L so your CAG only has ecells and Argnu beef to buy. You won't need a cattle ranch as the surrounding sectors have an abundance of Argnu beef for low prices.

The L mine and bakery can keep 3 - 4 stations supplied so adding a 200MJ shield fab next will allow you to start stock piling. The only other shield fab the argons do is the 2GJ which also happens to be sold in CBSE. Those shields are a fair way off for your chosen start so add either another couple of 1MJ fabs for faster profits or another 200MJ fab to speed up production of those shields.

This is by no means the quickest or indeed the best way to get a plex going. But it is steady profit and also ensures that when you need 200MJ shields for your fleet you have some at hand.

[Imgran]

No matter which way you go, be it combat or trader orientated, in vanilla TC, shields are never available in sufficient quantities for you growing auto pilot fleet.

That's why I use the Xenon Hub as a weapons dump. There's never enough all at once, but if you spend enough money to gradually but constantly source shielding, it really accumulates, and doesn't cost that much to do it -- a few ticks over average price is usually enough.

Right now I could source enough 25 Mj shielding, easily, to fill a carrier with Solanos.

[Triaxx2]

SPP's are money sinks. Useful money sinks, but still.

1MJ shields, and Mosquito missiles are excellent sellers, anywhere.

Microchips sell exceptionally well, but are more expensive to make.

If you willing to go illegal, Weed and Fuel are exceptional earners.

[Umbru]

Almost forgot advanced satellites will pretty much always sell at max price so once you can afford it is an great way to make money.

[Vayde]

@Imgran

I do hear what you saying there, the Xenon Hub is one of my fav ways to gather needed resources also. However Homeworldfan wrote

I have 3 local traders and 2 sector traders, 2 scouts/explorers, and I am puttering about in my Perseus doing a bit of combat.

I'm now looking to start building complexes and factories but I can't really decide which path to take.

Xenon Hub for him is a while away so I was just trying to get him started with the assets he has now.

[thelebk]

What are the consequences of owning an illegal factory for the player? There is already a space fuel factory in herrons nebula where would you put a weed factory? Will the police attack your ships? will your station be attacked by police? will your faction ratings suffer? Also I assume only the teladi will sell such a station. Where is a good place to put say a weed factory?

[brownthomasw]

"they say something like Yeild = 26, what does that mean?"

it means the mine produces faster, how exactly it works out idk. 26 is good, 20 is average, 56+ are really good.

"What are the consequences of owning an illegal factory for the player?"

you probably lose some race ranking, the local security forces will destroy your station but you don't become an immediate enemy. I think they'll attack your ships even if you're not in them if they scan them and find something. The argon actually sell the space fuel factories even though they're illegal. You can have spaceweed in teladi space but not spacefuel. There's rumors you can get away with illegal complexes in some border sectors far away from the main traffic. I've tried to go behin the gate but maybe i didn't go far enough. it' risky. The other choices are unknown sectors or pirate space.

I usually do the unknown sector

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near Gian Star. Customers get out there, and when i have time i intend to do some station missions for more pirates out there.

and i'm trying a new one in pirate space

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Hatikvas Faith. and just hope no pirates or anyone bothers it. Jump in fuel and hope he makes it across the exposed part and eventually drag a silicon roid over and set up an spp so no one has to go in or out.

[Umbru]

Here is a list although the only real advantage of illegal goods over tech stuff is how far you can scale it up and still have it be profitable and the fact that NPC traders will come to you to buy them without you having to risk getting your trade ships shot down by police.

[thelebk]

Interesting Stuff. The unknown sectors I have found are completely empty with gates that are leagues away from any other gates or stations. If I put a weed factory will the AI actually fly ships all the way out there to buy?

[AgamemnonArgon]

It may be more use to put a weed or space fuel factory in a Pirate Sector next to or somewhere bordering the main alien race sectors so they have less distance to travel to buy.

It would also mean any supply TS based there, that need resources also have less distance to travel.

or

Using a few cheap M5's to supply it with energy and other small class cargo would mean they would be effective blockade runners and also be able to escape faster pirate or police ships.

[HomeworldFan]

Thanks for the replies guys.

No desire to dabble in illegal goods at the moment, and I think I'm still a long way off from needing big-ship-type stuff. Just starting small.

Let me clarify one thing though: Yield is just how fast a mine can spit out resources? Do the asteroids actually run out of ore/silicon? ie, bigger yield = will provide more resources vs a smaller yield value?

[Infekted]

Mines have infinite resource. The yield simply determines how fast they turn energy into minerals.

Illegal goods have the best ROI going for factories. And the fact you can just slap them up and buy in the required resources easily and cheaply makes them very good for the first credit makers. Literally like credit printing machines.

[DiArmada]

I've started scanning asteroids and they say something like Yeild = 26, what does that mean?

there are different types of factories; small, medium and large. (and XL SPP's)

small = 1 x production = 5 asteroid yield = 15 energycells per minute.
medium = 2 x production = 10 asteroid yield = 30 energycells per minute.
large = 5 x production = 25 asteroid yield = 75 energycells per minute.

this calculation is based on large mines.
an asteroid with 26 yield can supply one large or five small factories.
there are no "small" factories in name, every factory without M, L or XL is a small one.
the mine will consume a little over 75 energycells per minute.

[Rive]

I'm now looking to start building complexes and factories but I can't really decide which path to take.

Except you have a very good PC it's not good to build (big) complexes in sectors you frequently visit.

Otherwise I would start with a lone factory which can be expanded to a complex later on. The target can be a Crystal-complex, maybe: so a silicone mine (with high yield) would be a good start. You have to choose a sector where there is enough asteroid around to build a small self-sustaining complex.

Then you can attach some CAGs and add the new factories as you can get the necessary money to progress.

My first such complex is always in Antigone Memorial.