X3:AP M7M supply complex advice
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X3:AP M7M supply complex advice
I'm looking into building a supply complex for an M7M, but I'm wondering. What is a good sector to build the complex in? how many of each missile factory should I build? and what are the required stations to make a closed, self-sufficient loop?. This would be my first complex build in any X game I've ever played, so I'm a bit confused.
I usually just buy the missiles from the NPC factories, with CLS buyers, and it works out ok for flails because there are many fabs.
The biggest contributing factor to your complex is whether you want to make it completely self-sustained, or are willing to buy energy from NPC solar plants (via automated traders, of course).
The reason is because the player solar power plants require crystals, which require silicon, food, and energy, so just to produce energy you need a 5+ station complex. Whereas if you buy the energy from the NPCs (who produce it for free, no resources required), then all you need to add to your complex is the missile factories you want, plus some food and ore. It's much smaller.
In any case, here is an older Complex Building Calculator that was designed for X3TC but still applies, that actually still works as far as the resource math. As you add fabs at the top, the bottom will update with resources required, and your aim is to have everything green.
Start by adding a Flails factory, then the ore and food fabs to supply that. Leave the energy red, or try to add a solar power plant then feed it, and you'll see.
The biggest contributing factor to your complex is whether you want to make it completely self-sustained, or are willing to buy energy from NPC solar plants (via automated traders, of course).
The reason is because the player solar power plants require crystals, which require silicon, food, and energy, so just to produce energy you need a 5+ station complex. Whereas if you buy the energy from the NPCs (who produce it for free, no resources required), then all you need to add to your complex is the missile factories you want, plus some food and ore. It's much smaller.
In any case, here is an older Complex Building Calculator that was designed for X3TC but still applies, that actually still works as far as the resource math. As you add fabs at the top, the bottom will update with resources required, and your aim is to have everything green.
Start by adding a Flails factory, then the ore and food fabs to supply that. Leave the energy red, or try to add a solar power plant then feed it, and you'll see.
I've made such a complex early in my game, in Ore Belt.
http://home.wolfsburg.de/kprohrbeck/eng ... on,M,2,118
For a closed loop complex, it has very little overproduction of intermediate resources.
It only produces 12 Flails and 12 Hammers per hour, however. I only use these to blow up the occasional bothersome pirate station. Scale it up when you want more Flails and/or Hammers.
I find the Xadrian offline calculator immensely helpful for this.
http://home.wolfsburg.de/kprohrbeck/eng ... on,M,2,118
For a closed loop complex, it has very little overproduction of intermediate resources.
It only produces 12 Flails and 12 Hammers per hour, however. I only use these to blow up the occasional bothersome pirate station. Scale it up when you want more Flails and/or Hammers.
I find the Xadrian offline calculator immensely helpful for this.
You will need mountains of missiles, a minimun will be around 10 factories of each, that mean that you will need a lot of silicon for crystals and ore.
Use the complex calculator and look for sectores well comunicated with the minerals needed, it will mean a lot of hours moving mines to get them close to de your complex.
Use the complex calculator and look for sectores well comunicated with the minerals needed, it will mean a lot of hours moving mines to get them close to de your complex.
My NPC fabs are full of missiles, but that's because I feed the local economy.
I have automated traders, 20 of them set to do Sector Trading with 1-3 adjacent sectors, spread out so all areas of the map are serviced by at least one trader (often 2). I also have typically 6 Ore Mines (one per major racial area) and several BoFu and Nostrop complexes to feed the Boron and Teladi zones (which are deficient).
So that pretty much ensures that all NPC factories get plenty of energy, ore, and food.
The issue is that within the first few hours of a new game start, when you don't have the funds to deploy all these traders and factories, the game's GoD engine does look at which factories are profitable and which are not, and removes them.
You start with A LOT of Flail fabs, and a few Hammer and Tomahawk fabs, so after the purge you end up with an average number of Flail fabs, and very few Hammer and Tomahawks. Your traders and ore/food fabs then kick in and prevent further deletions.
So it works out pretty good for flails. I have a trained CLS pilot on a ship and I order it to "buy all flails everywhere", nets me 150 - 200 in about an hour, then I have to wait a few hours for production to happen. Problem is that I only get 20-30 Hammer Heavy and 50-60 Tomahawks.
Typically, your M7M use is - you shoot hammers to take shields down, and shoot flails to maintain shields, so typically 30-50 hammers followed by 200 flails easily. So it kinda matches production.
I have automated traders, 20 of them set to do Sector Trading with 1-3 adjacent sectors, spread out so all areas of the map are serviced by at least one trader (often 2). I also have typically 6 Ore Mines (one per major racial area) and several BoFu and Nostrop complexes to feed the Boron and Teladi zones (which are deficient).
So that pretty much ensures that all NPC factories get plenty of energy, ore, and food.
The issue is that within the first few hours of a new game start, when you don't have the funds to deploy all these traders and factories, the game's GoD engine does look at which factories are profitable and which are not, and removes them.
You start with A LOT of Flail fabs, and a few Hammer and Tomahawk fabs, so after the purge you end up with an average number of Flail fabs, and very few Hammer and Tomahawks. Your traders and ore/food fabs then kick in and prevent further deletions.
So it works out pretty good for flails. I have a trained CLS pilot on a ship and I order it to "buy all flails everywhere", nets me 150 - 200 in about an hour, then I have to wait a few hours for production to happen. Problem is that I only get 20-30 Hammer Heavy and 50-60 Tomahawks.
Typically, your M7M use is - you shoot hammers to take shields down, and shoot flails to maintain shields, so typically 30-50 hammers followed by 200 flails easily. So it kinda matches production.
Just built a small 3xflail/3xhammer complex (self sustaining)
Game: X³: Albion Prelude
Sector: Avarice
Suns: 150 %
Code: AwgIoQEDnwEDfTMAiAE4AO8BAQgBTAFcAlcDnQEDAA==
Factories:
3x Flail Missile Production Facility (Argon)
3x Hammer Torpedo Fabrication Facility (Argon)
1x Ore Mine L (Teladi, Yield: 50)
1x Silicon Mine L (Teladi, Yield: 55)
1x Solar Power Plant L (Boron)
1x Solar Power Plant M (Boron)
1x Crystal Fab L (Argon)
2x Crystal Fab M (Argon)
3x Cahoona Bakery L (Argon)
3x Cattle Ranch L (Argon)
Total price: 59,368,880 Cr
Profit per Hour: 1,534,727 Cr
Xadrian is quite helpful for this.
Ore and Silicon is overkill, but i plan on expanding it anyway.
To build anything like this you will also need a tractor beam and a ship that can actually fire it (M6 and above if i remember right).
Unless you find a nice silicon and ore roid within 10km or so (was it 20? im not sure now)
Game: X³: Albion Prelude
Sector: Avarice
Suns: 150 %
Code: AwgIoQEDnwEDfTMAiAE4AO8BAQgBTAFcAlcDnQEDAA==
Factories:
3x Flail Missile Production Facility (Argon)
3x Hammer Torpedo Fabrication Facility (Argon)
1x Ore Mine L (Teladi, Yield: 50)
1x Silicon Mine L (Teladi, Yield: 55)
1x Solar Power Plant L (Boron)
1x Solar Power Plant M (Boron)
1x Crystal Fab L (Argon)
2x Crystal Fab M (Argon)
3x Cahoona Bakery L (Argon)
3x Cattle Ranch L (Argon)
Total price: 59,368,880 Cr
Profit per Hour: 1,534,727 Cr
Xadrian is quite helpful for this.
Ore and Silicon is overkill, but i plan on expanding it anyway.
To build anything like this you will also need a tractor beam and a ship that can actually fire it (M6 and above if i remember right).
Unless you find a nice silicon and ore roid within 10km or so (was it 20? im not sure now)
- Sabrina Bergin
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- Joined: Sat, 12. Apr 08, 10:53
I prefer a ratio of 2x flail per hammer stations in my complexes as you need flails far more than you need the hammers.
But as I have 4 Missile complex's exclusively for my own use, just over producing intermediate products they all pay for themselves.
So every op I do to steal something shiny only costs me lost marines which at this stage is a very rare event as I only use Elites on Capital ships.
But as I have 4 Missile complex's exclusively for my own use, just over producing intermediate products they all pay for themselves.
So every op I do to steal something shiny only costs me lost marines which at this stage is a very rare event as I only use Elites on Capital ships.
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- Joined: Mon, 22. Jul 13, 03:09
10 x 10 is overkill. I have 5 x 5 which is more than enough. Don't you use the SETA trick? All/most of your hammers will hit and you'll only need about 15 hammers for an m2 (or a weak m1). And flails should be only about 30 - 50. I'm overstocked with missiles and I've capped several m1, 2s and 7s in quick succession.Erqco wrote:You will need mountains of missiles, a minimun will be around 10 factories of each, that mean that you will need a lot of silicon for crystals and ore.
Use the complex calculator and look for sectores well comunicated with the minerals needed, it will mean a lot of hours moving mines to get them close to de your complex.
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- Joined: Tue, 9. Aug 11, 00:52
I get away with 2 flails and 1 hammer. I don't ride around in the m7m all the time and have kept things relatively small. A cag trader buying them from the world fills up where ever they buy them for quickly enough you just have to pull off the 12 every now and then like a factory or have a cls stockpile them somewhere. I don't like relying on traders to buy them though. I feel bad spending money sometimes 50k per missile even if money doesn't matter. A good ore yield will support more as you add later.
Try to buy all of them of the same race so one L food combo should support 5 missiles or 3 missiles and 1 M crystals. If you have cag's trained you can put 3 flails, 1 hammer or whatever missile together and have cags assigned to each resource or one on energy and food then one on energy and ore. No silicon, no crystals, none of that just missiles. Truck in ore from mobile mining and ore doesn't cost you energy or anything besides the miners ships. Easier to drop the complex on 1 high yield roid that you don't have to tow and build the rest around that. Bring in finished food and energy or make it.
Try to buy all of them of the same race so one L food combo should support 5 missiles or 3 missiles and 1 M crystals. If you have cag's trained you can put 3 flails, 1 hammer or whatever missile together and have cags assigned to each resource or one on energy and food then one on energy and ore. No silicon, no crystals, none of that just missiles. Truck in ore from mobile mining and ore doesn't cost you energy or anything besides the miners ships. Easier to drop the complex on 1 high yield roid that you don't have to tow and build the rest around that. Bring in finished food and energy or make it.
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- Posts: 148
- Joined: Wed, 19. Jul 06, 16:02
I've got my weapon complex set up in Gunne's Crusade (currently very few hostile pirates in my game, so it's pretty safe), with 3-5 each of hammer and flail factories. Also producing hornets, mosquitoes, wasps, firestorms, typhoons, and various guns at that same complex, and I still have lots of asteroids left to use. I also have a CLS freighter running missiles from the complex to a military outpost (bought using Pirate Guild script) I've built in the middle of the sector, and a couple more ships docked there stockpiling ordinance.
That said, I currently only have 1 M7M to supply - a Senshi, currently sitting about 10km above the center of the sector in case the Paranid next door decide to cause trouble.
That said, I currently only have 1 M7M to supply - a Senshi, currently sitting about 10km above the center of the sector in case the Paranid next door decide to cause trouble.
The biggest question I always ask myself when I make such complexes (not that I have made a lot, but still), is "Do I need a LOT of them, and will I keep needing them?".
Some complexes, like spaceweed and spacefuel, are just moneymakers.
Weapons and missiles? Personally, I play X as an economic/trading game, and try to avoid combat as much as possible, so there's no real need to spend millions on missiles because I'm just not going to use them.
The Flail/Hammer closed loop complex was the smallest, most efficient one possible, with an even number of Flails and Hammers. I only made this to eventually board the Deca.
Because of the HUB plot, you'll probably make a lot of closed loop plexes, most of which will stay useful for feeding shipbuilding at your HQ.
Whoops, turned into a rant. Anyway, my take on this is "Only make one when needed in bulk, and over the longterm".
Some complexes, like spaceweed and spacefuel, are just moneymakers.
Weapons and missiles? Personally, I play X as an economic/trading game, and try to avoid combat as much as possible, so there's no real need to spend millions on missiles because I'm just not going to use them.
The Flail/Hammer closed loop complex was the smallest, most efficient one possible, with an even number of Flails and Hammers. I only made this to eventually board the Deca.
Because of the HUB plot, you'll probably make a lot of closed loop plexes, most of which will stay useful for feeding shipbuilding at your HQ.
Whoops, turned into a rant. Anyway, my take on this is "Only make one when needed in bulk, and over the longterm".
There's blueprints for a self-sustaining M7M supply complex somewhere on the links page in my signature.
EDIT: Ok, Heavy Missile Production Plant, Clarity's End. This is for TC, mind you, so which asteroids are where may be different, but I don't think factory yields and requirements changed. You'll need a minimum 59 yield of ore asteroids and 59 yield of silicon.
EDIT: Ok, Heavy Missile Production Plant, Clarity's End. This is for TC, mind you, so which asteroids are where may be different, but I don't think factory yields and requirements changed. You'll need a minimum 59 yield of ore asteroids and 59 yield of silicon.