Let's band together..

[Aven Valkyr]

This is a risky post and I'm sorry if it breaks the rules. But it shouldn't conflict too terribly much with the TC community.

I would like to call all modders, scripters, artists, modellers and coders to join me in the making of a new game. It would be somewhat similar to X3 but yet so vastly different. I have a business model and a plan to make a new, great game. It would be extremely successful. It's the game everyone wants. It would be the game X Rebirth was supposed to be. The dev's seem non-existant on the forums now and I don't know if they are ashamed of their new product, going broke, giving up, or feverishly working on the next IP. Not sure.

So here is what I propose. I trust this community the most to work with me since some of you have gone to some extreme lengths to script and code some of the best mods for one of the best space games I've ever seen.

If any of you are interested in hearing the concept or would like to chat about it, please email me at {Email address removed}.

Also, if you know of anyone that would like to contribute to this project please let me know. Thanks


{Title corrected and it's not a good idea to put your Email address in a public forum. - Terre}

[Litcube]

{Title corrected and it's not a good idea to put your Email address in a public forum. - Terre}

Awww, I wanted to ban together.

[Boringnick]

Aven, you should really come in contact with Serial Kicked

He's the author of some very popular and extensive mods (Pirate Guild 3, Yaki Armada 2, Anarkis Defense System), is very vocal about Egosoft's missteps:

http://anarkisgaming.url.ph/news/x-rebi ... /#more-144 (you should read it)

And is currently working on a X3 alternative "everyone wants" himself:

http://afmodding.comli.com/news/unending-galaxy/

That's the guy who fits your profile like a glove. You should contact him on his site.

[Boringnick]

By the way, seeing that Litcube is on this thread, you should try his mod "Revelation"

It adds a gameplay element that has similarites to the stuff we talked about on your thread.

[Terre]

{Title corrected and it's not a good idea to put your Email address in a public forum. - Terre}

Awww, I wanted to ban together.

All can be arranged. How long would you like your ban to last?

[Aven Valkyr]

Thanks everyone And as for the title being changed, lol woops And here I thought my English was pretty much flawless, well never too late to learn something new Sorry about posting my email btw.

That mod of litcubes looks really awesome I'm going to have to try it out for sure.

After doing a bunch of research yesterday on what it takes to actually code a brand new engine, lol wow. So I had a look at Unity for an already built gaming engine but that engine only really caters to FPS and top down shooters. For any sort of hope to see a brand new space shooter hit the market it will have to be coded from scratch. And then we're looking at thousands of dollars of software being purchased for that. They really get you when you want to do things yourself huh.

So now I have another question, is it possible to go back to X3 and have another look at it? Are the core game elements able to be modded? Would it be possible to do all the things I want to do with X3 and simply reverse-engineer it? Is it possible to dig into the engine itself and fix the ai pathfinding and add the endgame content I'm looking for?

[zanzal]

As fun as it might be to write one, I think I'd prefer to just play the games because unless one has the drive to finish it then it will likely just be a waste of time. Projects like that are easy to start, but hard to finish. If you are bored and can't wait for the next good X game then you might try Starpoint Gemini 2. I also found a nice little 2D space game Drox Operative that has some different gameplay mechanics. Neither will compare well to X3TC/AP but they can both be good in their own way. I'm waiting until X Rebirth is bug free, then I'll enjoy it as well. Also hoping that Serial Kicked's game gets finished and released as it will probably be fun to play.

I guess what I am saying is that you should think carefully before you start a massive undertaking like a new space simulation. There are easier ways to get your space-fix and a few promising game series are already on the way.

[zanzal]

So now I have another question, is it possible to go back to X3 and have another look at it? Are the core game elements able to be modded? Would it be possible to do all the things I want to do with X3 and simply reverse-engineer it? Is it possible to dig into the engine itself and fix the ai pathfinding and add the endgame content I'm looking for?

Yes, you can google X3 with terms like KC obj edit to see threads on modding the game at a much lower level. Also, one thread mentions the Bernd giving approval for mods to include a obj edit. Mods like Litcube's Universe and XTL are two examples of mods that include those types of changes. Warning: Obj editing - some assembly required

I wouldn't have any idea the limits to what can be done with it, but its probably a much better undertaking that writing a brand new engine.

[Shush]

After doing a bunch of research yesterday on what it takes to actually code a brand new engine, lol wow. So I had a look at Unity for an already built gaming engine but that engine only really caters to FPS and top down shooters. For any sort of hope to see a brand new space shooter hit the market it will have to be coded from scratch. And then we're looking at thousands of dollars of software being purchased for that. They really get you when you want to do things yourself huh.

Unity can do just about any type of 3D simulation and is extensible for those it has limitations with, (it is not cheap though as you noted).

Take a look at Unreal Engine 4 which has been recently released on a cheap subscription based plan; even though it has traditionally been used for FPS's it to can also be extended and in a much more powerful way than Unity as you get access to the full source code.

The last option is to write your own OpenGL/Direct3D engine from scratch, unless you have some major experience in the field then you are most assuredly doomed before you even start.

[Aven Valkyr]

Well I think I have been convinced to have a look at X3 and try at modding it. The problem is that I have no education or experience with scripting, coding or modding. I have in the past used tools and utilities given by game publishers to make simple mods for the games they are released for such as morrowind. So what I really would like to do is put together a team of ppl who are interested in writing one of the most comprehensive mods ever seen for X3 yet.

Here is what I hope to accomplish:

-A complete re-work of the AI pathfinding system, to a new system that actually works. Read my one thread posted in the X Rebirth section for more details on this
-A complete re-work of the entire game universe, starting from scratch. There are now several sectors revolving around single planets and stars, with only a few regions in the game. Also an entirely new UI for viewing the map altogether, which is broken into global regions, such as "terran space" and then broken down into the given sectors for that region.
-An overhaul to graphics. This includes brand new stations, backdrops, ships, weapons, and physics (seen in X Rebirth with the animated turrets). -Hardpoints are introduced on each ship which are broken into sub-systems, so it's now possible to attack the lasers of a capital ship, effectively disabling it.
-A totally new UI for running capital ships (M7, M7M, M2, M1, Carriers). See my post in the X Rebirth forum (link provided below) concerning this. Basically copying from another game called Starshatter. Epic cap ship combat in that game. The UI in this new system includes a quick access bar shown in the game window that allows you to set turrets on the fly, for example in starshatters system, being able to set a turret to auto fire, or defense. Also added is missile defense, attack <capitals> or <fighters> or any other such majour ship type.
-A completely re-worked storyline and new advancement system, with endgame content. This is discussed extensively in my post which is linked below, but in a nutshells you can take new career paths that make you a military career where they give you your assets for a long while. Or you can do a typical start and earn your way to epicness. Either way the end result is the same, and you are given missions to take your armada into certain sectors for certain reasons, such as the capturing of a sector, support for an invasion fleet, defense of a sector, the assigning of parts of your armada for NPC military use at the benefit of being greatly rewarded with player owned shipyards, hubs, etc.
-Dynamic sandboxing would make the game so that your actions really make a difference in the game world. If you invade a sector it's yours. This would require the disabling of the God spawner. It would also work hand-in-hand with the endgame missions given to you.
-New methods of transportation would be introduced. The suggestion I made of including something called the graviton wave generator for intermediate forms of travel would be implemented. SETA would be removed from the game altogether. Ships would come with the GWG as a standard and therefore all merchants and other ships in the game would move much more rapidly while the device is enabled. However enabling this device drops your shields and disables your weapons so travelling in this manner comes at a cost. The standard jump gate system would still be used, but the highway system found in Rebirth (minus the mini-game) would be introduced as a way for military trade lanes and the movement of large fleets between regions.
-Core visual upgrades to cockpits and flight systems. Also a rework of the UI and interface. More visually pleasing.
-The reduction of the use of the windows. For example with setting up your turrets requires you to press ctrl+c, then down into the turret management screen, opening up a new window, and setting turrets individually. This is cumbersome in the middle of a dogfight, taking players away from what's important. Another example is the setting up of wings. A more intuitive system is needed for wing control and managing several groups of fighters. the CODEA system worked fairly well but was plagued with complicated and confusing install packages and several layers of windows. A whole new management system is needed here.

This is all I can think of right now but if you want to read more into detail as to what I've been wanting out of this game I suggest you read my forum post here:

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=365336

And also refer to the link I posted to a youtube video concerning a much more comprehensive form of capital ship combat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJuurm7Olv0

If anyone is really interested in doing this I would like to offer my support as project coordinator. I make decent money in real and I can afford to purchase a domain name and a solid server with a static IP. I might also try negotiating with Egosoft the use of their engine for this complete overhaul of the game so that we may sell it on steam as a standalone title. I would launch a kickstarter program for this new game try to actually pay the people involved in doing this.

The list of people needed for this project would be:

Modellers
Scripters
Coders
Voice actors
Musicians
Graphics artists
Writers

[Killjaeden]

The list of people needed for this project would be:

Modellers
Scripters
Coders
Voice actors
Musicians
Graphics artists
Writers

Well and that's the critical point. I have never seen someone of that category looking for someone with super huge plans who just intends to work on ideas and hand out work to others... unless it's well payed work. A team doesn't need someone who is responsible for ideas, because in general there are always people with great creativity in a team.

I can't remember a single mod that was started by someone like that. It always started with someone of the above mentioned category who walks the walk and not just talks the talk. Then other people who wanted to walk the walk with him joined and it became bigger progressively.

[Litcube]

I have to agree with KJ here. My thoughts: Ideas are a dime a dozen. Do the work.

@Terre, if we're going to ban together, both of us have to be banned. That's what togetherness is all about. <3.

[Falcrack]

Just get Jack08 and Trixx to finish making X Timelines (or even release a friggin beta of it) and I'll be happy.

[Aven Valkyr]

That's the problem :/ I don't know the first thing about coding... and the more I look into reverse engineering X3 the more complicated it gets. I've tried to download some software and I've looked at the .cat files, but I'm not sure how the cat files relate to the dat files. I've also looked at the script folder and I've deduced that the scripts call on the contents found within the cat files. But the real question is where is the engine, what is the thing that puts this all together. Where's the hull of the ship so to speak. What is it that compiles all this information together. You can't just have a collection of scripts and models and call it a game. there's something that's gotta run it. I suppose I'm looking for the source code. The other problem is there's not a lot out there for tutorials on how to get started even with a simple mod. Adjusting the cat files is near impossible. I'm thinking a person has to extract all the files and folders found within the cat file to a separate folder altogether and work on it that way. That being said, what all does a guy need for tools to finish the job. I would need a graphics editor I'm thinking but which one. I would need a script editor but which one? From what I understand scripts are edited while in game. But you can only edit certain ones. I don't understand how all that works. How would a guy go about modding things like AI and the UI. This is all stuff I just don't have the experience for. This is why I'm calling for several modders to get together to work on the same idea. Maybe someone laying the groundwork and doing all the leg work in getting things organized is exactly what is needed here. I don't know how to script or code or edit graphics but I do know how to write storyline, put ideas down to paper, organize and delegate the work out to the right people. I also have the funds to buy a server and a domain and so on.

[Jack08]

Just get Jack08 and Trixx to finish making X Timelines (or even release a friggin beta of it) and I'll be happy.

Get TrixX to actually do some work for once in a year, and i'd be happy... :/

That is why XTL is dead, im a 1 man team trying to do the job of 5 - and no one was willing to help - Everyone that said they would vanished within a week. I Worked for 3 years before i finally decided enough was enough.

[Cycrow]

That's the problem :/ I don't know the first thing about coding... and the more I look into reverse engineering X3 the more complicated it gets. I've tried to download some software and I've looked at the .cat files, but I'm not sure how the cat files relate to the dat files. I've also looked at the script folder and I've deduced that the scripts call on the contents found within the cat files. But the real question is where is the engine, what is the thing that puts this all together. Where's the hull of the ship so to speak. What is it that compiles all this information together. You can't just have a collection of scripts and models and call it a game. there's something that's gotta run it. I suppose I'm looking for the source code. The other problem is there's not a lot out there for tutorials on how to get started even with a simple mod. Adjusting the cat files is near impossible. I'm thinking a person has to extract all the files and folders found within the cat file to a separate folder altogether and work on it that way. That being said, what all does a guy need for tools to finish the job. I would need a graphics editor I'm thinking but which one. I would need a script editor but which one? From what I understand scripts are edited while in game. But you can only edit certain ones. I don't understand how all that works. How would a guy go about modding things like AI and the UI. This is all stuff I just don't have the experience for. This is why I'm calling for several modders to get together to work on the same idea. Maybe someone laying the groundwork and doing all the leg work in getting things organized is exactly what is needed here. I don't know how to script or code or edit graphics but I do know how to write storyline, put ideas down to paper, organize and delegate the work out to the right people. I also have the funds to buy a server and a domain and so on.

The cat/dat files are just containers, the cat file is simply a list of file names, the dat file is the data for all those files.

the source code for the game engine is not accessible, this is compiled and forms the exe file. And source code for games is very rarely released.

I think you may be out of your depth in terms of what you want to do.

There is a reason games cost millions to develop.

Even large scale mods can be difficult and take alot of time and many never get finished/released. Usually those with the skills to do it dont have the time, and those who have the time dont have the skills

[Nicoman35]

That is why XTL is dead, im a 1 man team trying to do the job of 5 - and no one was willing to help

There is a reason games cost millions to develop.

+1
And sometimes even a larger mod takes months and years for a modder to get the things done. Thinking of building a team of modders, working together like a professional development team?
This is something that surpasses the possibilities of most people.
What should I tell my wife and children? That they will have to beg for food to survive, because I am working on something BIG for the next tree years?
Your idea would be good as long - well, as long as we wouldn't have real lives also.

[Morthias]

I haven't modded for X but I did try to build my own games which are X3 like and they all failed. I think I have 5 different unfinished games somewhere on my computer.

Real life gets in the way every single time, perhaps a busy period at work, perhaps a long vacation, perhaps some family issues, (also because I lack 3d moddeling skills and get frustrated)... Writing games and content is difficult and time consuming. To do it outside of your job is even worse, because I am usually tired after work.

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but I don't see how someone would agree to spending their free time working on someone else's ideas. That just feels like work again. My family wouldn't forgive me either.

[Falcrack]

Just get Jack08 and Trixx to finish making X Timelines (or even release a friggin beta of it) and I'll be happy.

Get TrixX to actually do some work for once in a year, and i'd be happy... :/

That is why XTL is dead, im a 1 man team trying to do the job of 5 - and no one was willing to help - Everyone that said they would vanished within a week. I Worked for 3 years before i finally decided enough was enough.

I feel for you man. I'm sorry I have precisely zero skills with regards to programming, or I would have likely helped out, considering how closely your vision of what X3 should and could be be matches my own.

[Aven Valkyr]

yeah :/ It almost makes me want to go to school for programming and learn how to build an engine so I could at least get it all started :/ I know that just the right game to come out it would be such a massive success that it would literally destroy all the competition out there. People are looking for that one specific game to sink their lives into. Even with star citizen, it's still just a wing commander/freelancer style gameplay. Sure you may go from one fighter to the next fighter and maybe even a cargo transporter, and it does things extremely well that egosoft failed brutally hard on, like the first person aspect and walking around stations and your ship. But in the end it's still just a variant of wing commander.

I was thinking in my title, before I started playing X3, how awesome would it be to have like a star trek thing going on, where players go online and play with others and work together to run a single star ship. You would have your choice of whatever, from combat to piloting. Well if you were a pilot and part of the command crew you would have your console interface that gave you information about what the ship is doing and the interface to fly the ship. But it would all be in first person aspect, so you could look around at other people on board the bridge.

Then add the mobile networking on top of that, since many people now have android/Ios phones, tablets and so on. You could make an extension applet that people can download onto their mobile device and play with their console layouts, check what's going on with their friends, do some limited tasks. So even while they were away from their computer and the real gaming experience, they could still log on while on the go and keep their character up to date. This is a niche that has not been tapped. The game itself would be epic, kinda a cross between starshatter and all out war, and star trek with everyone working together to achieve a common goal. It would all be first person.

But you see I'm so full of gaming ideas and I'm extremely inventive. One thing I'm also really good at doing is writing. For a game, although I could not program it, I could certainly lay out all the aspects, write all the storyline, dialogue, interface menu's, etc. But alas, I need to be a part of a community such as going to college that is really interested in building something like this :/