Stealing Enemy Marines X3AP vs 3.1

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Gruber1232002
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Stealing Enemy Marines X3AP vs 3.1

Post by Gruber1232002 » Mon, 20. Jan 14, 20:45

(Off topic intro)

As my excitement towards X:Rebirth waned with all the reported bugs and issues (let's not talk about it, I've read the forums quite thoroughly) I decided to buy Albion Prelude and give it a whirl. I wasn't thrilled at having to rebuild my factory complexes and reassemble my Xenon fleet to get back to where I left off in TC, but that's just how it goes.

(On topic post)

I've already spent millions and many hours re-initiating my old training program to produce the finest ninja marines in the universe. It's slow going to say the least. Yes I am familiar with the training mods etc, but I want to stay Vanilla for now. I've got about 15 marines ready for fight training and about 40 more getting engineering and either hacking or mechanical training. Once they are fight trained (return ship missions, Civilian TL's etc) I'll train up their missing skill (hacking or mechanical)

Anyway, it hasn't escaped my attention that the Rapid response fleets carry marines, really good marines. Marines that could give my marines a run for their money or... with a little additional training join my marines... if you catch my drift... :twisted:

Now I know this is possible because I already stole 3 of them and added them to my training queue. Their skills are all in the 80-90 range, which represents millions of credits and more importantly days of training. As I'm sure you are all aware, many things are possible, but what I'm looking for is practical.

Scenario

In Black Hole Sun I took a defend station mission. Carrack jumps in. As usual, before I can effectively get to the Carrack our friendly neighborhood RR Minotaur has jumped in and unleashed a s***storm of hammers at it. "Well there goes that". I turboboosted towards the hammers in an effort to shoot some down and hopefully steal the Minotaur's kill, as they have done to me many many many many many times (off topic, lets not talk about how irritating the RR fleets are, it's been done oodles of times). I managed to shoot two down but the Carrack got spanked pretty hard with about 30% hull left. I was swinging around looking for more hammers before moving in for the kill when the Carrack shot down a boarding pod, spilling 3 veteran marines into space. Well that's new :o . 30 seconds later the Carrack took another hammer or two and evaporated, I assume with all the high level marines attempting to cut through its hull. Oh AI, :headbang: how dumb can you be?...


Anyway, I've never seen the AI attempt to board before but since those marines were heading back towards the Minotaur I decided to see if I could um, give them a ride... Apparently they were quite unimpressed with how their buddies were fired out the tubes then exploded, so they just joined my marines in my cargo hold. I was afraid they would turn into passengers.

Opportunity knocks :pirat:

I am sure some other enterprising player has noticed this dubious boarding mechanism and already figured out how to abuse the s*** out of it for fun and profit. So finally here's my question..

1) What is a practical strategy for baiting an AI boarding op AND surviving it?

2) How do I effectively shoot down all the hammers and boarding pods without turning the marines into thin red paste?

I'm thinking about using a Cerberus with PBC (yes the laser-tower version). Attack RR M7M, jump to other side of the sector, transfer shields to Falcon Hauler, hop into turret and shoot down all missiles. Aside from being uncomfortably short ranged, I suspect FAA would take out hammers pods and marines with the area of effect damage. The other problem is that I can't risk letting even a single hammer through as my shields start charging from 0. The long range and insta-hit qualities of the PBC make it an intriguing theoretical approach. However this isn't my first Rodeo so I know exactly how reliable theoretical approaches are, hence my questions for the community...
AP 3.1 Vanilla + Bonus Pack. For now....

XENON
Boarding the Xenon TC 2.7

Exotic Boarding Maneuvers TC 2.7
2 TP's
2 M7M's

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Torpor
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Post by Torpor » Mon, 20. Jan 14, 21:07

fist hint: bonuspack. it gives u no modified. mozzie rocket defence stuff. should air ur towers at taking the rockets

in my optinion, if the weapon fits right an ai guided lasertower is more effective than a player controlled

my best idea would be mars incl goblin rocket defence
but as u wanna sty criplled vanilla
thats no choice 4 u
Wir sind ***Modified***. Ergeben Sie sich.
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Tasogie
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Post by Tasogie » Mon, 20. Jan 14, 21:44

I dont understand how goblin works. I installed the rebalanced mod, an looked at the salvage config an marz etc etc an I dont understand any of it. But this goblin stuff... I gave up trying to figure it. now I just use mossie missiles to shoot down incomings.
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Torpor
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Post by Torpor » Mon, 20. Jan 14, 21:46

Tasogie wrote:I dont understand how goblin works. I installed the rebalanced mod, an looked at the salvage config an marz etc etc an I dont understand any of it. But this goblin stuff... I gave up trying to figure it. now I just use mossie missiles to shoot down incomings.
mars has a very good manual, look in the mars forums thread in s+m forum
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nponoBegHuk
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Post by nponoBegHuk » Mon, 20. Jan 14, 23:31

Hmm, first thing to check is whether RR would actually try to board a player-owned ship or not. I tried to check myself but keep failing at extracting from the .pck... sorry about that.

If player ships are not targeted for boarding (which is the most probable), I would follow the same approach as you did initially - provoke a clash between two capships, target the ship capable of boarding and watch closely for a pod launch. Save immediately after pod launch and reload couple of times hoping for the best. Maybe strip your ship of shields and stick it between two ships hoping for the pods to hit your ship and release marines into space... If there's no pod launch at all, reload a couple of times since the beginning of a clash hoping for a launch.
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Torpor
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Post by Torpor » Tue, 21. Jan 14, 00:05

nponoBegHuk wrote:Hmm, first thing to check is whether RR would actually try to board a player-owned ship or not. I tried to check myself but keep failing at extracting from the .pck... sorry about that.

If player ships are not targeted for boarding (which is the most probable), I would follow the same approach as you did initially - provoke a clash between two capships, target the ship capable of boarding and watch closely for a pod launch. Save immediately after pod launch and reload couple of times hoping for the best. Maybe strip your ship of shields and stick it between two ships hoping for the pods to hit your ship and release marines into space... If there's no pod launch at all, reload a couple of times since the beginning of a clash hoping for a launch.
have in mind that its possible to be boarded in playership if ur shields are down
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DrBullwinkle
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Re: Stealing Enemy Marines X3AP vs 3.1

Post by DrBullwinkle » Tue, 21. Jan 14, 02:20

Gruber1232002 wrote:1) What is a practical strategy for baiting an AI boarding op AND surviving it?

2) How do I effectively shoot down all the hammers and boarding pods without turning the marines into thin red paste?
1) I don't think you can. AFAIK, no vanilla ships will attempt to board one of your ships. Improved Boarding and Yaki Armada can allow NPC's to board your ships, but those are scripts (in the S&M forum).

2) There is no way to increase the odds that marines will bail from a boarding pod that is shot down. It is just a random event when pods are destroyed.

A better strategy for stealing marines is to steal them during your own boarding ops. Obviously, you will have to pick your targets carefully until your own marine force becomes dominant in strength.

rzadzins
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Post by rzadzins » Tue, 21. Jan 14, 11:25

Actually, I had a similar situation (marines training for ages, me doing other stuff in the meantime)... at some point I ended up defending grand exchange when the "boarding music" started.

I was very confused, first I thought I'm getting boarded, but then it was clear that was not the case, so I started checking around and the only fleet that was left alive was the RR guys. Who boarded whom I don't know, but at some point a few 5 star marines were spat out!

This happened twice, some of the best marines (close to 4x100) I got this way!

Vanilla 100% btw.

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Post by DrBullwinkle » Tue, 21. Jan 14, 11:42

rzadzins wrote: first I thought I'm getting boarded, but then it was clear that was not the case
Exactly. :)

Orion1632
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Post by Orion1632 » Wed, 22. Jan 14, 12:45

Huh, I just had this sort of thing happen,

I am in Third Redemption, and doing a petrol sector mission, when a Carrack jumps in.

I kill of his fighters... wait to see if RR guys jump in... nope they are not coming... do a quick save, call in my ready Kraken. drop his shields.....

is there something wrong with Carracks in AP? they don't shoot back much....

keep his shields down.

get the Kraken to fire pods into him..

Boarding starts....

Huh?

why are there so many marines in space?

Huh?

I get all confused, start checking personnel list.... marines are in the ship... all accounted for..... oh the ones in space are NOT MINE !

Hmmm,

Call in my fast Ocelot.... start picking marines left and right.. some of them are really good stuff.

lost 2 as they got to a station before I reacted.

don't know where they came from ! no M7M in sight or anything?

rzadzins
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Post by rzadzins » Wed, 22. Jan 14, 13:56

On this note, what's the most efficient way you guys found for picking up marines? TBH I wish I could equip them with transporter devices so they could go back to my sirokos after a successful boarding...

Gruber1232002
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Post by Gruber1232002 » Wed, 22. Jan 14, 16:51

I decided to dust off the Khaak corvette I collected in Savage Spur to see how good B Kyons are at taking down hammers and Tomahawks. I had to repair it first at a shipyard which cost me almost 5M (which is why I hadn't used it yet) but what the hey, it's just money right. (Before anyone points out the obvious, I've been playing for years, I know all about the repair laser and Seta trick etc etc. It just takes too long in AP and I have about 90M that I'm not using). Anyway, results are as follows...

AWESOME!!!

No targeting required. Point at the first hammer in the line, pull the trigger and paint them all. That sound is music to my ears. With the Corvette I think I can effectively control the hammers enough to give the AI RR ships time to send in a boarding party. Need to make sure I have my Ocelot ready for pickups though (excellent hot zone TP BTW).

If I can't shoot down the pods without killing the majority of the marines I may try bringing the target's hull down to a couple of % instead after they connect so that they abort and bail into space. I'll let you know when I get a chance to test the theories.

Feel free to post your own results if you do any of your own testing.
AP 3.1 Vanilla + Bonus Pack. For now....

XENON
Boarding the Xenon TC 2.7

Exotic Boarding Maneuvers TC 2.7
2 TP's
2 M7M's

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Post by DrBullwinkle » Wed, 22. Jan 14, 18:11

Orion1632 wrote:why are there so many marines in space?
Probably they were on the Carrack before you began boarding. If your marines are strong enough they will throw the defending marines out the airlock. Yes, that is an excellent way to get marines for your own squad. :pirat:
  • (I have encountered Carracks that are very "shooty", so you were just lucky.)


rzadzins wrote: what's the most efficient way you guys found for picking up marines? TBH I wish I could equip them with transporter devices so they could go back to my sirokos after a successful boarding...
In a modified game, you can: Teleporter does exactly that; beams your marines back to your ship.

In the vanilla game, a couple of TP's with Special Command Software can be commanded to "Collect Astronauts in Sector". It is slower than the Transporter Device, but it works.

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Post by Nanook » Wed, 22. Jan 14, 21:08

rzadzins wrote:On this note, what's the most efficient way you guys found for picking up marines? TBH I wish I could equip them with transporter devices so they could go back to my sirokos after a successful boarding...
Your marines normally will reboard the ship they were fired from if they miss the target for some reason, but it can take quite a while since they fly rather slow. Sometimes they'll board the ship they were targeted at even after you've captured it, assuming there's sufficient space. When that happens, you might get the boarding music again until they're all onboard. This last bit may cause you to freak out a little the first time it happens (speaking from experience :wink: ).
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rzadzins
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Post by rzadzins » Wed, 22. Jan 14, 22:57

Ah, so a TP is required? As the Spec command software didn't allow to collect marines on the sirokos...

As for re-boarding, I don't think this works. The 21st marine flies away, I have to chase him. The other 20, when ejected from the boarded ship just roam, sometimes fly towards the nearest station.

I guess this could make a lot of sense to be fixed in a bonus pack!

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Post by Orion1632 » Wed, 22. Jan 14, 23:56

TP is best as they can fit 40 marines, and can use the collect marines command, the other ships that can use collect command are too small.

oh and the Marines floating in space that I found were all teladi marines, some with very good ranking.... do the marines that bail from pirate ships have "pirate" on their name?

I do have a very good assault marine force, so maybe they took one look and jumped ship, but I took no loses.

rzadzins
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Post by rzadzins » Thu, 23. Jan 14, 10:53

Pilots who bail are "different" - only 6 cargo units and come in as a "passenger". They're also useless.
Playing X3-AP VANILLA

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