[X3AP] Cost Effective OOS Defense?

[OniGanon]

I've want to improve the defense of all my complexes, as I've been neglecting that until now (because AP is pretty darn safe most of the time). I've got a few Lasertowers on all of them, and some of them have a Heavy Osprey guarding them. I have an M7 on a few high risk ones.

The thing is, I have over two dozen complexes spread throughout the universe, so I'm looking for ways to be more cost effective about this. Wondering if anyone has ideas for that, or has any experience in using the following ships for OOS defense...


OTAS Zephyrus
2x HEPT, 4x PAC, 600MJ shields, costs only ~320K for the hull. Roughly the cost and OOS firepower of an M4, but with M6 level shields. Seems like it would be a cost effective alternative to M6/3 patrols. For the cost of 1 M3 I could have maybe 3-5 of these things.


Paranid Ariadne
16x FBL, 4x CIG, 800MJ shields, costs 18M. Cost and shields are comparable to an M6+, but has 6 more guns. If I understand it right, everything that makes FBLs bad in sector goes away OOS so you're left with something similar to a HEPT/CIG.


Yaki Ryu
8x IBL, 2x HEPT, 800MJ shields, costs 20M. The low shields has me leery of using this. Still, it's the cheapest ship that can pack any serious non-consumable anti-capital firepower. Perhaps a couple of them escorting a Tiger...

[rzadzins]

I'm interested in this as well. I've recently deployed a megalodon in every sector I got a complex only to find out it is too slow to catch M3 fighers.

The hostile M3 fighters can still "halt" all TS travels in a sector for the duration required for them to fly from one gate to another so it's quite annoying to see my ships "Idle" every now and then. So I'm thinking speed + firepower is what I need to add to my megalodon OOS sector defence.

[DiArmada]

if you really want you can place a ship at the gates and set it to defend position.
to be honest, there aren't that many attacks on your complexes, are there?
when it is, I just jump a ship there to take care of business.
in TC I used an OOS Springblossom to get rid of pesky fighters.

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

The biggest threat to complexes are the pirate raiders. In most cases these can be taken care of with a single heavy M6. I usually park a Hvy Centaur at all my complexes and they can handle anything the pirates can throw at them. If you have any complexes in pirate sectors you may need to park an M2 in 'defend position' orders in case a pirate M2/M1 spawns in sector. But the biggest threat is probably the Xenon Q, in which case parking a couple of M2s near the gate to the Xenon sector should keep that problem under control.

[DrBullwinkle]

Rule Number 1 for AI Combat: The last remaining ship wins. That is usually the ship with the strongest shields.

Therefore, your Ryu is probably the best choice of the three ships you suggest. Ryu's can also mount IBL's, which makes them very strong OOS. (Some M6's, and most "full" M7's or larger are even better. Whatever has the strongest shields.)

I have found "Defend Sector" to be the most reliable of the defense scripts. Defend Position and Defend Target can be unreliable, especially if you are trying to defend a large complex. Patrol Sector often puts the defense ship out of range of attackers. Defend Sector seems to find more enemies than the other scripts.

(Of course, Defend Sector would not be appropriate if you want to allow enemies (such as red pirates, for example) to fly through your sector unharmed.)



The low cost of the Zephyrus may make it an attractive alternative (although it does not have the firepower of a larger ship).



Fragmentation Bomb Launchers (FBL's) were re-balanced in AP 3.0. They are now a poor-man's "flak" weapon (as originally intended). They are faster, more powerful, and more efficient than a Particle Accelerator Cannon (PAC). That is an excellent combination for a fighter-based weapon. In-sector, they are better than High Energy Plasma Throwers (HEPT's). (If memory serves, HEPT's are still stronger OOS where energy consumption is not relevant.)

However, FBL's and HEPT's are never a match for Concussion Impulse Generators (CIG's), which are M6/M7 weapons.

[AL'42]

Yeah, its mostly pirate attacks, and the biggest problem is intercepting the pirates before they blow one of the tubes unravelling your whole complex.

So you want something very fast to reach all parts of your complex as quickly as possible. Springblossom is good, or wing a fast M3, or several M6 (if complex if huge) filled with fighter drones you can release if you get an attack warning.

I remember the time I connected every roid in Barren Shores, to do hub plot, with a lone M6 guarding the docking area, bloody useless, pirates attacked one of the outer zones, all the tubes vaporized before I could intercept. Left me with ~40 roids to re-connect !!

[Spychotic]

OOS combat is all about shields.

The way it works is that a time period is picked (IIRC it is 5 seconds if you're watching the sector on the map and 30 seconds if you aren't) and at the end of the time period, each ship will deal out damage, equal to its calculated DPS (considering every installed laser weapon) multiplied by the time period, to a designated target.

This is why a Q is so deadly; it will deal out up to 11MJ of damage to a target per turn, meaning that at least 12MJ of shielding is required on a ship to withstand a Q onslaught. This is why we often find our M2s being destroyed by Qs; the M2 was probably distracted by some other ship and got pounced on by the Q. Therefore, to work OOS in Xenon sectors or sectors bordering the Xenon, you need one of the ships with 12MJ of shielding, such as the Osaka.

But pirates don't have Qs. Worst you can expect from them is a pesky M6. In this case, you could leave a fast M6 or M7 in each sector to deal with the problem, but my preferred method is to equip three Springblossoms with SSCs and jumpdrives, homebase them somewhere with a continuous supply of Energy Cells, and every time Betty tells me one of my Complexes is under attack I send in the Springies. They have the firepower to marmalize any opponent short of an M7 and the speed to do it before any damage is done, even if I dither in sending them to the target.

Spike

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

Yeah, its mostly pirate attacks, and the biggest problem is intercepting the pirates before they blow one of the tubes unravelling your whole complex.

So you want something very fast to reach all parts of your complex as quickly as possible. Springblossom is good, or wing a fast M3, or several M6 (if complex if huge) filled with fighter drones you can release if you get an attack warning.

I remember the time I connected every roid in Barren Shores, to do hub plot, with a lone M6 guarding the docking area, bloody useless, pirates attacked one of the outer zones, all the tubes vaporized before I could intercept. Left me with ~40 roids to re-connect !!

I think you will find the tubes are indestructible, only the hub can be destroyed. Most likely the pirates destroyed a random station which will cause all connected station to come apart. And what makes it more annoying is that you won't always get a verbal warning when one of your stations is under attack. So it's quite possible to lose a station and not even know about for a while.

[Lea Flamma]

The most "cost efficient" strategy would be to set up a Fast Response fleet stacked with E-Cells and Jumpdrives. Each time you get a "Station/Ship under attack in..." you just sent it there.

But for your problem, best solution would be an M7 or M2 in each sector with one of your station set to "attack all enemies". Seting them at the gates is good against Pirates and Xenons, but not Khaak. And those will stole your TSs as well.

For OOS equipment look for highest DPR not DPS. OOS has it's specific mechanics, which I can explain if needed. Ship with highest shield and hull in it's class, mount the hardes hiting guns and you are well set up.

[rzadzins]

I think I was missing the point here, I'm actually trying to get something more self-sufficient that doesn't require me sending troops or reacting at all... Afaik in X3:R you could simply solve the speed problems by specifying patrol route waypoints - that would work best I guess.

[DrBullwinkle]

I think I was missing the point here, I'm actually trying to get something more self-sufficient that doesn't require me sending troops or reacting at all... Afaik in X3:R you could simply solve the speed problems by specifying patrol route waypoints - that would work best I guess.

To summarize my previous post in fewer words:

Defend Sector works best.

Use the ship with heaviest shields.

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

I think I was missing the point here, I'm actually trying to get something more self-sufficient that doesn't require me sending troops or reacting at all... Afaik in X3:R you could simply solve the speed problems by specifying patrol route waypoints - that would work best I guess.

The most cost effective way is just to have a M6+ docked at all complexes, it can deal with the pirate raiders no problem.

[Nanook]

Not really. A homebased defender will only defend if the complex hub is attacked. It won't react to individual stations in the complex being attacked.

[rzadzins]

Not really. A homebased defender will only defend if the complex hub is attacked. It won't react to individual stations in the complex being attacked.

True, and even a very remote pirate harrier can freeze complex suppliers in a given sector. I'm gonna go capture some springblossoms, will report how they do when done

[OniGanon]

At the moment I have my M6s/M7s set to Defend Station. This along with 2-3 Lasertowers has been enough to repel any minor Pirate raiding party of fighters. From what I've seen, the command seems to have the ships/towers attack anything hostile that comes close, then Idle near the station. As I've said, AP is pretty safe so this has generally been more than enough so far.

But occasionally I get a Xenon M6 or two show up out of nowhere in my sectors, along with some fighters. I've seen them for example at the West Gate in Sacred Relic and at the North Gate of Family Rhonkar, which makes no sense as there's no way Xenon could have gotten that far without the aggressive AP racial militaries blasting them to bits. I can only conclude then that Xenon are capable of spawning directly into my sectors.

And I worry that as my Fight rank increases, those M6s may become a Q, and those Pirate fighter groups might become Carracks. I worry also for when I eventually do the Shady Business plot.

I don't really like the idea of relying on a rapid response group. It's useful to have such a thing, of course. But I don't want to rely on it as the sole (or even primary) defense of any station, because it takes time for the ships to get to a station (especially in big sectors like Akeela's Beacon or Two Grand), warnings can come rather late or missed entirely if I'm AFK, and enemies can do absurd amounts of damage in a short time OOS. I've seen fighter groups chew through most of a station's hull just in the time it takes for me to send a group to stop them.

[Lea Flamma]

Defend station will not work in the long term. It works as stated only to station attacks. Any defend command means that the ship will only move if the hostiles start shooting. And any pirate just flying through the sector will stop your TS from moving.

As I wrote before, your best option is to set up your M6s/M7s to Attack all ennemies. It will make quick qork of those pirate raids, khaak incursions and any other hostile ship. Unless you are boarding a Xenon sector. For those, it's best to set up some M2s at the gate to stop any incoming.

[DrBullwinkle]

Actually, Defend Sector has the advantage that the defending ships will tend to idle near mid-sector so that they have a shorter distance to travel to get to any new incoming enemies. It works better than other "Defend..." commands, and better than "Attack all" in my experience. "Attack all" can leave your ships far out of position and will not respond to enemies that are far out of range.

Defend Sector appears to attack all incoming enemies, regardless of range.

[riceygringo]

I use "Defend..." because typically enemies only come from one gate, simply camping near the gate is far more efficient.

[Lea Flamma]

If it works for you then all is good. I usually face some Khaak incursions, that's why it's a "no go" for me. But as I usually say in such matters, find what's best suited for you. Every game is diferent and we can only provide clues, not direct solutions.

So it's Defend... that you use

[riceygringo]

Well it depends on the sector too, for me at least:

TUS1: Xenons only come from TUS2, so defend position is by far the best choice, especially since you absolutely must use a M2 and you really don't want to be chasing M's and N's at 54m/s (Or 64m/s if you are crazy enough to use a Tyr)

Elena's Fortune: You have pirates coming through the North and South gates, and the occasional Kha'ak fighter coming from President's end. Since I've seen Brigantines before in the sector, I ended up ditching the M6 patrol and sending another Osaka there. Since there's no way I'm going to hold all 3 gates, I opted for "denfend position" with the location set to the center of my complex.

Ore Belt: Kha'ak occasionally spawns, in this case since there's no enemy other than random Kha'ak Clusters, this is where speed > firepower. A Springblossom armed with all around PSSCs does the job perfectly with "patrol sector"