Why not DX11

[SolidSnakeRUS]

Here's a question: if Egosoft had revealed the game with the same visuals that we're seeing now, but had told you it was created using DX11, would you have been able to tell they were lying?

No, because they can use DX11 without any dx11 effects.

[Halconnen]

That screenshot people keep reposting because it looks terrible does not even have -shadows- in it yet. It's obviously not recent, and more recent looks at similar scenes look -drastically- different.

Also nothing that looks garbage about that screenshot would in any way be meaningfully improved by sticking DX11 on it and doing nothing else about it.

Except force some small(?) fraction of the playerbase to move away from XP(?). Honestly, this reason people give doesn't make sense to me either, though. The RAM requirements pretty much enforce a 64-Bit OS anyway. And 64-Bit XP was terrible.

[SolidSnakeRUS]

DX11 brings few benefits, with the bonus of performing worse than DX9.
http://www.techspot.com/review/537-max- ... page6.html

It only means that max payne 3 game engine not perfect.

[Teleth]

DX11 brings few benefits, with the bonus of performing worse than DX9.
http://www.techspot.com/review/537-max- ... page6.html

It only means that max payne 3 game engine not perfect.

Apparently it is not the only engine either:
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/959814/is_ ... rison.html

Just look for the evidence yourself, or read the features of DX11. They're not worth re-tooling an entire engine for.

[Deleted User]

quite simply: because they did not need it.
thank god.

[SolidSnakeRUS]

DX11 brings few benefits, with the bonus of performing worse than DX9.
http://www.techspot.com/review/537-max- ... page6.html

It only means that max payne 3 game engine not perfect.

Apparently it is not the only engine either:
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/959814/is_ ... rison.html

Just look for the evidence yourself, or read the features of DX11. They're not worth re-tooling an entire engine for.

As you said DX9 is still good choice for X.
So, they make quite simple destructions, explosions and may be lo-res textures. Is this answer?
After release, we will see, what dear egosoft done, so we continue discussion later.

quite simply: because they did not need it.
thank god.

Of course, egosoft is developer, they can do what they want.
I wish them the best. Believe me.

[hisazul]

Someone here doesn't understand what tessellation does. While its sort of plausible to have an asteroid field tessellated and not having a pc on fire... its not resource plausible. And ships here are too complex for tessellation.

Frankly DX9 can look many times better and perform infinitly smoother then overhyped DX11 games. Far Cry is prime example of poor unoptimized engine... It's a hog that looks severely dated yet chews more resources then Crysis 3. To make a number example same set up that gets 30 fps on max in Far Cry 3 will sit on stable 60 fps in Crysis 3 while looking a few times better and have a lot more realistic models/shaders/fx/lighting.

Witcher 2 as someone already pointed out runs on DX9... it looks million times better then DX:HR which runs in DX11... tessellation doesn't make engine better nor does it make textures better. A proper engine with well made models and textures and proper lighting can look just as good on DX9 as it would on DX11. Its all about initial quality... DX11 simply offers more automated options that put less strain on rendering polys.

Also DX11 is much better off in scenarios where you see things reasonably close, which is not the case with Rebirth for the most part. If I remember right a dev said somewhere that if they later decide they want DX11 they will put that functionality in.

[High5]

Is it just me or does Rebirth lack the shininess of X3?
I really loved that reflective metal, here the colors look so cartoonishly plain

just compare to these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1bcWiiUUEU

[Nomadski]

Is it just me or does Rebirth lack the shininess of X3?
I really loved that reflective metal, here the colors look so cartoonishly plain

just compare to these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1bcWiiUUEU

We are the minority but I agree. Going to miss that Argon sheen. Some of the areas seem to be quite dark n moody, but I miss the starkness between light and dark in most of the new game's screenshots.

[Alci]

Tessellation makes low detailed 3d objects more complex.

it actually should make high detailed 3D models less complex in clever way based on scene.

And it would actually help a lot in X games as it could replace not-so-good LOD they are using (which shows very visible object details changes as you close up). It's way to much visible on videos.

[Umbru]

Bernd mentioned that they would look at upgrading the DX version when they start converting the code for the Mac and Linux ports, if they feel like they need the features DX11 offers.

*edit again I fail at names

[LeonhardSpoiler]

The decision to go with DX9 is most likely an engineering decision, i.e. weighing up the risk to the project (delays, bugs) of using an unfamiliar API vs. the benefits that it would bring (efficiency, better frame rate).

The main benefits that DX11 brings to a game engine, over DX9, are efficiency improvements and tesselation. A DX11 engine should in theory be able to draw far more distinct objects in the same frame time as a DX9 engine. Or, with the same amount of stuff to render, a DX11 engine should give a better framerate. As for tesselation, it's a huge efficiency win if you want to use high-poly models that have curved surfaces.

It's a shame that X:R won't use DX11 at launch, but it's entirely understandable.

[Scoob]

I think the big plus of DX11 - IF ES decide to update the engine at a later time - is that is allows you to offload some of the geometry work load off onto the GPU. With the X series traditionally being CPU hogs first and foremost, it might well be that a DX11 update brings performance benefits as well as improving visuals.

Tessellation - as this is what I'm talking about - seems to be more readily applied to natural object rather than things such as space ships. Considering how asteriods were subject to several mods in earlier games to reduce their detail / numbers, tessalation could have a place addressing similar issues in Rebirth. I mean have you seen some of the asteroid fields in the various screen shots and videos? There's a LOT going on there, perhaps tessellation will help...?

Regardless, as things stand Rebirth looks very nice. Once it's in our hands we'll be able to see how well it runs on the huge variety of hardware we have. IF DX11 offer a potential solution to increase performance, IF people are having problems, then maybe it's worth pursuing sooner. Also of course we have to be aware that the Egosoft team are likely not so experienced creating DX11 engines, so a time / value argument exists.

Personally I think ES will eventually be looking at DX11 more seriously in the future and I fully expect they've already put some time into the pros and cons - hence the initial DX9 choice.

Scoob.

[gattsumoto]

X Rebirth will run on DX9 API as long as all the features that we need from the API are possible with it. That does not mean we may not at some point also support DX11, but for now we do not see a need.

What about tesselation? That can be applyed for asteroids and characters.
Next - destructions. Would be great if you use hundreds physics enabled fragments when ship explodes. Also about explosions, with DX11 you can implement 3d explosions - looks much better then 2d textures.
TXAA instead of MSAA.
and so on.

I can't understand why you created brand new engine from scratch based on outdated technology..

I really enjoy to pay again for DX11 version

I'd rather they focus on getting the game as less bug as possible or invest on doing better character model and animation. Rather than improving already fantastic looking graphic we have seen so far.

[johncage]

Is it just me or does Rebirth lack the shininess of X3?
I really loved that reflective metal, here the colors look so cartoonishly plain

just compare to these
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1bcWiiUUEU

i think it's because they painted over the metal or covered it with some ablative substances for combat/reentry. i like the non-glossy look. also, metallic surfaces don't really shine consistently, there's unevenness, roughness, etc which all contributes to a flat look, so the older version's smooth shiny surfaces are actually pretty fake looking.

[Nick 031287]

didnt Bernd say they may upgrade to DX11 in the future? or DX12 what ever is availible by then

[leecarter]

I don't think going DX11 would make an enormous difference in how much you enjoy the game. Future expansions will probably use it though.

As far as technical aspects of the engine, I'm more concerned about how well they've implemented multi-threading. That will have a much bigger impact on playability than DX9 vs 11.

[Halconnen]

I don't think going DX11 would make an enormous difference in how much you enjoy the game. Future expansions will probably use it though.

As far as technical aspects of the engine, I'm more concerned about how well they've implemented multi-threading. That will have a much bigger impact on playability than DX9 vs 11.

Have you watched the pathing video on youtube? It contains a lot of info about Rebirth and multithreading.

[plynak]

I believe it has been mentioned previously that the selection of DX9 was something to do with maintaining compatibility with XP.

If I were to hazard a guess, there were probably other more technical reasons for it as well.

If they want a compatibility with XP, why make the game 64 bit only? Does not make sense. Not many people ever used 64bit XP...

[Kolreth]

DX 11 brings more than new stuff, it also does older dx9 functionality with greater efficiency in a lot of cases, in both software and hardware.

That being said, I'm kinda glad it's DX9 as it means the guys at Helixmod will more than likely have a fix out for 3d vision in less than a week.