X3AP - TS not jumping Emergency Jumping!

[Hiper-Boy]

Mods used with this game:
X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) ---- (Changes price of items as well I think)
X3AP_Bonus_Pack_5.1.0.0
Smart Turret 4_6_1
mars-tc-ap_v5.26
Sector Visual Enhancement



Hello all,

I just started playing not to long ago, a few days at most, figured out where to get what thanks to this community. So, now I made a few million thanks to the stock exchange, not sure if thats cheating do to how much you can make in just a short time. Anyways, I made my millions and got a few TS ships, I got everything they need, jumpdrive, MK3 Trading Software, and anything else that was mention in a guide I was reading for trading.

I got them all to level 8 and started universal trading, things seem to be going well. I let the game run for a few hours on SETA, made 60mill lost 4 ships. Well that was a pain. Started the prosses again, however, this time I stayed at the PC with SETA running and waited. I saw that one of my ships was getting attacked, the fight actually took a little while before my TS got destroyed. At that moment, I remembered reading that the ship, my ship, was supposed to jump to get away or something. Well, the ship did not jump, even though it was carrying around 10k Energy cells and had a jumpdrive installed... So I did some searching and found that I can set when it should jump =D... Ya, not so fast...

I looked at the command console and found nothing close to what I read. The best I got was the Advanced Jumpdrive configureation. I messed with it and had the game run on SATA once more. Nope. Ship still got destroyed. What I read was that I can set the Emergency Jump and have the ship jump at 75% shilds or so, well that is nowhere to be found. I guess MK3 traders get there own thing.

So my question is, how in the X universe do I give them emergency jump commands? I mean, my TS stood there with its drones for a good 2 to 3 minutes and did nothing, 50% hull 0% shields. It had over 10k Energy cells, whats it thinking?

With my ship getting destoyed and me having to put many millions into just one ship, I'm not making any profit. The 60 million I made is enough to get my other 4 ships back. I dont understand why they are not jumping to another sector when in danger. After doing all this searching on google, and reading guides, I'm getting a bit frustrated not understanding what is going on. Jumpdrive and MK3 together are around 6mill + the 5-200MJ shields which are around 750K each kind of starts hurting profits.


I will apriciate any help given, thank you.

[euclid]

Yes, Mk3 trades are sometimes a tad stupid. The advanced Mk3 trader script got rid of the most annoying things like

• going the shortest route - through a xenon sector
  emergency jump to the same sector where attacked
  after emergency jump returning to the same station without using jumpdrive

I'm not sure what happened in your case but try the improved mk3 trader and see if this happens again.


Cheers Euclid

[Vayde]

TS ships don't have the option to jump at a set shield level, it's normally for the larger ships in game.

If you equip your TS with lasers and fight command software they become even more dumb, (if that's possible) and actually try to fight there way out of trouble which ends up in destruction. The current set of trader scripts might have been fixed with AP 3.0 and MK3 traders may actually work as intended. Although from your description of your issue they still seem to be a bit off the mark.

However do not despair, there is indeed light at the end of the tunnel. Since gnasirator produced a new set of MK3 trader scripts I've never used the vanilla versions again. I've suffered minimal losses with upwards of 25 running around the universe in AP. If you are ok going modified then I would recommend installing his improved MK3 trader scripts. Another excellent option is OK Traders. Very easy to set up and have one of the best self preservation tactics that can be employed. They jump clear when targeted, not when attacked.

Several players have foregone the MK3 traders in favour of using other available methods and, there have been some excellent debates on this topic. I'm sure that more will be mentioned by other posters in due course.

For a quick fix remove all drones and fight command software from your traders and restart them. At least when attacked they should switch to flee mode.

Vayde

[andrewas]

I use EST, from the same author as CAG and CLS. Its smarter than the stock UT, not sure how it compares with more recent scripts though. It uses the same pilot skill system as CAG and CLS so its an alternative to setting up a training system for your pilots, instead you can set them loose in their TS and they make money in the meantime, then you re-assign them when you need a skilled pilot for a CLS route requiring jumpdrive, or a complex CAG that must be able to sell from the beginning.

There are a number of other scripts from Lucike which might be worth a look, while your at it.

[ajax34i]

Also, despite being called "Emergency Jump," there's a big difference between when YOU jump and when an NPC ship jumps.

You just pick a destination gate and count from 10; if the gate is in use you just fly around the traffic. Sometimes it's a big ship and you collide and die.

NPC ships are forced to wait in queue to use the gate. They go one by one and there's a queue. If the emergency jump script has picked a destination gate that is busy, it will wait in queue until it's cleared, and THEN it will initiate the jump. If whatever NPC is using the gate is just sitting there (broken script), or has a top speed of 2 m/s and barely moving off, your ship will wait FOREVER.

NPCs are governed by a script, and it's a simple script with a queue, and no exceptions are possible. Exceptions = crash to desktop.

The fix, if you're trying to save your ship without combat, could be to jump yourself to each of the possible exit gates 1 sector away and hope that your presence clears the bottleneck.

[Threesixtyci]

Level 8 Universe Traders are too dumb to survive. I suggest not ever making them Universe Traders, but if you must then wait until they are at least 12's; waiting until they are 20's would be best. I'm pretty sure they don't use emergency jump until they are in the teens. or maybe at Level 12?

Best to just keep them as Sector traders and you'll lose less MK3's. There are no real restrictions as UT's so they often end up traversing Xenon Sectors or meeting up with a Q.

Think the max level that a sector can level up to is 20, but they extend there jump range every 2 levels after level 6. But to make use of the extra jump range you have to reissue the sector trader command.

So, basically you tether them to a home sector... and keep their jump range one shorter than the closest hostel sector. Doing this helps with two MK3 problems. For their survivability, and to keep them from competing with one another.

[pref]

Don't use Universe Traders, keep them as Sector traders and you'll lose less MK3's. think the max level that a sector can level up to is 20, but they extend there jump range every 2 levels after level 6. But to make use of the extra jump range you have to reissue the sector trader command.

So, basically you tether them to a home sector... and keep their jump range one shorter than the closest hostel sector. Doing this helps with two MK3 problems. For their survivability, and to keep them from competing with one another.

These things still happen in AP? Just sent 30-something UTs on their way in hopes they will not die so quick as in TC. Should i start reassigning them to LT trade because they will visit blacklisted sectors?

[Threesixtyci]

I haven't played much of AP, so can't really say. But MK3's scripting is likely unmodified in AP. The main problem with their survivability is that Level 8's have none (think it's mainly due to them being short of fighter drones), you really should at least wait until they are 14's or 20's, mainly due to their trading restrictions until then. But, by then you'll likely find that they do just as good as long range sector traders than as an UT.

I think the UT script is still unchanged from it's introduction in X2...
So, the leveling abilities are likely the same:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=55213

Main thing that kills UT's is this quote from the link above:

Code: Select all

In such emergencies the pilot will try to escape to the nearest station or use the jump drive for an emergency jump to get away from the danger zone. A Universe Trader will never head for systems that have Khaak present - so you'll have to make sure the Khaak don't block all the trade routes of your ships. Xenon and Pirates are NOT considered lethal enemies which makes them the most common threat for your Traders obviously. 

In that only Khaak are avoided, and not Xenon or Xenon sectors.... nor pirates. And with X3:TC/AP throwing out more powerful ships into the universe based on your fighter ranking... the Universe gets very dangerous for one lowly, rogue TS ship.

Sector Traders being able to jump wasn't introduced until X3:TC, I think. So, kinda made UT's overkill, in my opinion. A UT is more likely to run into trouble than a tethered one, regardless.

[Hiper-Boy]

Wow, thank you all for comenting and helping me out, thank you.

I did not mention that my traders are level 25. I started UT at 8, however, they are getting picked off at level 25. Yes, most of them make it to 25 and just die off. My very first trader is a good example as it lasted me 2 days without problem, pure luck I tell you, and just died off when it got into a fight...

Vayde, you mention somthing about a scripted MK3, it gnasirator the one I should serch for? EDIT: Ok, found the individual and his script, I will download and try it out, thank you!

andrewas, I do not understand what the acronyms stand for. EST, CAG and CLS.

Threesixtyci, is that the scrips that is part of the X3AP Bonus Pack?

Mods I use are mention at the top of my first post. X3AP Bonus Pack is one of those, and I dont know if MK3 is part of it. If anyone has got a direct link to a modified MK3 that does the job way better please post it. Thank you, and thank you all for helping me out. =)

Sorry for late reply, it was very late when I started the post.


EDIT:
So what I have read from the modifed MK3 I have to say that I am impresed. I have yet to try it, which I will do in a moment, but from what I am reading the script looks like it will to its job and more.


MK3 Improvement Reloaded: (Thank to Vayde for mentioning it)
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=314455

[Nanook]

Part of your problem is XRM. It's a nastier universe than vanilla, and your traders will have a harder time surviving.

Trade Command Software MK3 is built into the game, not part of the bonus pack. The script that was mentioned is a third party one that you can find in the S&M forum.

Running SETA for extended periods of time is almost a guarantee that you'll lose traders no matter what.

Finally, if you want to know what the common game acronyms mean, check my sig. There's a link to the FAQ, which is your friend.

[Hiper-Boy]

Part of your problem is XRM. It's a nastier universe than vanilla, and your traders will have a harder time surviving.

I would agree with you if I did not watch my own ship take its time fighting. Like I said in my first post, it took 2-3 minutes for it to die and it did nothing, however, I appreciate you replying, and yes, XRM is harsher.



I looked at the FAQ's and saw that a TL is even biger? Does that mean I should use a TL instead for trading =D?

[Nanook]

Part of your problem is XRM. It's a nastier universe than vanilla, and your traders will have a harder time surviving.

I would agree with you, if I did not watch my own ship take its time fighting. Like I said in my first post, it took 2-3 minutes for it to die and it did nothing, however, I appreciate you replying, and yes, XRM is harsher.

That doesn't happen in in vanilla, as a rule. A properly equipped UT will deploy drones and jump almost immediately. You really should be asking most of these kinds of questions in the XRM thread in S&M, since most people here won't be able to give useful answers. XRM is that different.

Let me ask you one question. Do your MK3's have Fight Command Software MKII installed? Without it, it won't deploy drones which helps it escape. In fact, contrary to what was said above, both fight command softwares and a weapon will help your trader, and will not make it stand and fight.

[Hiper-Boy]

Let me ask you one question. Do your MK3's have Fight Command Software MKII installed? Without it, it won't deploy drones which helps it escape. In fact, contrary to what was said above, both fight command softwares and a weapon will help your trader, and will not make it stand and fight.

Yes, I do have MKII Fight Command installed, and the freighters do drop the drones they also use the 2 turrets they have to fight off ships. Before I read a guide on trading all I was doing was equiping them with guns, and they did the job. The "My property" window would start to flash, I would click on the "look at sector" and see my ship getting attacked by 1 pirate which would be killed off by my ship.

After reading the guide, I equied them with MKI driods, not knowing that they would already do that on their own at a correct level. So they also use drones as well, at least I know they do because the proprety window lights up with drones.

The problem is they do not jump to safety and they stand around trying to take on the attacker, thats it. Why would XRM be causing the ships to not jump when it takes them longer to die then to jump? However, I think this question might have been ensured by ajax34i, he says that the ships wait in a queue, waiting for an open spot to jump.


EDIT:
I want to say thank you to Vayde and everyone else. The new MK3 script seems to be doing its job very well. Looks like the problem is solved thanks to the script. Again, thank you everyone for you help.

[Threesixtyci]

Threesixtyci, is that the scrips that is part of the X3AP Bonus Pack?

No that script is for X2, MK3 was a mod back then by the looks of it. Developers liked it so much that they added it as part of the game in X3.

[Nanook]

...However, I think this question might have been ensured by ajax34i, he says that the ships wait in a queue, waiting for an open spot to jump...

Perhaps, but doubtful, especially if it's happening to numerous traders. Generally, it's only the bigships that have extended waits in a jump queue. That's because only a single big ship can enter/exit a gate at a time and they're quite slow.

Small ships can usually just jump without waiting since multiple small ships are able to enter/exit a gate at once, or at least very quickly. If you've ever observed TS's leaving a gate, you'll notice that they do so at a much higher rate than their normal max speed.

If you're seeing a chronic problem, it's most likely something else. And as I said, you'd be wise to discuss this problem in the XRM thread. I doubt you're the first XRM player with this kind of issue.

[Vayde]

Hi Nanook,

your comments regarding my lack of knowledge, while pithy, have at least shaken me enough to look into this fact which I have long held onto.

I have always ran UT's & LT's with no guns in the sure knowledge that they would avoid combat and run. Having spent several hours trawling through MK3 threads on this and other forums I find your simple truth a revelation.

I wonder if you could explode another possible myth for me and tell me that MDM works on player ships OOS too?

Vayde

[andrewas]

andrewas, I do not understand what the acronyms stand for. EST, CAG and CLS.

CAG - Commercial AGent - a script by Lucike which allows a freighter to intelligently serve its home base by buying and selling resources.

CLS - Commodity Logistics Software - another script by Lucike which allows a freighter to do many interesting things. Programming routes to move resources between your complexes, buying up all of a given ware in the entire universe.

Both of those are in the bonus pack, I assumed you already be familiar with the CAG at least. There are more recent versions in the S&M forum, since you're already modified no sense in sticking with the versions egosoft signed.

EST - Economy and Supply Trader - is yet another script by Lucike, this one replaces the UT/ST of the original game. I prefer the EST but I haven't look at the alternatives recently, so if you have a solution that works, stick with it.