After getting into an extremely dicey dogfight with a trio of PBG-armed pirate Novas, I realize that I'm gonna need to move up from my reliable Zephyrus to a proper ship, specifically a heavy M6 design.
In the past (and it's been a few years), I've always just snagged a Skiron and was content, but on this playthrough I'd like to try something different. Note that My Terran rep sucks, so snagging a Terran design's gonna be tricky enough that I'm not willing to consider it as a short-term goal.
Right now I'm playing a sort of professional combat salvager, poking around for station defense missions or ambushing pirate convoys and I'd like this to continue. I've narrowed down my choices to three of M6's and I'd like some folks who have had experience with them to chime in if possible and give me some feedback and please remember that the last time I played X3 it was before they gave corvettes that huge weapons reactor boost.
The OTAS Skiron: I'm familiar with this design and quite comfortable popping M7's with it (even without missiles). It turns like a brick, though, and can't mount PBE's, which I have come to quite like as a fighter capping tool.
The Teladi Heavy Osprey: On paper, at least, this looks great. It's tough, has great weapons compatibility, and can mount PBEs. On the downside it's got a pretty bad top speed and turns like a melancholy brick. How much of a problem is it's 92 mps speed gonna hurt my ability to hit transports or pirate trading convoys?
The Argon Heavy Centaur: Less shields, but more hull than a Skiron. It's slower, but turns better. It's got excellent turret coverage, but can't mount PBEs. It CAN mount PBGs, which is neat. Is the potential reduction in pilot bails gonna be offset by its ability to engage more targets compared to the Osprey? Does the loss of 200 mj of shielding make the ship feel noticeably squishier compared to the Skiron?
I am a man possessed of curiosities and it will be some time before I can sit in front of my computer to play. It'd be nice to have made up my mind by then. What are your experiences?
M6 Question [AP 3.0]
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M6 Question [AP 3.0]
Last edited by mistervec on Thu, 26. Sep 13, 00:38, edited 1 time in total.
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AgamemnonArgon
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Skiron is a good Corvette, and I have used it for years.
Great shields and good weapons choice.
Teladi Heavy Osprey, is a yes, but slow and with good shields and nice options for weapons.
Heavy Centaur is always a good buy. I like HEPT with PAC and it does a nice job, even though it may not be as tough as the first two.
Since it is always a hard choice, I usually buy plenty of all three, and have them Patrol in groups of two up to four in each type, depending on threat level per Sector.
Great shields and good weapons choice.
Teladi Heavy Osprey, is a yes, but slow and with good shields and nice options for weapons.
Heavy Centaur is always a good buy. I like HEPT with PAC and it does a nice job, even though it may not be as tough as the first two.
Since it is always a hard choice, I usually buy plenty of all three, and have them Patrol in groups of two up to four in each type, depending on threat level per Sector.
Argon Patriot and Battlemaster
Peace - Through Superior Firepower
Peace - Through Superior Firepower
OOS the Skiron or the Hv. Centaur (dunno about PAC). An M7 (CFA would do the trick) maybe.
IS, I realize that you can dogfight a M7 with a M6, but bailing three M3?
I wouldn`t know how this should work. Sure, the shielding protects you from the PBGs, but the abysmal steering makes dogfighting them too difficult.
This means you wouldn`t be able to sit behind each one of them separately and finish them off quickly. If that means prolonged combat and they DON`T have PBGs, say they have HEPT or PBE, any combat scenario will be difficult.
Maybe the Hv. Centaur with MDs(in turrets) would have an edge, but I always avoided these, not being sure as to how it affects bailing.
I would dismiss your unfortunate encounter as a fluke and stay with a faithful M3.
Then again, maybe you pack 8 HEPTs frontal and finish them in one pass and I am totally wrong. Since the M6 cannot pack SWGs any more, I am off the class. Anyway, dogfighting with a M3 is more fun.
IS, I realize that you can dogfight a M7 with a M6, but bailing three M3?
I wouldn`t know how this should work. Sure, the shielding protects you from the PBGs, but the abysmal steering makes dogfighting them too difficult.
This means you wouldn`t be able to sit behind each one of them separately and finish them off quickly. If that means prolonged combat and they DON`T have PBGs, say they have HEPT or PBE, any combat scenario will be difficult.
Maybe the Hv. Centaur with MDs(in turrets) would have an edge, but I always avoided these, not being sure as to how it affects bailing.
I would dismiss your unfortunate encounter as a fluke and stay with a faithful M3.
Then again, maybe you pack 8 HEPTs frontal and finish them in one pass and I am totally wrong. Since the M6 cannot pack SWGs any more, I am off the class. Anyway, dogfighting with a M3 is more fun.
I don't think I understand what you mean.
Yeah, you can "dogfight" 3 M3's in a Corvette. I fought three in a TM yesterday without the aid of missiles. It was a very close thing, mind, but I did win. Taking down an M7 without missiles isn't too hard, either, provided you can dish out enough damage and take a few solid hits.
How?
Luck, turrets, big shields, and good piloting.
A Zephyrus with two PACs in its nose mount can strip the shields off of a pirate M3 in pretty short order if you get the drop on them. Rolling up on the first of my targets, I was able to pop his shields and get him to bail before the other two really started reacting. That's luck.
After that, it's just a matter of keeping your turrets wailing away on your primary target and keeping your ship close enough to discourage the guy you're chasing from turning around. You can do this with a Zephyrus if your target is an M3 because you're generally faster and, after they start taking hull damage, almost as maneuverable. That's how I fought guy number two.
Most of the damage I took came from guy 3 who was able to semi-reliably hit my constantly jinking, ever-spiraling transport. Guy 2 occasionally managed to get his nose pointed at me and help out. Still, guy 2 went down after a bit and, without anyone to distract me, guy 3 followed suit a few minutes later.
In a Skiron, which has the juice to keep 6 PRGs going pretty much indefinitely, this is much, much easier. People forget that, with a corvette, you don't need to point your nose at what you're fighting to handle fighters. You just need to be able to keep them in the much wider firing arcs of your turrets and, the more turrets you have, the more fighters you can engage simultaneously.
Maneuverability or lack thereof isn't as much of a problem as you'd think, anyway, even when trying to keep your nose on target. The further away something is, the less you have to turn to keep it on target. Firing your strafing thrusters to boost you away from whatever you're turning towards helps a lot.
Yeah, you can "dogfight" 3 M3's in a Corvette. I fought three in a TM yesterday without the aid of missiles. It was a very close thing, mind, but I did win. Taking down an M7 without missiles isn't too hard, either, provided you can dish out enough damage and take a few solid hits.
How?
Luck, turrets, big shields, and good piloting.
A Zephyrus with two PACs in its nose mount can strip the shields off of a pirate M3 in pretty short order if you get the drop on them. Rolling up on the first of my targets, I was able to pop his shields and get him to bail before the other two really started reacting. That's luck.
After that, it's just a matter of keeping your turrets wailing away on your primary target and keeping your ship close enough to discourage the guy you're chasing from turning around. You can do this with a Zephyrus if your target is an M3 because you're generally faster and, after they start taking hull damage, almost as maneuverable. That's how I fought guy number two.
Most of the damage I took came from guy 3 who was able to semi-reliably hit my constantly jinking, ever-spiraling transport. Guy 2 occasionally managed to get his nose pointed at me and help out. Still, guy 2 went down after a bit and, without anyone to distract me, guy 3 followed suit a few minutes later.
In a Skiron, which has the juice to keep 6 PRGs going pretty much indefinitely, this is much, much easier. People forget that, with a corvette, you don't need to point your nose at what you're fighting to handle fighters. You just need to be able to keep them in the much wider firing arcs of your turrets and, the more turrets you have, the more fighters you can engage simultaneously.
Maneuverability or lack thereof isn't as much of a problem as you'd think, anyway, even when trying to keep your nose on target. The further away something is, the less you have to turn to keep it on target. Firing your strafing thrusters to boost you away from whatever you're turning towards helps a lot.
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Just curious; Why is the Hyperion Vanguard not on Your list? Since it can dock 2 ships you also get a slight carrier capasity. Seems to fit the gameplaystyle you like well. Cap ship, dock it With Your hype, get another one, jump to a shipyard and unload, rince and repeat. And the Hyperion is an absolute beast in combat.
At -10m/s its pretty easy to confuse enemies and strafe-roll away from fire while having a near 100% hit ratio on bigger targets.
When it gets dense, speed up quick and start from another location.
I had the Skiron in this game just until i could spacewalk the Hype and then the Panther finally. Skiron can fit IDs, so it wont matter if the first ship i found has defences and it has nice shielding, speed and weapon gen. It can't turn - that was my biggest problem.
When it gets dense, speed up quick and start from another location.
I had the Skiron in this game just until i could spacewalk the Hype and then the Panther finally. Skiron can fit IDs, so it wont matter if the first ship i found has defences and it has nice shielding, speed and weapon gen. It can't turn - that was my biggest problem.
Hyperion Vanguard M6 - you have to capture it but it's well worth the effort, especially if you overtune its speed and rotation with Pandora crates. The ship is a favorite because:
- It can dock 2 M3's, or an M3 and M5, for extra convenience and versatility.
- It has a huge weapon compatibility, including flamethrowers, and a set of 8 of those up close and personal will take out M7's easily and M2's if you manage to sit in the M2's blind spots.
- It corners well enough that you can dogfight in it, and actually you just have to keep it pointed at the enemy fighters and its 4 front HEPT turrets take care of any threat.
- It can tractor beam and mobile mining device, and because it has docking ports, any drones you use will automatically return to its cargo when recalled.
- It has a huge cargo hold, and a huge missile compatibility, including the nicely overpowered Terran Wraith missile. You can carry multiple sets of missiles, from anti-M3 to anti-capital to station-busters like the Firestorm, and it has enough cargo to shoot missiles forever.
- It can dock 2 M3's, or an M3 and M5, for extra convenience and versatility.
- It has a huge weapon compatibility, including flamethrowers, and a set of 8 of those up close and personal will take out M7's easily and M2's if you manage to sit in the M2's blind spots.
- It corners well enough that you can dogfight in it, and actually you just have to keep it pointed at the enemy fighters and its 4 front HEPT turrets take care of any threat.
- It can tractor beam and mobile mining device, and because it has docking ports, any drones you use will automatically return to its cargo when recalled.
- It has a huge cargo hold, and a huge missile compatibility, including the nicely overpowered Terran Wraith missile. You can carry multiple sets of missiles, from anti-M3 to anti-capital to station-busters like the Firestorm, and it has enough cargo to shoot missiles forever.
On second thought top speed might be less important then rudder (since you can just hit the booster if you really need a little peace in a fight).
I remember Skirons turn rate becoming pretty annoying ater a while.
Maybe this applies for shielding, if you don't mind paying closer attention on it - so maybe i'd go for the Centaur.
But i did not use any of those ships for too long, so i dont have experience in this.
I remember Skirons turn rate becoming pretty annoying ater a while.
Maybe this applies for shielding, if you don't mind paying closer attention on it - so maybe i'd go for the Centaur.
But i did not use any of those ships for too long, so i dont have experience in this.
I am dead wrong is what you saying, isn`t it.I don't think I understand what you mean.
...
3 M3 with a TM? Cool! I didn`t even think of it. I thought you unloaded M3s.
See, I have flown the final fury mission to drop an AS, then scan station, with M6s two times. Both times, I was annihilated by x M5 + 1 M3 Khaak.
Then, I used it to fend off 3 pirates OOS. Failure, as i recall.
Later on, I fly kill missions with my M3, target is a M6 with M6 friends. I get behind the target spiralling, adjusting speed and, well shooting. It tries to turn around to no avail, I can turn faster. So we are circling around, it`s friends never hitting me except when the have PRGs or similar. After minutes it is over, rinse, repeat. So, I have little faith in the new M6s. I remember my first and only Skiron. It seemed huge, and steered like a sleeping cow.
But if the M3 never turns and has comparable speed... well then steering doesn`t matter, I guess.
I would be hard pressed with one M3 against three, but I have survived it many times.
At last, let me say sorry for my neewbiness and put up with me, until my desktop is repaired somewhere around next week. Have yet to even start a plot in AP.
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Earth Ultimatum IV.
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From those three, only Skiron is actually useful. Others are useless garbage.
I really recommend Split Dragon (not heavy). I had great fun with it.
And then, of course, Katana is a great ship (fast, unlimited energy, powerful shields, cargo space, its quite easy to wipe out a whole xenon sector with it) but your reputation with Terrans sucks.
I really recommend Split Dragon (not heavy). I had great fun with it.
And then, of course, Katana is a great ship (fast, unlimited energy, powerful shields, cargo space, its quite easy to wipe out a whole xenon sector with it) but your reputation with Terrans sucks.
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Threesixtyci
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I usually just end up using the Vidar (X3:TC)...
Mainly, because it's free. With the 3 free M5's and that free M3, donating all their guns to it. But, I also stay away from combat missions, because I don't like/want my fighter rank to skyrocket. Mainly, just use it to remove annoying Xenon and Khaak ships and for plot missions.
I tend to spend most of my time in TP's, usually an Iguana Vanguard. Although, I like the Angel, too (XL hold = laser tower stationary drone system... well in TC, anyways.)
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I don't really have a plan for AP, being I haven't really played it, yet. But i tend to favor the Hydra. It's overall weak, but I just like having an Ion D for easier boarding and to just mess around with. Otherwise, I'd go with a Dragon. Springblossom makes for a good M5 alternative, though.
Mainly, because it's free. With the 3 free M5's and that free M3, donating all their guns to it. But, I also stay away from combat missions, because I don't like/want my fighter rank to skyrocket. Mainly, just use it to remove annoying Xenon and Khaak ships and for plot missions.
I tend to spend most of my time in TP's, usually an Iguana Vanguard. Although, I like the Angel, too (XL hold = laser tower stationary drone system... well in TC, anyways.)
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I don't really have a plan for AP, being I haven't really played it, yet. But i tend to favor the Hydra. It's overall weak, but I just like having an Ion D for easier boarding and to just mess around with. Otherwise, I'd go with a Dragon. Springblossom makes for a good M5 alternative, though.
Last edited by Threesixtyci on Thu, 26. Sep 13, 20:43, edited 2 times in total.
Oh the Hype!
Boarding is on the agenda, but at the moment my fight rank outstrips what I feel I can reasonably engage with my sturdy Zeph or horrible old Xenon L.
This means either purchasing a better craft quickly (or salvaging one) or diverting some of my fundage/time to acquiring a TP, some decent marines, and regional sat-net for picking targets. I'm pretty sure I have a good stockpile of drones at least.
I'm not actually all that skilled at spacewalk-boarding, so perhaps now is a good time to try it out.
Any-hoo, thanks for all the feedback so far. It does help.
Boarding is on the agenda, but at the moment my fight rank outstrips what I feel I can reasonably engage with my sturdy Zeph or horrible old Xenon L.
This means either purchasing a better craft quickly (or salvaging one) or diverting some of my fundage/time to acquiring a TP, some decent marines, and regional sat-net for picking targets. I'm pretty sure I have a good stockpile of drones at least.
I'm not actually all that skilled at spacewalk-boarding, so perhaps now is a good time to try it out.
Any-hoo, thanks for all the feedback so far. It does help.
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Spoiler
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Not sure if you have started the AP story or not, but early on you do get a centaur for free (mine came with marines). Also if you do plan on doing the story keep that L for later you'll need it.
I ruled out the H. Nemesis on account of it's tiny, tiny cargo bay and the dragon because it only has one turret and I'm getting a lot of missile spam. If I'm going to build up a support fleet anyway, then the Nemesis is worth revisiting, I'm certain.
I had forgotten about the free centaur, but did remember the need for a Xenon L (that's why I kept it and, eventually, started using it).
The Xenon L is not a great fighter at this point, either. Missile spam means constantly disengaging from my primary target to pop the missile and its weapon's reactor can't keep up with 6 IRE's let alone a normal M3 armament. I really should keep one of those pirate M3's I keep popping, but I'm holding out for a Yaki ship.
I had forgotten about the free centaur, but did remember the need for a Xenon L (that's why I kept it and, eventually, started using it).
The Xenon L is not a great fighter at this point, either. Missile spam means constantly disengaging from my primary target to pop the missile and its weapon's reactor can't keep up with 6 IRE's let alone a normal M3 armament. I really should keep one of those pirate M3's I keep popping, but I'm holding out for a Yaki ship.
General Electric #119T53 Toaster with Stapled-On celeron chipset. 256 megs of toast. Graphics powered by a bit of cardboard with "graffiks" written on the side by a small child.
Missile spam is not so much of a problem in a Dragon because of its speed, though--172 m/s is faster than a lot of the more destructive missiles, and you really don't need to worry about a few Wasp hits when you've got 400MJ of shielding. The only time missile spam should ever be a problem is if you're going up against M8s or M7Ms, which doesn't happen all that often (and which would be a level of missile spam that no amount of turrets would help you much with, in any case).
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firestorm79
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firestorm79
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