Auto trader questions (ST/UT/CLS/CAG)?

[oddible]

I've been using STs and CLS traders but I have no idea how to evaluate their success. I see a lot of standby time in my R-ships view but I can't seem to see any type of Ledger that shows their performance over time. Is there some sort of view like this? Since pilot cost and jumpdrive energy cost are the only real overhead costs in the game I have zero way of reconciling if I'm breaking even on my automatic traders at this point. How do I know?!

Also, my CLS seems to get stuck at a supplier when his cargo bay is full despite the fact that the destination (selling) location has open spots for a higher price than indicated. Not sure what's happening there - I have to manually unstick them.

[Timsup2nothin]

CLS...The first choice on the menu...um...trader something (trader settings maybe?). Anyway, under that you can see their total flight time, total time since you started them (subtract for standby time), their total pay, and their total profit/loss.

Total profit/loss can be misleading. I often use CLS in pairs, one buys and transfers to a 'warehouse' hulk, another loads from the warehouse and sells. Transfers are 'zero price', so one guy is making a ton selling 'free' goods and the other is losing his butt because he never makes a sale. Even with a single CLS you have to look carefully, because if he is loaded with freight he may have bought more than he has sold in terms of credits and be showing a loss.

You can also set them up to generate a log file you can read with a text editor outside the game...I do that sometimes when something seems horribly wrong, but usually that is only during testing of new (and frankly bizarre) ideas I get sometimes.

[Timsup2nothin]

Also, my CLS seems to get stuck at a supplier when his cargo bay is full despite the fact that the destination (selling) location has open spots for a higher price than indicated. Not sure what's happening there - I have to manually unstick them.

Define 'stuck'.

If they are on 'standby' it is possible that you are watching them too closely. It does take them some time interval to consider their next move. Heavy use of the 'R' screen seems to disrupt smooth operation of their scripts too, like while the R screen is open they don't look for their next move as quickly, but that's just anecdotal.

If they are on 'idle' there are a couple possibilities.

One is that they have been informed of hostiles on the route. CLS pilots are very well informed, and will avoid sectors with hostiles...including the famous Kha'ak cluster that is drifting around way out in the boonies. I look for idling CLS pilots and cross reference to find the problem sector, but I usually have enough CLS ships criss crossing the map for that to be effective. If you just have a couple it can be a PITA.

Another possibility is that you have no money. They land. They buy. They spend all your money doing that. Then they go on strike because you can't pay them. This happens to me now and then early in the game. The real grind is that as soon as they don't get paid they go idle, and they don't look for you to get money, say from some other guy making a sale...once they go on strike they wait an unreasonably long time before they check again.

[oddible]

Well now that I look at it it is primarily the Mk3 Traders that are getting stuck. They get a hold full of energy then go off to buy 2 ore instead of selling the energy first, then they go off to sell the ore and buy 10 of something else, all the while leaving this gob of energy filling their hold while there is a station IN THEIR CURRENT SECTOR which is buying energy for 19.

The other major issue I'm having with auto traders is that I'd really like to limit what they buy but let them wander all over to buy it. CLS is too restrictive - I don't want to have to tell them EXACTLY what station to go to and in what order, I just want to tell them, NEVER trade in firearms, ALWAYS trade in energy and ore, but get them from anywhere and sell them to anywhere. Not sure what I need in order to do that or if it is even possible.

[ajax34i]

Energy cells are used as fuel for the ship's Jump Drive, so Mk 3 traders will eventually accumulate around 1000 units of it in their cargo. The quantity is only vaguely dependent on the "number of jumps" setting you configure in the ship's command console.

But yes, eventually a Mk 3 trader may end up with a cargo full of odds and ends that you have to manually sell by stopping the trader and ordering the ship to "Remote Best Sell" each ware. The trading script is, unfortunately, a simple "look for best deal, go buy as much as possible, go sell as much as they'll take, look for another best deal" and doesn't quite consider "get rid of this stuff before looking for another deal."

You cannot limit auto traders that way in the Vanilla (un-modified) game. I am not sure what player-made mods there are for trading, but there is a nice index of mods posted at the top of the Scripts and Modifications forum.

Sector Traders that are spread over the map but otherwise have a limited range of 2-3 jumps that doesn't cross into a different race's areas have close to the behavior you want; they focus on energy, ore, and the food specific for the area they service, because there are no other deals. And they end up with junk in their cargo much more rarely, because the only deals are food, energy, ore, which they eventually sell off.

There are some specific instances where you have to limit their range to stay out of, say, Herron's Nebula, because they'll go for the illegal space fuel manufactured there and get killed by Argon police, but that's what the blacklist manager is for.

As you can see, some planning is required for configuring your trade fleet. You'll see later that there are quirks to plan around for combat, too, as well as for factory-building and missions. It adds a bit of complexity to the game, and adds to the "Think" component that they advertise on the box.

[oddible]

Thanks. How do you get to the Blacklist Manager? I followed the instructions in the bonus pack for additional options but nothing came up. I do have the bonus pack installed. Is it something I have to reinstall manually?

[jlehtone]

How do you get to the Blacklist Manager?

That has already been answered in your another thread.

[OniGanon]

eventually a Mk 3 trader may end up with a cargo full of odds and ends that you have to manually sell by stopping the trader and ordering the ship to "Remote Best Sell" each ware

Can't say I've really experienced this problem. Any time a ship fails to sell their bought cargo, they give me a message about it and go on standby.

Only problem I've seen is that they hold a somewhat ridiculous amount of jump fuel. Like 800ish for 1 sector jump radius.

[Timsup2nothin]

Well now that I look at it it is primarily the Mk3 Traders that are getting stuck.

As you have noted elsewhere, I clearly favor CLS.

[oddible]

That has already been answered in your another thread.

This is what was posted in the other thread and I still haven't managed to understand or figure it out:

Blacklist Manager is available if you open the command console of a Trade Mk 3 trading ship (a Sector Trader or Universal Trader with an NPC pilot installed and active). You have to add a Trade command to the ship via the console to see it. Once set, the Manager settings apply to all trade ships.

Trade Mk 3 automated traders (ST/UT) don't allow you to blacklist goods.

On one hand it says I need Trade Mk3 to use the blacklist, but then it says the Trade Mk3 doesn't use the blacklist.

Additionally it says I need to add a Trade command (like: Buy 100 energy from xxx for 12???, but doesn't that cancel my sector trading?). So I tried adding the trade command but that doesn't give me any options for additional commands - when I click the Additional Commands it still says None.

My West Argon ST seems to always stock up on Fighter Drones and never sells them. There are several items in the game that don't show up in the Best Sell list (like Aurora Missiles) and while Best Sell doesn't have anything to do with Trade Mk3, it is exactly these same items that get stuck and that the ST won't ever go to a base and specifically sell unless they just happen to come across an Equipment depot for some other reason.

[OniGanon]

Can't remember offhand where the blacklist command is. I think you go to a Mk3 trader's command console and click under Additional Commands.

Higher level Mk3 traders will buy and keep a stock of Fighter Drones. This is normal. It's for self defense against minor attacks.

Missiles won't show up on a Best Sell list unless there's an Equipment Dock in the sector that normally stocks that missile type. You can however still sell those missiles at any Equipment Dock even if it doesn't normally stock them. You just have to do it via manual remote control, or use particular Manual Trade commands.

[oddible]

Two additional questions:

1) My STs keep asking for Fight Command Software, do you usually put this on your STs? What benefit do they get from it - can they not attack enemies at all without it (I don't have any weapons on my trade ships yet anyway).

2) I have confirmed that the Blacklist Manager is NOT part of the Bonus Pack for TC, only for AP. So the reason I was having so much trouble following the instructions was... IT ISNT INSTALLED lol! So there is this mod for TC, I assume this will do this trick right?

[ajax34i]

1. I usually put fight command software on. It lets the traders deploy drones so the enemy is distracted as the trader counts down the 10 seconds required for jump drive activation to bug out of there. It also lets the trader use the rear turret, and mosquito missiles, for missile defense. Again, better survival as it counts down the 10 seconds to jump out.

2. That mod is the one that's included the bonus pack in AP. However, since it's not "signed" by Egosoft officially for TC, if you install it your saved games will become *modified* (you can see this setting at the bottom of your character window in-game), and you lose official technical support. We'll still try to answer questions and solve issues, but if you have a major issue, Egosoft won't look at it until you uninstall the mod and start a new unmodified game from scratch.

3. Blacklist Manager lets you blacklist SECTORS and STATIONS. Does not let you blacklist WARES. That link you posted shows you screenshots of how to access it.

[Timsup2nothin]

1. I usually put fight command software on. It lets the traders deploy drones so the enemy is distracted as the trader counts down the 10 seconds required for jump drive activation to bug out of there. It also lets the trader use the rear turret, and mosquito missiles, for missile defense. Again, better survival as it counts down the 10 seconds to jump out.

While this is a good idea for Mk3 traders, it isn't for CLS/CAG traders. They will avoid sectors with reported hostiles (going idle until the enemy is cleared) so they will very very seldom have any use for the drones...however if you put fight command software on them they will wander off task in search of said drones so they can carry them around. The search for drones can turn into a trek of biblical proportions and always seems to come at the worst possible time.

With CLS/CAG they will pop off with a gun in the turret if you give them a gun in the turret, Ft Com I allows drones, and Ft Com II allows mosquito missiles (which they also won't need but will also wander off to get). I'm pretty sure that's the same for Mk3, but it has been a long time so my memory may be faulty.

[oddible]

<snip>

[oddible]

Is there any way to see a list of my STs and find out which are my most profitable? I've got a handful of better gear / ships and I'd love to assign them to the most profitable STs if possible. Mods / Ledger view, etc?