Which matters most in OOS combat: shield or hull DPS?

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Valtarien
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Which matters most in OOS combat: shield or hull DPS?

Post by Valtarien » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 02:35

In choosing the best weapon for OOS combat, I'm trying to decide which to arm my ships with. So which matters most in OOS combat calculations: Shield or hull DPS?

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Sabrina Bergin
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Post by Sabrina Bergin » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 04:19

The OOS calculator lets enemies have the first shot based on their total weaponry so it is advisable to put the most powerful weapons the ship can mount in its weapons slot.

If your ship survives the first attack then it has its turn and if it has max weapons then it will have a devastating effect on its target.

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Masochisto
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Post by Masochisto » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 04:56

It would be easier to compare the weapons you are considering directly, but I would suggest the aggregate damage (shield & hull) as mattering most.

Valtarien
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Post by Valtarien » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 05:35

So are you saying that only the gross total of shield + hull damage per second is considered, without favoring one type of damage over the other?

For example (I'm playing with X3AP with XRM, so the stats may be different than you might expect): I'm considering loading my freighters with either four Ion Pulse Generators (9158 shield DPS, 233 hull DPS), four Concussion Impulse Generators (5367 shield DPS, 933 hull DPS), or a combination of the two. If only considering the gross sum of damage, irrespective of type, the Ion Pulse Generators come out on top (in OOS combat), but if hull damage is weighted more than shield damage, than the Concussion Impulse Generators win out.

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Masochisto
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Post by Masochisto » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 05:41

It isn't that hull or shield aren't factored in, its just that you never know what your enemy will be. In XRM I would think you should favor hull damage due to the higher hull values.

I would recommend not arming your freighters at all - it just makes them more costly to replace, and sometimes causes them to fight when they should run. Shields and Jumpdrive are their best defense. Adding Fight Command Software on them can cause them to try to fight too, so I would recommend keeping that off of them as well.

ajax34i
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Post by ajax34i » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 06:16

Yeah, arming freighters (other than the defensive rear turret) may make them fight instead of immediately initializing the 10-second jump sequence (which 10 seconds take forever).

Otherwise, in X3TC:

The shields get shot first and then the hull, but look at per-shot damage of weapons rather than DPS. Because the OOS combat becomes turn-based, and a mass driver will fire 1 shot per turn, same as a PPC, so looking at damage per second doesn't make much sense. Typically, X3TC ships have minuscule hulls, so you really want the ship with the biggest shields and the biggest guns. Bigger size guns beat smaller size (for M7's, IBL beats CIG, so the M7's that can install IBL are king), and the per-shot or hull-shield differences only matter for fighter craft, maybe.

On the other hand, in X3AP:

They made the OOS combat behave more like IS combat, AND the capital ships have huge hulls. It's very common to shoot the shields off an M2 in about 10 seconds, and then look at another 30-40 seconds of hull combat. Gauss Cannons are noticeably better than PPCs at killing capital ships faster, because they do more hull damage. But, still, biggest shield+hull and biggest gun class are still king. Megalodon M2 is a huge beast that is easy to strafe around IS, quite a few of its guns can't bear and you can dodge the others. OOS, though, no collisions, every ship is a dot, and every ship shoots all its weapons, so Megalodon is better than the very much smaller Boreas.

EDIT: Also, a set of 32-40 PPC grade weapons that M2 ships can carry is too much for any kind of defense, so, OOS M2 combat is like a gun fight, whoever shoots first wins (typically the invader shoots first, defender has to be attacked for the defense scripts to activate). IS only 8-16 turrets face the right way, so combat takes a little time, but OOS it's much faster.

Valtarien
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Post by Valtarien » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 08:11

Great info., thank you! That explains a lot. Though I've not yet armed any of my freighters, I have noticed lately that a lot of attacks on them come from one to three stray M5s and M4s. With four good turrets and the usual complement of ten drones that the pilots keep in stock on their own, I thought they might fend off some of these low-level attacks so that I don't need to respond to every emergency - only the big ones. Still, I know it comes with some risk.
Last edited by Valtarien on Sun, 22. Sep 13, 21:36, edited 1 time in total.

ajax34i
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Post by ajax34i » Sun, 22. Sep 13, 15:01

Well, although the TS transport has more shielding than any single M5 or M4's, it typically only has 1 gun, and it's facing 3 M5's and an M4; that's 18 guns and 24 MJ shields vs. the transport's 1 gun and 75 MJ shields.

The math seems to say that in the time it takes 1 gun to chew through 24 MJ, 18 guns would kill 432 MJ which is way more than 75, so the TS freighter loses. Which is why you want it to pop drones and jump out immediately, rather than fight.

The roaming aggressive pirates or Xenons or whatever enemy race you have don't jump around. They originate at a base and go roaming, which means that effective defenses are:

1. Use your automated traders' blacklist features to block them from going into, or near, pirate, xenon, or enemy areas.

2. Post a fixed, oversized, overkill ship at the entry gates, set to defend area. M2 with big guns + 2 of the M7's that specialize in flak should take care of a few M4's, no?

3. Use early warning satellites (X3AP bonus pack feature) and a rapid-response ship to take care of the enemies. Satellites beep; you manually order nasty M7 (Shrike with Gauss Cannons and 8x M3 escorts, Tiger with IBLs and FLAK) to jump there and kill the intruders.

4. Make it personal. Satellites beep, and you jump there manually in your souped-up M3 fighter, M6 corvette, M8 bomber to kill the intruders. Allows for smaller ships to be used, and missiles (which kill from 18-70 km away), and smart tactics (jump at nearest gate, turbo boost to intercept, save/reload game if the threat is big, collect loot and any ships that bail, etc.)

firestorm79
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Post by firestorm79 » Fri, 27. Sep 13, 13:48

incidentally, do M8s use their Tomas OOS?

pref
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Post by pref » Fri, 27. Sep 13, 13:52

I think OOS does not use DPS, but damage per hit (at least in TC) - making PSP the ultimate OOS weaponry...
Is this the same in AP, or has this changed?

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