Hi all, I'm going totally mad here...I've played all the way through terran conflict and am now working on AP. I've got hundreds of hours into this game but in all my time, I cannot for the life of me, get my CAGs to sell silicon wafers. silicon wafers is the only commodity that I've had this issue with.
I run exclusively self sufficient complexes, and almost all run a surplus of silicon wafers. While the other commodities are kept between 10% and 20% as I've specified in my trade duties, silicon is always full. As you can imagine, this is a bit of a problem for the 100,000,000+ Credit silicon megaplexes I've built, since after such an investment they don't make any money.
The only way I can seem to get them to sell is to use "sell ware for best price" while requires micromanagement because they will sell down to zero and stop your crystal fab, and don't have any form of blacklisting so they wander into hostile space.
Does anyone know of a solution to this?
CAGs don't sell silicon wafers in complex
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Berserkenstein
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Sun, 30. May 10, 04:28
What are you trying to get your CAGs to sell to?
CAGs aren't meant to sell to your own stations, they are your salesmen that sell to NPCs for profit.
I personally never sell silicon for profit, as it is a valuable resource that requires a lot of cargo space to haul.
If you really want to use it to make profit, manufacture tech products such as microchips which are high value and the market is almost never saturated, or to make drones which are incredibly useful and sell reasonably well.
I prefer to use silicon to make crystals, they require only 4 cargo units and you will always need them for self-sustained complexes. They also sell incredibly well to boot.
CAGs aren't meant to sell to your own stations, they are your salesmen that sell to NPCs for profit.
I personally never sell silicon for profit, as it is a valuable resource that requires a lot of cargo space to haul.
If you really want to use it to make profit, manufacture tech products such as microchips which are high value and the market is almost never saturated, or to make drones which are incredibly useful and sell reasonably well.
I prefer to use silicon to make crystals, they require only 4 cargo units and you will always need them for self-sustained complexes. They also sell incredibly well to boot.
I'll see you on the other side!
Yes,
maybe use Xadrian (in my sig) to find out what high tech stations you can add to your complex, inorder to use up that extra silicon.
There are mods that can ease this situation, but I do not recomend mods for anyone who has not played the whole set of plots at least one once.
So if you are ready for mods/scripts check out the s/m forum and the XDoownloads link in my sig.
maybe use Xadrian (in my sig) to find out what high tech stations you can add to your complex, inorder to use up that extra silicon.
There are mods that can ease this situation, but I do not recomend mods for anyone who has not played the whole set of plots at least one once.
So if you are ready for mods/scripts check out the s/m forum and the XDoownloads link in my sig.
ISTR that there are settings for the CAG about how and whether they will trade in intermediates. I also think you should be able to find somewhere you can set the silicon as an intermediate so that the CAG will trade in it.
I only ever build open loops though so I've not looked for any of this, but I'm pretty sure I read about it somewhere
Next time I'll try to be even more vague....
I only ever build open loops though so I've not looked for any of this, but I'm pretty sure I read about it somewhere
Next time I'll try to be even more vague....
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Darth_Wayner
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Sun, 20. Jan 13, 01:01
Thanks for the help all, but as I've mentioned, I'm aware how complexes function and that CAGs don't sell stations.
My problem is that I can even set my CAGs to "salesman", reduce the wares list to only silicon, and sell percentage low and they just sit there. They will sell all other wares in the complex if I allow them to.
I wonder if silicon is treated as a resource and is not sellable?
Anyway, I think you've presented a really good option, which is to use all of the silicon in my own products instead of selling it.
My problem is that I can even set my CAGs to "salesman", reduce the wares list to only silicon, and sell percentage low and they just sit there. They will sell all other wares in the complex if I allow them to.
I wonder if silicon is treated as a resource and is not sellable?
Anyway, I think you've presented a really good option, which is to use all of the silicon in my own products instead of selling it.
It won't be a resource by default if there are silicon mines in the complex. If Mk2s sell it, then it cannot be a resource.
Since it's a large closed plex it should be listed as an intermediate by default. You can check this and even change it if desired or it helps.
I assume when you say they don't do anything they are sitting on Standby? A bit of a long shot but maybe try reducing prices a bit and increasing the range.
The advice to turn it into something less bulky is good. However if you have massive silicon production it is easily possible to keep the universe abundantly supplied and turn it into other things to sell. If you increase the range of the plex to cover the whole universe, you should be able to keep 5-10 large SFs constantly selling. It's relatively slow profit, but it is consistent profit. If you can get your CAGs to actually ship the stuff that is...
Since it's a large closed plex it should be listed as an intermediate by default. You can check this and even change it if desired or it helps.
I assume when you say they don't do anything they are sitting on Standby? A bit of a long shot but maybe try reducing prices a bit and increasing the range.
The advice to turn it into something less bulky is good. However if you have massive silicon production it is easily possible to keep the universe abundantly supplied and turn it into other things to sell. If you increase the range of the plex to cover the whole universe, you should be able to keep 5-10 large SFs constantly selling. It's relatively slow profit, but it is consistent profit. If you can get your CAGs to actually ship the stuff that is...
Berserkenstein you just pushed one of my buttons on this so I am going to have to waste you a bit. Nothing personal even if it feels that way.
OP BTW this bonus pack CAG thread http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=275924 or this older CAG thread http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=224352 should help. CAG can be complicated to configure properly to sell intermediary goods. I do not really like closed loop complexes as I find them inefficient in general. Though CAG can do a great job improving the functionality. Open loop has always seemed more straight forward to me. That being said the best way to setup CAG to deal with intermediate products is to have 2 CAGs or more likely 2 groups of CAGs. One to purchase resources when below some specific stocking level say 35% and the other group to sell resources down to some level, say 25%. The reason is to get the sellers to clear stock and the buyers to drain the NPC resources. It will not generate maximum profits but it should work reasonable well.
If this was open loop then it is easy. Silicon would be generated at a mine complex so CAG works fine with the defaults. You may want to tick the jump drive on, eventually your CAG will use it. Setup exception lists for sectors like earth, xenon and yaki space.
I use Yaki space a my private reserve for shafting, er that is researching creative uses of CLS2. Saying I shaft the Yaki left, right, and center would be a bit crass. Hey ignoring a group that happily exterminates all my competition is anti capitalist. Thats me a regular profit patriot.
In the case of self selling complexes like 1mj shields and microchips you do the same as above with the CAG but tick the CAG defaults from Trader to Buyer so they never sell. The "do not sell" or "sell with caution" products like crystals you set the CAG up with a black list for the product or products du jour and then breakout CLS1/2 depending on what you are doing, "do not sell" CLS1 and/or "sell with caution" CLS2. To maintain stocking levels for efficient functionality (non stalling) use CLS1 to load your complexes with 20-30% for resources and let the complex CAGs skim the NPC fabs for good deals and of course sell the appropriate products like Bofu or Delaxian Wheat.
A bit of fun with numbers. Using a max cargo Mistral SF you have a nominal 14400 cargo space which is 800 silicon wafers. The max value of the cargo is 620,800 and the minimum cargo value is 185,600. If you sell that cargo to a large NPC owned crystal plant and then purchase that cargo at minimum price from a large NPC owned silicon mine. You would make a gross profit of 620,800-185,600=435,200 counters. Explain to me why you feel the OP or I should not make this profit? Not only that but stuffing that large NPC crystal fab full of resources will make it generate crystals efficiently. Which makes NPC crystals cheaper. Which means you can do just about the same thing by purchasing those crystal cheap and burning them in your SPP and selling your crystals to NPC SPP for a profit.
The only way the player can sell crystals at maximum price is to player built but NPC owned SPP. You do this with build missions. The maximum number of crystals you can sell to an XL SPP is 3320*1936=6,427,520 a very tidy sum and highly recommended. Purchasing crystals at minimum from the NPC crystal fab and burning them in your SPP costs 3320*1432=4,754,240. Making you a very tidy 1,673,280 in gross profits on the exchange, highly recommended. Now why buy NPC resources? The answer is simple. Pulling resources out of the NPC economy makes them scarce and more valuable. Making all your resources more valuable and therefore more profitable. Other than the above example (best case) and its lesser brethren. Crystal can be sold as a secondary resource for a max of 1801 counters but only half the number. So 1660*1801=2,989,660 not bad. Replacing them is going to run you 1660*1432=2,377,120 for a gross profit of 612,540 hmm. Interesting silicon looks a bit better now does it not?
One last bit. If you are putting enough pressure on any NPC resource. You should be able to sell that resource at or near maximum price. In the case of crystals. You can reduce the relative cost by the amount you make selling the crystal plant the necessary resources to function. In point of fact the maximum cost to manufacture an argon crystal is 1885 counters.
That means that NPC crystal fabs will sell at a loss. For all practical purposes you can buy NPC crystals for less than nothing. Last time I checked that is less than the zero you claim to be paying in your closed loop.
Two final parting tidbits and I promise to stop, for now. It is not possible to make argon 1mj shields at a loss, ever. The reason is that the maximum you can spend to make one is a bit less than 4150 counters. Which is virtually impossible to do. The alternative getting the NPC to pay maximum cost is actually quite possible though a bit tedious. The minimum selling price is 4154 and the player should never be selling them for less than 5191 counters, ever. It is actually much easier to make them at or near the minimum cost of 1398 counters. Which is the number people should be looking at when they start talking about building them in a closed loop. Microchips like 1mj shields will self sell right off the factory floor, at one less than average price. Making it the most profitable way to sell them.
If you want to know more about the numbers I am dishing out check out this http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=227483
Have fun. Your game your way.
OK this is perfectly correct and probably where you should have stopped. I would have included a link to the forum thread regarding CAG. Mentioned that you need to make sure your CAG pilot is at a level that will allow him to sell. Mentioned that the configuration for getting them to sell more prolifically may need a bit of tweaking for best results.Berserkenstein wrote:What are you trying to get your CAGs to sell to?
CAGs aren't meant to sell to your own stations, they are your salesmen that sell to NPCs for profit.
OP BTW this bonus pack CAG thread http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=275924 or this older CAG thread http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=224352 should help. CAG can be complicated to configure properly to sell intermediary goods. I do not really like closed loop complexes as I find them inefficient in general. Though CAG can do a great job improving the functionality. Open loop has always seemed more straight forward to me. That being said the best way to setup CAG to deal with intermediate products is to have 2 CAGs or more likely 2 groups of CAGs. One to purchase resources when below some specific stocking level say 35% and the other group to sell resources down to some level, say 25%. The reason is to get the sellers to clear stock and the buyers to drain the NPC resources. It will not generate maximum profits but it should work reasonable well.
If this was open loop then it is easy. Silicon would be generated at a mine complex so CAG works fine with the defaults. You may want to tick the jump drive on, eventually your CAG will use it. Setup exception lists for sectors like earth, xenon and yaki space.
I use Yaki space a my private reserve for shafting, er that is researching creative uses of CLS2. Saying I shaft the Yaki left, right, and center would be a bit crass. Hey ignoring a group that happily exterminates all my competition is anti capitalist. Thats me a regular profit patriot.
In the case of self selling complexes like 1mj shields and microchips you do the same as above with the CAG but tick the CAG defaults from Trader to Buyer so they never sell. The "do not sell" or "sell with caution" products like crystals you set the CAG up with a black list for the product or products du jour and then breakout CLS1/2 depending on what you are doing, "do not sell" CLS1 and/or "sell with caution" CLS2. To maintain stocking levels for efficient functionality (non stalling) use CLS1 to load your complexes with 20-30% for resources and let the complex CAGs skim the NPC fabs for good deals and of course sell the appropriate products like Bofu or Delaxian Wheat.
OK this is just silly. The only practical limitation to the amount of silicon a player has access to is the number of mobile miners the player is willing to deploy. In other words silicon like ore is an infinitely available resource. The bit about cargo space is nonsensical. Every capital and corvette weapon and shield in the game is larger than a silicon wafer should the OP ignore those also? You are correct about the valuable bit, which also means profitable. Forgoing a profit making opportunity is counter to the basic precepts of the X-series. The only way what you said makes sense is if it is a personal RP rule(s) you have decided on.Berserkenstein wrote:I personally never sell silicon for profit, as it is a valuable resource that requires a lot of cargo space to haul.
The player has the option to monopolize every resource in the game. There is absolutely no reason not to if you wish. You can make and sell all those at a profit and add satellites and silicon and anything else that needs silicon.Berserkenstein wrote:If you really want to use it to make profit, manufacture tech products such as microchips which are high value and the market is almost never saturated, or to make drones which are incredibly useful and sell reasonably well.
I prefer to use silicon to make crystals, they require only 4 cargo units and you will always need them for self-sustained complexes. They also sell incredibly well to boot.
A bit of fun with numbers. Using a max cargo Mistral SF you have a nominal 14400 cargo space which is 800 silicon wafers. The max value of the cargo is 620,800 and the minimum cargo value is 185,600. If you sell that cargo to a large NPC owned crystal plant and then purchase that cargo at minimum price from a large NPC owned silicon mine. You would make a gross profit of 620,800-185,600=435,200 counters. Explain to me why you feel the OP or I should not make this profit? Not only that but stuffing that large NPC crystal fab full of resources will make it generate crystals efficiently. Which makes NPC crystals cheaper. Which means you can do just about the same thing by purchasing those crystal cheap and burning them in your SPP and selling your crystals to NPC SPP for a profit.
The only way the player can sell crystals at maximum price is to player built but NPC owned SPP. You do this with build missions. The maximum number of crystals you can sell to an XL SPP is 3320*1936=6,427,520 a very tidy sum and highly recommended. Purchasing crystals at minimum from the NPC crystal fab and burning them in your SPP costs 3320*1432=4,754,240. Making you a very tidy 1,673,280 in gross profits on the exchange, highly recommended. Now why buy NPC resources? The answer is simple. Pulling resources out of the NPC economy makes them scarce and more valuable. Making all your resources more valuable and therefore more profitable. Other than the above example (best case) and its lesser brethren. Crystal can be sold as a secondary resource for a max of 1801 counters but only half the number. So 1660*1801=2,989,660 not bad. Replacing them is going to run you 1660*1432=2,377,120 for a gross profit of 612,540 hmm. Interesting silicon looks a bit better now does it not?
One last bit. If you are putting enough pressure on any NPC resource. You should be able to sell that resource at or near maximum price. In the case of crystals. You can reduce the relative cost by the amount you make selling the crystal plant the necessary resources to function. In point of fact the maximum cost to manufacture an argon crystal is 1885 counters.
That means that NPC crystal fabs will sell at a loss. For all practical purposes you can buy NPC crystals for less than nothing. Last time I checked that is less than the zero you claim to be paying in your closed loop.
Two final parting tidbits and I promise to stop, for now. It is not possible to make argon 1mj shields at a loss, ever. The reason is that the maximum you can spend to make one is a bit less than 4150 counters. Which is virtually impossible to do. The alternative getting the NPC to pay maximum cost is actually quite possible though a bit tedious. The minimum selling price is 4154 and the player should never be selling them for less than 5191 counters, ever. It is actually much easier to make them at or near the minimum cost of 1398 counters. Which is the number people should be looking at when they start talking about building them in a closed loop. Microchips like 1mj shields will self sell right off the factory floor, at one less than average price. Making it the most profitable way to sell them.
If you want to know more about the numbers I am dishing out check out this http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=227483
Have fun. Your game your way.
Last edited by paulhamm on Sun, 6. Oct 13, 23:19, edited 2 times in total.
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Masochisto
- Posts: 378
- Joined: Wed, 20. Jul 11, 16:20
@Darth_Wayner
I haven't encountered the exact problem you describe, but 99% of the time I design my complexes to run at a slight mineral deficit.
I have had decent success in recent games using CLS2 to sell Silicon, so if you cannot get a CAG to sell it off properly, you can try setting up a CLS2 seller.
Example waypoints
Silicon Complex:
Load Energy (500) -- optional jump fuel
Load Silicon Wafers upto (Max Cargo)
Unload Silicon Wafers upto 1000 -- optional step to avoid draining the complex empty.
*Generate Waypoints Sell at desired price and desired jump range.
I haven't encountered the exact problem you describe, but 99% of the time I design my complexes to run at a slight mineral deficit.
I have had decent success in recent games using CLS2 to sell Silicon, so if you cannot get a CAG to sell it off properly, you can try setting up a CLS2 seller.
Example waypoints
Silicon Complex:
Load Energy (500) -- optional jump fuel
Load Silicon Wafers upto (Max Cargo)
Unload Silicon Wafers upto 1000 -- optional step to avoid draining the complex empty.
*Generate Waypoints Sell at desired price and desired jump range.
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Threesixtyci
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Fri, 24. Oct 08, 02:57
Cags need to level up by buying resources, first. If you have a closed loop complex they will never level up.
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=275924
Need to be level Courier (one level up) to sell goods. So it needs to level up once before, it can level up from a closed complex.
And Has to be level trader (3 level ups) to sell intermediates. However, you can make an intermediate a final product via the Complex Settings if need be (details in that above link). This way it only needs to level up once to be able to sell your intermediate ore.
(link says you have to be docked to the complex or set a hot key to access the CAG station menus, but it's wrong. You can access it via the Orders menu from the Your Properties menu, as well. Just select a blank slot on the orders menu and you can get to all the station menu options there.)
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=275924
Need to be level Courier (one level up) to sell goods. So it needs to level up once before, it can level up from a closed complex.
And Has to be level trader (3 level ups) to sell intermediates. However, you can make an intermediate a final product via the Complex Settings if need be (details in that above link). This way it only needs to level up once to be able to sell your intermediate ore.
(link says you have to be docked to the complex or set a hot key to access the CAG station menus, but it's wrong. You can access it via the Orders menu from the Your Properties menu, as well. Just select a blank slot on the orders menu and you can get to all the station menu options there.)
I think the real problem the OP is running into is the lack places to sell silicon. In my experience, the game has an overabundance of NPC silicon mines, and most are at or near maximum inventory. That means that the player has to sell at a very low price to move their own silicon, since NPC traders are very good at keeping factories that need silicon supplied with it.
And this pertains directly to paulhamm's response to Berserkenstein. The real reason silicon is much better used for making tech products is because silicon is an extremely poor seller and tech products sell very well. So turning silicon into such end products is by far the best way to make profits from silicon.
And this pertains directly to paulhamm's response to Berserkenstein. The real reason silicon is much better used for making tech products is because silicon is an extremely poor seller and tech products sell very well. So turning silicon into such end products is by far the best way to make profits from silicon.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.
X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
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Threesixtyci
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Fri, 24. Oct 08, 02:57
I know that NPC stations are always full of the stuff, but I've also found that NPC ships just don't like trading the stuff, too.
I've always start off with Mine factories since they were pretty cheap starters (mainly the ore mines) and as long as a CAG was working sales, I never noticed my Silicon and Ore mines paused in production... they always seemed to be producing.
I've always start off with Mine factories since they were pretty cheap starters (mainly the ore mines) and as long as a CAG was working sales, I never noticed my Silicon and Ore mines paused in production... they always seemed to be producing.