X Rebirth Multiplayable?

[Haysand]

Sorry - I did not played X Rebirth yet, so I cannot comment on the economy being simplistic or not.

You do not need to.

I probably should have exlained myself more clearly.

The main issue of any network app is number of clients you have connected to your server since the amount of data increase exponentialy with each client connected.

Rebirth only has couple locations and couple items you can trade(and yes, that is based on past X games as well as fact that there is no reason to expect anything significantly more massive) and couple players to distribute the data between.

When you compare it to EVE, there you have about 6k systems, 50k simultaneous players and hundreds or even thousands of market items. You get the picture of the scale we talk about here.

Then again, if a game can run on a single computer, distributing the little amount of data related to economy to couple more clients is negligable concern.


NPC? This is rather easy - scripts. You just distribute script and then the rest is processed by client, getting updated once in a while. No issue there.

All multiplayer games do the same and Rebirth is present no exception. If they can do it, Rebirth can do it too.

[Ravenhurst]

I really wouldn´t mind if they add an option to have multiplayer dogfight in some area for a start. Nothing else. Then later, expand on that.

But not earlier than X-Rebirth 3.0

First I´d like
FPS features, many things to do on foot, more ships, a hangar, etc.

[jkflipflop98]

I also am afraid you are underestimating the amount of data that has to be processed and exchanged

More likely you are overestimating

The biggest issue are querries you need to make towards the database(ie. when you open a trade interface) and X / Rebirth economy is rather simplistic with just handful of items.

This isn't EVE Online.

Sorry - I did not played X Rebirth yet, so I cannot comment on the economy being simplistic or not. As far as I understood every ship in the traffic can carry wares and leaving out or destroying that ship has an effect on the economy. That's also true for stations. As you say that is not the case and it's more simplistic I guess you have more insight than me - that leads to the guess you must be an beta tester that has played some part of the game already...

But do not forget I was not talking about economy only. I also mentioned all the traffic around stations must be exactly synchronized on both computers, otherwise you get collisions with "invisible" objects or fly trough ships as if they where not there. Also all user build stations must be present in both computers (that can lead to problems if both players have a different station in the same location).

In essence both games have to be in the same economic state and level of development, otherwise the whole game universe would be out of sync. This must lead to the idea of a "muli-player area" that has to be completely separated from the original game for reasons given above. In that area everything has to be tuned-down to make multi-player possible.

As I said - If you don't mind to play a cut-down version of X Rebirth to be able to do some multi-player be my guest. I am not that interested if you don't mind...

And please tell me where my reasons are off. If you have better info than I have I would be very pleased to get that (and no - you cannot use the X3 info for this game, because that's based on a old game engine and game mechanics that are not longer present in X Rebirth).

You're way overestimating the data needed. You're not sending updates for everything every frame. All you need is start point, travel vector, and speed. You don't have to update again after that until there's a change in one of those metrics. You don't have to send updates of what is actually in each individual ship until needed.

Basically you're just making your own wild claims needed to get to your own predetermined "correct" conclusion. I'm pretty sure they call that a "strawman argument"

[CutterJohn1]

The other thing to consider is running costs.

Were Egosoft to consider going down that route, they would know they would alienate a good percentage of their fanbase who love the X Universe for what it is.

I really don't understand how you can justify this opinion. If Ego announced today "Surprise! The game also supports multiplayer with 4 player servers! Don't worry, every single thing we've shown for gameplay is staying exactly the same, and of course it is completely optional", do you really believe there would be people so disgusted at the idea of a game feature they don't even have to touch existing that there would be cancellations?

I would be highly surprised if even a single person cancelled based on that news.

This communities aversion to MP is very strange.

[JClosed]

@CutterJohn1

I do not think people are really opposed to multiplayer. Most people here are just not very interested. Most players here like the single player aspect of the X series and would like to see that aspect as the priority in the game development. There are too much games that got a lousy single player part because developers changed the bulk of attention to the multiplayer aspect. They just do not want the X series go down that same road...

But there are other reasons I (and some others) are not happy with the multiplayer idea. Let me explain:

When asked in the Reddit QA the people from Egosoft have stated multiplayer was possible, but not easy to implement. That means there has to be a considerable amount of work to be done to make that implementation..

As we all know Egosoft has a small team. We all would like expansions (new area's to explore and races added - or even multiple ships). As stated above there has to be put a lot of work in developing a multiplayer version of X Rebirth. If they do that other things like expansions will be delayed or even cancelled.

It's a matter of choice. Do you want multiplayer or expansions? The team is too small to do both in a reasonable amount of time. As I have no particular interest in multiplayer, but am extremely interested in expansions and game improvements my choice is clear.

As said - I do not hate multiplayer at all, but i would hate to see nice things cancelled for it...

[CutterJohn1]

Well articulated points

I understand completely. I went through the same exact thing you fear. I wanted multiple ships, in exchange I got a feature I had virtually no desire for, walking around on stations and visiting space bars.

Its annoying, but not the end of the world, and I realize some people will enjoy it(they better enjoy it... ).

And yes, I would give up an expansion or two for multiplayer capability. I feel that it would add a lot to the game. I'd certainly like to see it for XR2. XR3 can add planetary landings, if we ever get that far.

[Daisai]

The developers at egosoft are a bit stubborn and are still stuck in 2000 or so when multiplayer games werent a big deal.

I hope they really made a good AI in this game with a good sandbox options to compensate for the lack of a coop mode.

This makes you sound like a disappointed kid that doesn't get his favorite toy changed to what he wants and in return calls Egosoft names.

In fact, your claim at the end shows that you don't know what you talk about: You don't need much of a coop mode if the AI is stupid, but to fight against a brilliant AI you would want such. So it's both and not either; and a decent AI is mandatory anyways - wonder how they far with that this time.

Why the insult?
Its a simple known fact by the gaming community that games that have a multiplayer option have more succes, also with a coop mode.

A game like this alone can be rather boring without a real sandbox experience apart from a little trading and missions.

So with a coop mode doing these missions and trading with 2 or 3 friends can become alot more fun, also the fights will be more fun.

If i already sound like a "disappointed kid" to you then you have to ask yourself how does Egosoft sound when a question is being asked about the multiplayer and the only answer they give is a "No".

Don't get me wrong, the game does look fun but not at the price it is at now after playing the x3 games.
The game however would have been alot more appealing to alot more players if there was a small multiplayer mode.

But as i said, this is where egosoft seems a bit stubborn and simply decides to not go with a multiplayer.


We just have to wait and see the difference between a direct competitor like Star Citizen and this game and see the difference in sells.

[Cycrow]

Why the insult?
Its a simple known fact by the gaming community that games that have a multiplayer option have more succes, also with a coop mode

thats not true at all.

just take GTA, GTA San Andreas (no multiplayer) sold more than GTA 4 (with multiplayer)

The biggest selling game on the pc, Sims 2, is single player.

adding multiplayer does not guarantee success

[Ericius11]

A game like this alone can be rather boring without a real sandbox experience apart from a little trading and missions..

How does this not constitute as a "real" sandbox experience? What is your definition of sandbox?

If i already sound like a "disappointed kid" to you then you have to ask yourself how does Egosoft sound when a question is being asked about the multiplayer and the only answer they give is a "No".

They sound like a parent telling they're persistent child "No." (that's what mine sounded like)

Look, I understand your opinion. I even can agree with you to a certain extent. It would be fun to play this game with my wife in a coop. Especially on missions like escorting freighters (one performs a point defense while the other intercepts attackers). And it would also make me feel less guilty about having to ignore her while I play. But once you start hosting servers over an internet connection, even with close friends, it opens a huge can of worms that most X-Fans don't want to even go near. And as someone else pointed out, there are a lot of other really cool updates that many of us would rather have instead.

[Silla]

True thing there is no guarentee that a a good singleplayer game with a (good) mutliplayer sells better than without... but there is also no gurantee that a SP has success or sells better than with it. Lets have a look at Anno 2070.. what has a decent singleplayer and this singleplayer gamplay works very well in multiplayer too!! And Anno is a typical build your econnomy game which is also a big part of the X Games . If it would be possible to do the same what you do in your regular Singleplayer game also by network it would be at least an extra that can be sold ... If you look in some gaming magazine im sure you will find a list of pro and cons to the game and im also quite confident some will mark the fact that XR hasnt any kind of network game ..EGO will get a minus for that. Im not a marketing expert but i guess there are people that are interested in XR but dont buy the game because its soley SP.... and that means EGO might have more sales if they would implement it. Only market research can help tp figure out what profits can be made and what it would cost.... So no one here except the people of EGO (maby) know about the real liability of a MP gamemode.

For myself i would wish there would be one that works like the SP... and im quite confident that this is achievable (.. i mean you can stream loads of data to your pc today with a decent connection). And this is because at least for the old game (also i loved them) they didnt have this kind of longlivety (for me) because i missed the human factor (game was to predictable).. and the stories where kind of bad ... at no level with GTA stories what made the GTA series a good seller, I believe.

But once you start hosting servers over an internet connection, even with close friends, it opens a huge can of worms that most X-Fans don't want to even go near. And as someone else pointed out, there are a lot of other really cool updates that many of us would rather have instead.

I dont know what kind of worms your talking about ... but who says that "most" X-Fans dont want it do you have any liable statistics on that... and even if the most is true ... the 50%-X% might be still many people that would love it and we are only talking about people that are already "X-Fans" .. so you are excluding potential new "X-Fans" that might love the MP part and dont care so much about new updates (content)... just saying

(50%-X% ... is this the X-Factor )

[Ericius11]

But once you start hosting servers over an internet connection, even with close friends, it opens a huge can of worms that most X-Fans don't want to even go near. And as someone else pointed out, there are a lot of other really cool updates that many of us would rather have instead.

I dont know what kind of worms your talking about ... but who says that "most" X-Fans dont want it do you have any liable statistics on that... and even if the most is true ... the 50%-X% might be still many people that would love it and we are only talking about people that are already "X-Fans" .. so you are excluding potential new "X-Fans" that might love the MP part and dont care so much about new updates (content)... just saying

(50%-X% ... is this the X-Factor )

Points taken to heart. Now, to explain myself...

When I said "Most X-Fans,"I admit that's a rather subjective statement, but there's no way to prove me wrong without a poll (PLEASE do not make a new thread with a poll. It will turn into a blood bath). So let's agree to disagree about that point.

My "Can of Worms" as I referred to them include a host of issues that have been already mentioned by other players. I do not have the energy to reiterate them all but one example would be the logistical issues of setting up a host server. Even if the servers are hosted by players there is a lot of work for the programmers to do before hand.

I could list other reasons, but it's not worth it. You want to know why I think multiplayer is more effort than it's worth? Egosoft. They don't want to do it. If setting up multiplayer was easy and didn't detract from the game, the dev's would implement the system. But it's a lot of work and there are a lot of other things at least some of the die hard fans feel to be more important (ES included). Maybe we're all wrong. Maybe having a multiplayer game would make X Rebirth better. But we're happy keeping it SP, and don't have interest in anything else.

[Ivorystate]

Small scale coop would be awesome, like you and one other maybe, but I doubt it will ever be in an X game ever.

[Silla]

Even a poll here would not be liable so dont worry. Also im a bit unsure that the issues mentioned here are real issues but rather missinformation, missconception, missing knowlage ..or just hurdels that are difficult but can be overcome (or not). You are absolutly right about the fact that there are reasons that EGO didnt implementet it (yet).. but again i would not go as far as to say they don't want to do it... and as i mentioned before.. also I might be wrong about it... the mere fact that there seems to be some sort of HCP backbone in XR might be showing that XR wasnt merly designed to only stay SP in the (near) feature...(whishful thinking) and honestly I dont want to believe that EGO would develope a new enginge over a long time from ground up without implementing some kind of corner stone for at least a possible network capability ..remember XR is the start for a project that might be going on for the next 10-15 yrs ... it would be rather foolish to not at least thinkg about it

(guess what... Bernd could finally say 'Yes' what a show would that be, wouldnt it? hahaha)

[bbeach]

Out of my gaming group of 15, I'm the only one buying X Rebirth for sure (already pre-ordered). Another guy is on the fence and is waiting for gameplay videos and my reaction to the game before purchasing just after launch or waiting for a steam sale.

Our same gaming group has 6 people who have already bought into Star Citizen (I have not yet).

The conversation on mumble went like this.

"X-Rebirth is releasing middle of November."
"What's that?"
"Here's a trailer and a gamescom demo [links]"
"That game looks awesome! I wonder what the multiplayer will be like."
"It's single player only."
"Oh, well that sucks."

If there was a 2-4 player co-op mode, at least the people that kickstarted SC would have pre-ordered XR (5-6 more sales from our group).

Perhaps launching a kickstarter for a MP sandbox experience in XR would be an option Egosoft could pursue, if there's enough interest it will pay for the development, if there isn't then they can move along knowing that it wasn't worth their time.

[Slajfer]

Being a single player game in this day and age of nearly everything going multiplayer can be looked at as an advantage too [by some at least].

I can understand some people wanting co-op, but isn't success of multiplayer usually driven by competitive component? Isn't it a little questionable how much extra interest would co-op alone generate?

[Sahvion]

Why the insult?
Its a simple known fact by the gaming community that games that have a multiplayer option have more succes, also with a coop mode.

Ummm, very untrue =\

I for one, hope this game 'never' gets Multiplayer.

[SparvieroGed]

I hope to see multiplayer in X Rebirth.


First way

I go with my Albion Shunk and my Crew in the another player's universe (all the universe is laid down by his single game ). We can do everythings together. Fight, Build, Explore, ecc.
Then I leave the game and the other player continues to play in single in his universe ( that we changed together ), instead I come back to my universe with more or less money ( maybe I boarded a ship and i sold it, but then i had to repair my albion shulk ecc...).
In the same way, other players can come in my universe, change it, and then leave eventualy with their profits.


Second way

Two or more players join together in a special multiplayer sector. They can carry their fleet and fight each other. Can be a high number of settings about this:
- settings about the power of the fleets ( to balance the fight )
- settings about the final goal of the battle ( conquer the station in the middle of the sector, mine 5000 crystal ore and carry them at the player station so you have to defend your mining ship and you station, ecc )
- And if I lost a ship...I lost it also in the single player or not?


Third way

Every player ( in this example we have 10 players ) selects a sector of his universe and joins the multiplayer game. A new universe is born from the union of the 10 sectors. If player one select a sector with three station e twenty ship...they will be also in te multiplayer universe.
In the game the players trade, fight, ecc.
At the end every player come back to his universe, carry the sector ( choosed at the start ) changed by the multiplayer game.

I don't know if I can explain my self with my poor english XD

[ragamer]

First of all... To all ppl saying "X's games doesn't need MP capabilities to improve gameplay"... Well...

...All of you, remember each time you had sweared when the AI does something "stupid"?, When it fails to comply with your orders? Heck... When you even lack the right order to issue?...

...Well, think what could happen on EACH of those situations if the "entity" behind was a real player.


Second, for the ppl that WANTS A X MMO RIGHT NAOH!!!

To support a MMO you need to design a kind of gameplay that allows anonymous players to cohexist together, on top of an expensive server infrastructure to support EACH player FULL RANGE of activities. Simple SP issues like "who owns this structure"? Who decides what's built and when? How you restrict information so each player can enjoy exploration? How you balance latency on competitive scenarios? Require full replanning when attempted by multiple players at the same time.

The above questions (and linked solutions) require a redesign of the gameplay... Certainly can be X on space, but, besides visualization, you have to create a whole new set of "server rules" to deal with a lot of players EACH EXPECTING A FULL X GAME EXPERIENCE.

Sorry for the caps but I want to highlight what distinguishes a MMO from a multiplayer game... The scope of actions EACH player can expect to do.


And thirdly, for the ppl that wants to share their game with others

This are the realistic target audience for a "X multiplayer experience". You may think that replacing "stupid AI" by a player connected remotely to your game is easy...

...Definitively easier than allowing each player to be a full one but...

...What about universe mirroring? What each player will perceive? How to update regularly a Universe that needs 8GB of memory to run smoothly to EACH player involved in the session?...

...I'm not saying can't be done (Elite Dangerous precissely offers this, but their "Universe" is much simpler than X's one) but...

...Creating a way for the "host" to describe the Universe correctly to each player requires a design phase on how to "incrementaly" communicate Universe changes to all players (ie "multiplayer protocol") that clearly is not needed for the SP game.


In any case, at least this time, MP is not automatically banned by the basic gameplay of XR:

- SETA is gone as a "travelling speed booster", replaced by the MP friendly "highways".

- SECTOR concept is gone and replaced by "smooth transitions" between zones.


What the future will bring? Who knows... But at least this time, the new engine allows us to keep on dreaming.

[Shadow-Maiden]

Came to forum for this weeks "will X be multiplayer?" thread

Did not leave disappointed.

Also, EvE Online that way ----->

[Ericius11]

Being a single player game in this day and age of nearly everything going multiplayer can be looked at as an advantage too [by some at least].

I can understand some people wanting co-op, but isn't success of multiplayer usually driven by competitive component? Isn't it a little questionable how much extra interest would co-op alone generate?

I disagree. Sandbox games (for me at least) can be a lot more fun when you have someone playing WITH you. IF we were to get multiplayer - and I"m not saying I would want it - the only kind of multiplayer I would have ANY interest in is co-op. If we went to an MMO, I would stop playing these kind of games. *shrugs* They're not inherently bad, I just don't like them.