I want a M7 commandship looking for surgestions

[crawlerw]

I got 44 million.
And I need a M7 that can go up against the Terran forces.

Normally I would go for the Tiger but the lag of hangars makes it less versatile.
Any suggestions are appreciated

[Honved]

First, is this AP or TC?

In TC, I've flown the Split Tiger (briefly, because with only 2 IBLs, it wasn't fully fitted, and I wasn't getting more any time soon), the Boron Thresher (a one-trick pony with an absolutely nasty main battery, but weak in every other respect), the Argon Cerberus (good anti-fighter platform, but weak versus capitals), and the Paranid Diemos (mostly short ranged weaponry, but simply annihilates anything and everything that it gets close to). Never flew the Teladi M7, mainly because of its low speed, but it's got a great reputation due to the Gauss Cannons.

Given the hanger issues with both the Tiger and Thresher, my preference in the buyable M7 category has been the Diemos for almost all applications. Its biggest flaw by far is "friendly fire" issues, but if you're selective about what weapons you have installed, and swap them as needed, you can still use it in friendly sectors. With the "safer" loadout, it's essentially similar to the Cerberus, but with much better shielding. If you need to go into a Xenon or Kha'ak sector, mount the PSGs on all sides and watch everything around it evaporate. Don't bring escorts to the fight, or you won't have them for long. Forget about salvage, because that will vaporize too. In the event of an enemy capital that needs removal, it can mount a pair of IBLs in each side turret, like the Cerberus, but its main battery should be 4-8 PSGs in the nose. Simply charge in, tape down the fire button, and ram, and I've yet to face a ship short of a Tyr that doesn't vanish in a fireball when faced with that kind of abuse. It eats "Q"s like candy. It also docks 5 fighters, has the best shielding of any M7, is about average in speed for its class, and turns no worse than some M6s.

I don't think 44 million will cut it for an M7, once you figure in the cost of arming and shielding it, etc.

[Pol8]

As a fair warning, you'll most likely get at least 5 different opinions, each no more wrong than the other. It'll most likely come down to you buying one of each and trying them yourself. That being said, here's my two cents.

Given that you mentioned fighting the Terrans, I'll assume you're playing AP.
In AP capital combat, two things are very important: Missile defense and hull damage capability.

While the Terrans(not ATF) lack a dedicated M7M, their bombers will make mincemeat of just about anything. They'll fire off ~30 phantoms and retreat behind the nearest Osaka. Wash, rinse and repeat until anything more hostile than a kitchen mixer is turned into a fine vapor.

Secondly, with the new hull buffs, caps take much longer to die. You'll want something that can punch through them, and most weapons don't have the strength to do it quickly.

With those thoughts: a breakdown of each M7.
---
Argon Cerberus: good on MD with all-around flak, heavily lacks in the the anti-capital department. not recommended
Argon Griffon Sentinel: Same as Cerberus, only smaller, with even less anti-cap weapons. not recommended

Boron Thresher: Horrible MD, lacks laser energy to kill Terran caps. not recommended

Teladi Shrike: Has ~ish Missile defense, supplemented with a large cargo bay for mosquito missiles. Massive anti-cap capability. RECOMMENDED, see below

Split Tiger: OK MD, anti-cap weapons hard to acquire. not horrible, but there are better choices.
Split panther: same as tiger

Paranid Demos: Perfect MD, reasonable anti-cap ability. RECOMMENDED, see below
---

The Shrike is my personal favorite for general-purpose mayhem. Fill out the front with either EBC,IBL,or ISR. flak up and down. a PGR and CIG in the rear. GC left and right. Fill bay with 160x mosquitos, lots of wasps, typhoons and hornets. remember to turn on MMD. MMD will spam mosquito at incoming wraith and phantom missiles, while flak will pick off any that get through. At around 20km away from your target, start spamming typhoons. By the time you get into GC range, their shields will be gone, along with a good chunk of hull. Them blast em' with the GC and your spinal battery.

The Demos is a class favorite, although I personally hate the looks of it. Fill the turrets with an ISR an a PSG in each. The ISR will out range the PSG, causing it to fire earlier, thus increasing the range of the PSG. Set the turrets to MD. Anything not shot down by the ISR will be vaporized by the PSG. This includes friendlies too, so be careful. Fill your front battery with PSG and watch as your enemies(and framerate) get destroyed.

Happy Hunting.

[crawlerw]

Nice advise. I was thinking
Argon Griffon Sentinel.

But yes the Paranid Demos is a sound choice.

Thanks for the input

[OniGanon]

You realise a Panther is, essentially, a Tiger with a huge hangar?

[crawlerw]

I know but no front guns

[oddible]

What do you use your hangar for? Do you really send out fighters while in battle? How do you assign them?

44Mil is a bit low. Even the nicely cheap Shrike will eat up half of that, equip it and you're broke before you even get any fighters at all for your hangar.

[Nanook]

What do you use your hangar for? ...

Lot's of players, myself included, like to have a couple of personal fighters on board for tasks we can't accomplish with the M7, things like docking at stations where the Tiger can't, for example. Hangars are a great convenience for general gameplay if you're using an M7 as your main base/command ship.

[Bill Huntington]

If you take Return Ship missions, you can pick up most of M7 class, at the cost of some rep with the race you steal it from. A few missions, and that's covered. Panther never appears this way. But the Tiger and most of the others do. They don't appear all the time, but they do show up perhaps 20% of the time when you have top rep with a race. If you feed the IBL forges and check occasionally, you can get the IBLs you need over time. There's one in Loom, and two in Weaver's.

If the one you want doesn't appear for a while, you'll earn $ to buy one.

IMO, it's hard to top the Hype as a personal flagship, and it's an M6 with punch and two fighter slots too. You can even overtune it in the PP start.

[mistervec]

Just to illustrate Pol8's point, I'm going to pretty much totally disagree with him. He's not wrong at all, but has a much different idea of what to DO with an M7 than I do.

Personally, I'm less interested in raw power than I am in overall utility. I want something fast, reasonably well-shielded, able to handle smaller threats and, with me at the helm, able to take on heavier capital ships. Further, I don't want to have to invest a great deal of prep-time in outfitting it.

To that end, I'd recommend the Astreus.

Why? Because it's fast, reasonably well-shielded, has a usable fighter bay, and is one of the few ships that can mount Plasma Beam Cannons. Its the PBC that make it work, honestly. They aren't devestatingly amazing weapons, but their long range and near scan-hit ability are complimented by the Astreus' good top speed. Once you get the hang of it, it's easy enough to keep a wide distance between your M7 and an opposing M1, dodge everything they fire, while whittling them down with your lateral turrets.

I also really like the Shrike, but not as a personal home-base as it's too slow. If you tend to keep your M7 parked somewhere while you run errands in a fighter and mostly just want storage space and the ability to call in some serious anti-cap fighter power in, then you might like that one better.

Personally, I tend to avoid anything with AoE attacks simply because friendly fire accidents can escalate pretty quickly, so the Paranid M7s aren't as attractive even if they are, in practice, pretty vicious ships. I rarely even use flack cannons for the same reason. I haven't had my M7 blown out from underneath me yet.

[pjknibbs]

I know but no front guns

It *does* have front guns--they just happen to be on a turret rather than controlled from the cockpit!

[Honved]

Sad thing is, I find the Cerberus to be my favorite M7 to fly, until I run into an enemy capital ship. With a human pilot at the controls, another M7 is quite beatable, but an M2 is going to give you a real fight. Add in its usual escorts and you may be in trouble. In that situation, I'd take almost ANY other M7 instead of the Cerberus.

Now, if only I could only find a way to merge the best aspects of a Cerberus and a Tiger, and then make it dockable in most stations.....
....they could call that a "Hyperion" or something.

[RayF]

Have you imposed yourself any restrictions? Like, no capping, or only buying..etc?

[oddible]

To that end, I'd recommend the Astreus.

Words I have yet to hear on the forums! The Astreus (Hauler - yes, OTAS admits its strategic role as fleet support right in the name) isn't a purchasable ship though right? You've got to cap it?

I rarely even use flack cannons for the same reason.

Flak isn't AOE (see other top appearing thread lately) so you don't have to worry about friendly fire. I've yet to experience a friendly fire incident with my Shrike w/ 4xFAAs

[Larxyz]

A m7 ship thats often overlooked is the boron guppy(m7C) and it's paranid counterpart. While crap against other capital ships, it has a nice very nice cargobay and hangarbay, along with decent shield and ability to mount flakh.
AND.... it can dock one TS or an M6!
So could fill that ts with for example heavy missles wasps & typhoons and capital ships aint a problem no more. Not to mention the wing or 2 of heavy fighters.
very versile! both of them.

[oddible]

AND.... it can dock one TS or an M6!

Wait what!? I've never docked anything larger than an M3 in anything. What other ships can dock TSs and M6s?

[ancienthighway]

In TC, nothing without a script. There is one in S&M that will allow TSs to dock on TLs.

[mistervec]

Words I have yet to hear on the forums! The Astreus (Hauler - yes, OTAS admits its strategic role as fleet support right in the name) isn't a purchasable ship though right? You've got to cap it?s

You can buy them in AP. Barring the Astreus, the Cerberus works.

I know the Astreus doesn't get a lot of love as it lacks the potential DPS of the Split frigates or Shrike and has a relatively small cargobay despite it's "Hauler" designation. Further, it can't haul as many fighters as some of the other M7s. On paper, at least, there seem to be much better alternatives.

In practice, however, it's fast, has a narrow forward profile, good weapon compatibility, and is pretty easy to outfit all said and done. It makes for an excellent raiding platform if properly equipped, as well. While it is less than ideal as an anti-capital platform based on the strength of it weaponry, capital ships are still manageable enough if you install some PBCs on it and keep them between 5 and 6 km away. I've taken on M1s and multiple M7s simultaneously in one, so I know its doable if you have some patience.

[OniGanon]

Wait what!? I've never docked anything larger than an M3 in anything. What other ships can dock TSs and M6s?

The Boron Guppy and Paranid Ariadne are of the M7C light carrier class ships. They're AP ships, unavailable in TC. Also, they cannot dock an M6 (or a TM, or an M8). They can dock a single TS or TP, as well as a number of fighters. The other M7C class ships are pretty unremarkable and inferior to just buying a Shrike or an Elephant or something.

Incidentally, I use an Ariadne as my personal ship. With a TS+ and two wings of fighters docked, there's not much it can't handle, from trade to missions to combat.

The Goner Aran can dock the medium size ships, as well as a single capital ship. Amusingly, this includes docking another Aran. There's some pictures floating around the boards of some ridiculous Aranception.

The ATF Valhalla can dock medium size ships, but I can't recall if it can be obtained in TC by any normal means. Clumsy thing anyway, can't even fit through a Gate.

The Terran Kyoto is an M2 in AP, unavailable in TC, that can dock 6 ships up to medium size (that's everything smaller than M7).

[MarvinTheMartian]

IMHO at the M7 end of the fleet market you're going to have to make a compromise somewhere if you want something that can go toe-to-toe with the Terran war fleet and its capitals in particular.

Consider the Tiger versus Panther, both identical in terms of speed/shielding and cargo but with the Panther, for the ability to dock 20 fighters you sacrifice 8 cockpit lasers for 6 in a turret - could be important if you're flying yourself and want control of the main battery and the ability to charge those IBLs You also lose some power from the weapons generator.

Then there's the Deimos versus Agamemnon, again identical in terms of speed, shield, cargo and also weapons generator this time - the trade-off for the 6 ship hangar is the forward turret on the Aggy although the Deimos uses those weapon slots (minus 4) for top/bottom turrets which might be more useful for fighter defence. (and I know you can't but the Aggy but I love it!)

Of course, as always, it depends on your play style and rep with the main races (or role play reasons).
What do you want to hangar for - personal fighters or AI controlled squadron?
Are you looking for a fight or protecting your assets?
What's your combat syle - missiles from afar or up close and personal?
What races can/can't you buy from?
This will determine factors like speed/handling versus shielding/hull strength etc.

In my game I'm using the Astraeus simply for speed otherwise it would have been a Cerberus for the extra guns, weapon reactor and larger cargo hold for missiles. But I also have an Aquilo and Auster on call if I need some assistance to soften the battlefield