Is X3 Reunion combat better than TC ?

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Kitteh
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Is X3 Reunion combat better than TC ?

Post by Kitteh » Fri, 6. Sep 13, 18:10

I am wondering whether X3 Reunion is worth it if you like space combat ? Basically I am looking for the following

- Tough and powerful capships, in Terran Conflict PBGs on every fighter make M6s very fragile, even M7s can die to 5-6 Blastclaws.

- M3,M4,M5 all having balanced. It being viable to actually fly an Argon Elite or Buster if you are skilled enough.

- Good enemies, TC had this but often it was due to one hit kill weapons AI often carried (PBGs, 1.2 GJ hammerhead torps being randomly fired). Good enemies offering a decent dogfight with PACs and HEPTs would be better IMHO.

The economic aspects of TC is most excellent and I have no complain there. But the combat left me underwhelmed, it's basically sit back and spam missiles if you don't want to get frustated.

I read on forums and youtube that Reunion had better combat. So I am wondering it is worth buying if you already have played TC.

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Threesixtyci
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Post by Threesixtyci » Fri, 6. Sep 13, 18:28

I remember it being about the same, but having more glitches. Also your own missiles will kill you almost 100% of the time if you fire them when in a furball. So, spam missiles will likely equal your own death. What happens is their laser fire makes your missile explode right in your face. They fixed the missile thing in TC via a patch. No M7's in Reunion, either.

The hard part is that there is no repair laser in Reunion. So, ships can become total losses once the hull is damaged more than 50%. In that it becomes cheaper to replace the ship than to repair it. It's also makes it possible to never have enough money to do anything. Imagine being stuck in a M3 with almost no hull, thus equaling almost no speed. Kinda hard to earn money when your top speed is 30m/s or lower...

No Comm mission in Reunion. It's all Bulletin Board. And to read the BBS you have to dock at the station. And often, the mission listed are one's you can't do. You can't do them because missions in Reunion have a minimum Fighter Rank or Trade Rank rating and that's on top of the correct ship type you docked with. Also the BBS is full of news posts so you only get about 3 missions after about 14 text screens. As for text screens when you first dock there are usually only 5 posts, but after about 30 seconds 12-14 will pop on. Only good thing about the BBS, is that the game does autosave everytime you dock. Also the BBS has stuff in it that didn't make it to the Comm mission system of TC. Things like lottery, blackjack, donations, station repair, and progressive Fast Taxi missions.

No Guide markers in Reunion either. Meaning for Taxi mission, you must know the surrounding areas before hand. If you go blind it's most likely that you'll fail the taxi missions due to time constants. Comm system in Reunion is mainly used for directions, but only for plot missions.

The glitchy part is when your target is a huge ship (forgot what the ships are called, I just remember them as yacht ships. Same one you get as a reward from the Balai Gi's missions.). You can block their path with your ship and the AI puts their ship to a full stop, turning them into easy targets. Although it will still take you about 5 minutes to get thru their shields and hull.

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 6. Sep 13, 19:07

Reunion is much better if you like dogfighting in fighters rather than capital ships, IMO. You aren't forced into capital ship combat as you progress in the game like TC and AP. And fighters don't have the overpowering weapons such as PBG's and PBE's like the latter two games, although you do encounter the occasional PSG-equipped pirate.
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Re: Is X3 Reunion combat better than TC ?

Post by Geek » Fri, 6. Sep 13, 20:35

Reunion has the best overall combat balance IMO.
Fighter combat is viable for all classes (with the appropriate tactics), enemies have a variety of loadouts, less missile spam.

As said above though there is no frigates, and some M2 have few anti fighter defense, so it require a bit more strategic thinking.
Anyway reputation is harder to gain, so will have to learn fight properly before you reach the capital stage.
Last edited by Geek on Fri, 6. Sep 13, 21:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by AgamemnonArgon » Fri, 6. Sep 13, 20:38

I have enjoyed the last two weeks of my new game, of Terran Conflict, using fighters as I improve my worth and reputation

TC is more advanced than Reunion, but I still plan to maintain both games on my pc.
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Post by InFlamesForEver » Fri, 6. Sep 13, 20:42

If you want a harder combat experience I suggest you go down the modded TC/AP route and get the XRM mod. It makes it a lot harder to kill bigger ships in a fighter. I can just about beat an M6 in a heavy fighter and just about an M7 in an M6. So if you're ok with the modified tag then that could be an option to you.
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Post by JoeVN09 » Fri, 6. Sep 13, 21:43

TC has a wide range of combat experiences in a multitude of ship classes and offers combat missions pretty much on demand. It does not, however, have the sheer volume of enemy fighters found in Reunion in places like LooManckStrat's Legacy and Xenon sectors. Reunion, of course, doesn't have M7s, bombers or missile frigates which helped to bridge some wide performance gaps in X combat.
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Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 7. Sep 13, 07:50

Nanook wrote:And fighters don't have the overpowering weapons such as PBG's and PBE's like the latter two games, although you do encounter the occasional PSG-equipped pirate.
PBEs do exist in Reunion, but I think the main difference is that Xenon ships don't have them. Mind you, Kha'ak clusters are pretty painful in their own right in that game!

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Post by Lone Jedi » Sat, 7. Sep 13, 08:26

InFlamesForEver wrote:If you want a harder combat experience I suggest you go down the modded TC/AP route and get the XRM mod. It makes it a lot harder to kill bigger ships in a fighter. I can just about beat an M6 in a heavy fighter and just about an M7 in an M6. So if you're ok with the modified tag then that could be an option to you.
Being forced to fight in bigger ships is the exact opposite of what the OP wants. And this is what I believe as bad balancing.

Back to topic:

In Reunion, you can pretty much solo in a fighter for the entire game, without even ever firing a single missile.

In TC, if you have decent skills and/or a right M3, it's still possible to solo a game. PBGs and heavy missiles are easy to avoid. Mind your proximity for the former and speed for the latter.

In AP, it will take very long time to kill capital ships in your fighter due to the increased hull values. Missile barrages of foes are annoying. You can still solo a game with a very fast M3 (you can overtune it) and the hit-and-run tactics, but the process is tedious.

Anyhow, I don't believe the games were designed to be played with a sole fighter. I did enjoy a lot in TC with my primary M3 fighting alongside a carrier fleet.
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Post by AgamemnonArgon » Sat, 7. Sep 13, 21:00

I valued the introduction of the M7 - in my opinion, a true Space Cruiser, in SF terms above a Corvette, and below a Destroyer.

That missing link was why Reunion never appealed to me as much as it could have, or now does.

Looking at the Teladi Shrike Class - one of those to cruise the Galaxy in, would be just right.

It looks like a cruiser, should look.
One appeared in front of me, through a gate the other night, and on the other side of things in my M3, it was an overwhelming sight.

Go for an M7.
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Post by InFlamesForEver » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 11:41

Lone Jedi wrote:
InFlamesForEver wrote:If you want a harder combat experience I suggest you go down the modded TC/AP route and get the XRM mod. It makes it a lot harder to kill bigger ships in a fighter. I can just about beat an M6 in a heavy fighter and just about an M7 in an M6. So if you're ok with the modified tag then that could be an option to you.
Being forced to fight in bigger ships is the exact opposite of what the OP wants. And this is what I believe as bad balancing.
How is it bad balancing if the player has to use a huge amount of skill to kill a huge capital ship rather than just being able to sit there and attack it? In vanilla I find it far easier to kill M7's than M5's because the weapons are so slow, now its the other way around, and shouldn't it be that way?
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Post by Lone Jedi » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 12:00

InFlamesForEver wrote:
Lone Jedi wrote:
InFlamesForEver wrote:If you want a harder combat experience I suggest you go down the modded TC/AP route and get the XRM mod. It makes it a lot harder to kill bigger ships in a fighter. I can just about beat an M6 in a heavy fighter and just about an M7 in an M6. So if you're ok with the modified tag then that could be an option to you.
Being forced to fight in bigger ships is the exact opposite of what the OP wants. And this is what I believe as bad balancing.
How is it bad balancing if the player has to use a huge amount of skill to kill a huge capital ship rather than just being able to sit there and attack it? In vanilla I find it far easier to kill M7's than M5's because the weapons are so slow, now its the other way around, and shouldn't it be that way?
Think this way: the bigger ships are overpowered, so everyone tends to fly them, making small ships like fighters nothing but decoration of your screen.

If killing an M7 in an M6 is very tough, then killing an M6 in an M7 is very easy.
Last edited by Lone Jedi on Sun, 8. Sep 13, 12:14, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by InFlamesForEver » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 12:03

That sort of feels like saying a tank is overpowered compared to a pickup truck with a gun attached to the back of it. Yes its overpowered, but for a very good reason, a few million.
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Post by Lone Jedi » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 12:17

InFlamesForEver wrote:That sort of feels like saying a tank is overpowered compared to a pickup truck with a gun attached to the back of it. Yes its overpowered, but for a very good reason, a few million.
So everyone chooses the tank. Do you think that's good balancing?
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Post by InFlamesForEver » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 12:20

Not really (this is as true for vanilla as modded), but I honestly never choose the tank in X3, I choose the fast M6 middle ground because I don't like being bored travelling for 3 hours when I could get there in 10 mins. Its also far more fun in an M6 than in a fighter or a destroyer. You can take both fighters and capital ships and once you've overtuned it, you can have basically a super heavy fighter for an M6.
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Post by Geek » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 12:43

Your point is very clear but do not expect everyone to share it.

It is much better to have specialized ships and weapons than the opposite IMO. This adds depth and replayability.
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Post by Hemmingfish » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 13:00

I'd like to point out that cost is no substitute for balance, because even if it's expensive it's still overpowered. Even moreso in X where money is cheap.

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Post by AgamemnonArgon » Sun, 8. Sep 13, 15:34

I fly an M3 currently, but the only combat I engage in, isto one shot M5s, two shot M4s, and three or four shot M3s, using my Silkworm or Hornet missiles, of which I built factories for that very purpose.

I will dogfight one to one as time permits, but give me six Pirate fighters, and I will move to the best targeting range, and take them down with missiles.
If a survivor is there, I will try and have done successfully, to kill or capture their own ship.

Using missiles, it matters not if I am in an M3 or an M6 or higher.

The shipping lanes need to remain safe, for my trade ships.

Although, even with that, I lost eight freighters last evening to a very clever, and sneaky Pirate attack.

My transports with escort fighters survived, those without, did not....
All in all, good fun to be had....
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