1st person effects and cockpit

froggyluv · Post by **froggyluv** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 20:23

Hi there, brand new to this series which I only stumbled along while waiting for Star Citizen.

First off, the game looks gorgeous (Albion) and I was really looking forward to spending countless months exploring the universe. I see that there are no cockpits and somewhat of a lengthy debate about it though I don't fully understand why there isn't one.

This is after all, a starship exploratory and combat simulator, no? Why on earth is the view from a basically unhindered entity at the fore of the ship? Also why is there no sound at all to be heard ie..engine noises, click of comms, thrusters, engine clanks and creaks? It all feels so ghostly and I have the very likely fear of getting bored while flying around like a disembodied ghost.

This would be similar to a car game or a western in which neither car hood or horse head seen -your just ...moving. Very much an immersion killer for me. I know there is no sound in space but I most certainly hear explosions outside my ship as well as my engines from 3rd person -this makes little sense. 3rd person is not an option for me as it looks cartoonish and is non satisfying to pilot my ship with a giant graphic always at the dead center of my screen with space and space objects whipping around like the old Descent games.

I know there are mods but again, being new, that process is pretty daunting with lots of file renames etc.. I tried a total conversion mod but now the game won 't load.

Pretty disappointed to start my journey this way

Post by **Nanook** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 20:34

There were cockpits in games prior to X3 Reunion (X2, X-Tension, X-BTF). But there were a lot fewer ships in those games that needed individualized cockpits. According to the developers, they simply didn't have time to model individual cockpits for each and every ship in the X3 games, so they used a generic HUD with a camera view where the cockpit would've been.

As for engine sounds and such, do you really want some droning engine noise constantly in your ears? There is at least one mod for it, but I can tell you it gets really old really fast. Outside noises, such as ships and stations passing by and weapons fire, are considered to be generated by your ship's onboard computer for situational awareness reasons.

Hope that helps with your immersion issues a little bit. And welcome to the forums.

froggyluv · Post by **froggyluv** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 20:43

Thanks for response and greetings

Ok, I understand fully and am sympathetic to resource issues by the Devs -I am, afterall an Arma fan. I would actually be fine with a few prototype generic cockpits as I just don't like that face against the glass pane effect.

As for noise, just like getting in a new car or a new motorcycle, plane etc.. you want to 'feel' the ship. How does she sound, whats the force feel like, what would damage engine sound like? -I don't get annoyed at all by these effects and welcome them as part of the simulation experience. There is engine thruster sound in 3rd, why not have a muffled effect of that in 1st? There just needs a bit more audio/visual love for the 1st person effect as there is for the glorious looking space. Pretty sure I saw the upcoming title does have cockpits?

Anyhows, gonna try and enjoy the ride regardless.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 20:43

I always just figured a spacecraft, even a one man scout craft, was far more likely to rely on a video feed to a screen than on direct eyeballs to space via a window. Submarines are fully 'immersive' and they don't have a window in the nose either.

froggyluv · Post by **froggyluv** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 20:51

Timsup2nothin wrote:I always just figured a spacecraft, even a one man scout craft, was far more likely to rely on a video feed to a screen than on direct eyeballs to space via a window. Submarines are fully 'immersive' and they don't have a window in the nose either.

Yes but there still needs to be an 'effect' to it. For instance, Arma3 has submersibles and your correct in that you can't see very well straight thru a windshield so they offer PiP monitors to watch the goings on outside the craft with a digitized effect. I would be fine with that, as well as some interior noise that your are actually thrusting thru space with highly volatile fuel/engine etc..

Meaning the last option of just being a free camera moving should be just that -a last option.

Post by **Nanook** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 20:53

froggyluv wrote:... Pretty sure I saw the upcoming title does have cockpits?

Cockpit, singular. There's only one ship to fly.

Anyhows, gonna try and enjoy the ride regardless.

Oh, I think you will. There's so much to do in the game that you probably won't even notice the lack of engine noise after a while.

Threesixtyci · Post by **Threesixtyci** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 22:04

There are no sound waves in a vacuum...

Anyways, fighting and flying around isn't the full game. Once you have your own stations, you'll have plenty to manage while doing plot missions and random ones.

Anyway... if you get bored enough, flip to an external view and hit the 0 key on the keypad a few times. (unless flyby is binded to another key.... and I binded it to the 0/Ins key. Can't remember if the game had a director's view mode....if it does, I have forgotten how to activate it.)

Post by **Nanook** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 22:07

Threesixtyci wrote:There are no sound waves in a vacuum...

Except the pilot isn't in a vacuum in his/her own ship, so engine noises would presumably be audible unless they were muffled out somehow.

Threesixtyci · Post by **Threesixtyci** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 22:11

...and yet I can hear laser fire and explosions. Even in TV shows like Battlestar Galactica and SG1.

Firefly is the only one that did it right.

Latest Need for Speed Most Wanted doesn't have a dash view mode (nor manual gear box option)....
Game is still fun to play though.

Post by **Nanook** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 22:13

And here I thought we were talking about the X games.

As I mentioned above, outside sounds in the X games are presumed to be generated for situational awareness reasons by the onboard computer.

Threesixtyci · Post by **Threesixtyci** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 22:21

Being that you need a cargo life support system to transport passenger in all ships. Even the TP class has one installed, although by default. Wouldn't that be in a vacuum and would that stop the transfer of sound on a space craft?

I wouldn't know, never been in one, myself.

Not that the physics in this game are correct.... these ships should have unlimited max speed with the constant thrust/afterburner graphics they're showing. You also shouldn't be able to out run your own missile, being that the missile should have no friction and should be a combined speed of the ship that's firing them and their own thrust....

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Mon, 7. Oct 13, 23:16

If you really want to hear the engines, switch to an external view (F3 key). Pretty sure it's been the case in every X game that you couldn't hear the engines while sat in the cockpit, but can when in external view...slightly backwards, really, but as Nanook says, you rapidly cease to even notice.

Post by **Nanook** » Tue, 8. Oct 13, 02:09

Threesixtyci wrote:Being that you need a cargo life support system to transport passenger in all ships. Even the TP class has one installed, although by default. Wouldn't that be in a vacuum and would that stop the transfer of sound on a space craft?...

Actually, no. Sound waves travel very effectively, and generally better, through the structure of the ship. As long as the cockpit area is physically connected to the rest of the ship, you should be able to hear engine sounds.

Roenie · Post by **Roenie** » Tue, 8. Oct 13, 02:40

Threesixtyci wrote:Not that the physics in this game are correct.... these ships should have unlimited max speed with the constant thrust/afterburner graphics they're showing. You also shouldn't be able to out run your own missile, being that the missile should have no friction and should be a combined speed of the ship that's firing them and their own thrust....

This makes me wonder, which (indie) space game/sim created to date has the closest to reality space physics?

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Tue, 8. Oct 13, 03:12

Roenie wrote:
Threesixtyci wrote:Not that the physics in this game are correct.... these ships should have unlimited max speed with the constant thrust/afterburner graphics they're showing. You also shouldn't be able to out run your own missile, being that the missile should have no friction and should be a combined speed of the ship that's firing them and their own thrust....
This makes me wonder, which (indie) space game/sim created to date has the closest to reality space physics?

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say 'none'.

Vim Razz · Post by **Vim Razz** » Tue, 8. Oct 13, 08:02

Timsup2nothin wrote:
Roenie wrote:This makes me wonder, which (indie) space game/sim created to date has the closest to reality space physics?
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say 'none'.

But there is one! kerbal space program, hands down.

More X related, I've always liked to imagine that electromagnetic radiation from passing particle bursts or whatever interacts with ship shields in a way that causes the hull to vibrate, causing the sounds.

Pushing it? Sure. But I just find it to be a fun idea.

froggyluv · Post by **froggyluv** » Wed, 9. Oct 13, 19:33

Star Citizen looks to have decent physics..no?

Anyways i got the full compilation mod to work as well as cockpit and have to say this game is VERY in depth -and thats an understatement! Glad i bought it cause I needed something to take me out of my Arma 3 vortex.

Still, if there is still room for Rebirth suggestions -let there be interior sound that is especially ship specific. Even the old crisp, fuel burning cackle from Arcade Asteroids is a very satisfiyng effect.

Yes, I'm THAT old.

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Wed, 9. Oct 13, 22:57

froggyluv wrote:Star Citizen looks to have decent physics..no?

How would anyone know? I don't think they've shown any major gameplay footage yet, have they?

hisazul · Post by **hisazul** » Fri, 11. Oct 13, 02:45

pjknibbs wrote:If you really want to hear the engines, switch to an external view (F3 key). Pretty sure it's been the case in every X game that you couldn't hear the engines while sat in the cockpit, but can when in external view...slightly backwards, really, but as Nanook says, you rapidly cease to even notice.

This basically. And its fairly detailed too, if your engine is barely running its fairly quiet and when your are fuming turbo its pretty darn loud.
Also... spaceflies.

On side note... noise has no point. For one its just annoying after a few hundred hours... two... most ships aren't 1 man flying kettles. Anything past fighter class and even some fighter class ships are big enough that engine would be just too far away from cockpit and separated by too many sections that you would never heard it in the first place.

There is a reason why I also can't hear much of engine noise in my car...

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Fri, 11. Oct 13, 03:01

hisazul wrote: There is a reason why I also can't hear much of engine noise in my car...

Sound is vibration, and you don't run your car's engine very hard. Get a ride on a warship running a flank bell. It's not really 'engine noise', it's a sound you hear through the soles of your feet, and you can't get away from it short of going over the side.

And yeah, for game purposes it would be nothing but annoying. Some levels of 'realism' are best done without.

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1st person effects and cockpit

1st person effects and cockpit