I haven't got to the point of experiencing or experimenting with anything yet. Don't have the funds either --- just slowly building up my complexes for the HUB Plot.
I have read quite a few threads on what is good for fighter and capital ship weaponry in IS, as for the player ship.
1. But I haven't found or just missed, what is good for the weaponry for capital ships OOS.
As for fighters, I have read that RPGs are good IS, but HEPTs are better OOS.
2. Also, the missiles/torpedoes OOS --- are they used in calculations or it is just a waste of money?
TY
X3TC Weapons IS/OOS Question
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In-sector, with you there, physics and collisions are enabled, so weapons that have fast bullets that can track the target are good.
Out-of-sector, physics and collisions are disabled, and combat is a turn-based calculation, with each ship shooting all its weapons once per turn. This screws rapid-fire weapons royally.
So, for OOS, you want:
- laser weapons (the ship's small reactor doesn't matter).
- biggest weapons (typically for M7 frigates, the IBL is king; for smaller ships you want the biggest damage-per-bullet guns that you can fit).
- biggest shields (whoever shoots first usually wins; if your ship loses the initiative roll, it has to survive the enemy's IBL volley so it can then get its turn).
Some websites, like for example eng.x3tc.ru give you the per-shot damage stats, rather than the DPS (per second) stats. Helps to choose weapons for OOS.
But really, it's more about choosing the ships, with the Agamemnon being the perfect example of how the whole thing works:
In-sector, the ship has huge blind spots above and below, and runs out of weapons energy after only a few shots of its IBLs. Plus it can't even aim them correctly, because they are turrets, and typically only 4 IBLs face the enemy. A Shrike with 8 IBL's in the front will kill an Agamemnon easily, especially if you fly the Shrike and overload the shots and aim them right.
OOS, on the other hand, the Agamemnon shields are king in the M7 frigate class, and all 12 IBLs will hit with each shot. A Shrike will usually get killed because it only has 8 IBL's and 4 GJ shielding, vs. 12 and 6, so the computer will calculate an Agamemnon win most of the time.
Who shoots first matters a lot too. An M7 Xenon Q can take out your M2's, because it typically shoots first, and can "randomly" have 8 IBL as its front guns - only super-shielded M2's like the Tyr can survive its first shot OOS. Otherwise, if the Q happens to shoot second, there's no contest between any M2 with typically 24-32 PPC guns vs. an M7 with only 4 GJ shielding.
Out-of-sector, physics and collisions are disabled, and combat is a turn-based calculation, with each ship shooting all its weapons once per turn. This screws rapid-fire weapons royally.
So, for OOS, you want:
- laser weapons (the ship's small reactor doesn't matter).
- biggest weapons (typically for M7 frigates, the IBL is king; for smaller ships you want the biggest damage-per-bullet guns that you can fit).
- biggest shields (whoever shoots first usually wins; if your ship loses the initiative roll, it has to survive the enemy's IBL volley so it can then get its turn).
Some websites, like for example eng.x3tc.ru give you the per-shot damage stats, rather than the DPS (per second) stats. Helps to choose weapons for OOS.
But really, it's more about choosing the ships, with the Agamemnon being the perfect example of how the whole thing works:
In-sector, the ship has huge blind spots above and below, and runs out of weapons energy after only a few shots of its IBLs. Plus it can't even aim them correctly, because they are turrets, and typically only 4 IBLs face the enemy. A Shrike with 8 IBL's in the front will kill an Agamemnon easily, especially if you fly the Shrike and overload the shots and aim them right.
OOS, on the other hand, the Agamemnon shields are king in the M7 frigate class, and all 12 IBLs will hit with each shot. A Shrike will usually get killed because it only has 8 IBL's and 4 GJ shielding, vs. 12 and 6, so the computer will calculate an Agamemnon win most of the time.
Who shoots first matters a lot too. An M7 Xenon Q can take out your M2's, because it typically shoots first, and can "randomly" have 8 IBL as its front guns - only super-shielded M2's like the Tyr can survive its first shot OOS. Otherwise, if the Q happens to shoot second, there's no contest between any M2 with typically 24-32 PPC guns vs. an M7 with only 4 GJ shielding.
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Black_hole_suN
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Thu, 2. Aug 12, 07:30
OOS battles is a round based system where 1 round last from 5 sec. if you are watching and 30 sec. if you are not. The fastest ship fires first.
for OOS weapons - just use the gun with the biggest damage. energy drain, weapons range, firerate, and other stuff rarely matters. Ammo-based weapons consume one crate of ammo per round so it is not practical to use them OOS. Area damage weapons (PBG, PSG) do not do any area damage OOS..
for missiles - Your ship will try to choose it will fire ONE missile or fire all guns in a round -- and if that one missile happens to be a mosquito... you get the idea.. dont use them unless it is a firestorm/hammerhead and your ship is a fighter.. basically just set you missile fire probability to 0 in OOS battles..
for OOS weapons - just use the gun with the biggest damage. energy drain, weapons range, firerate, and other stuff rarely matters. Ammo-based weapons consume one crate of ammo per round so it is not practical to use them OOS. Area damage weapons (PBG, PSG) do not do any area damage OOS..
for missiles - Your ship will try to choose it will fire ONE missile or fire all guns in a round -- and if that one missile happens to be a mosquito... you get the idea.. dont use them unless it is a firestorm/hammerhead and your ship is a fighter.. basically just set you missile fire probability to 0 in OOS battles..
I have read that Q is a menace in OOS. I have seen it in the game myself. But never figured out how do deal with it myself, since my framerate drops bad when I enter the sector that has my complex in. And I have read that this is the usual problem with Qs (haven't gone nuts on my fighter rank, but worry about the future)"Who shoots first matters a lot too. An M7 Xenon Q can take out your M2's, because it typically shoots first"
If IBL is out of the question?
Don't really want to restart the game.
So no hammerheads? Shucksdont use them unless it is a firestorm/hammerhead and your ship is a fighter.. basically just set you missile fire probability to 0 in OOS battles..
that would be an exploit otherwise, I guess.
If IBLs are out of the question your best alternative is to move up to an M2 and stuff it with heavy hitters like PPCs or PSPs in every turret that can mount it. If you plan on buying your ships the Terran Osaka is probably the best, and if you're planning on going on a capping spree the Tyr is a good candidate. You can also use the Boreas, but with only 10 GJ of shielding it's a bit more of a hit-or-miss.
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The problem with a Q is that faster ships get to fire first in OOS combat, so a Q gets to unleash its main battery before almost any other M7, M1, or M2. Few ships can survive that initial volley if all guns hit. That means, the Q can ofen engage multiple targets one at a time, and kill each of them in succession without ever taking any damage in return.
One "trick" is to toss a few fighters into the mix, and hope that the Q wastes its shots on an M5 or M4 instead of a capital ship (all guns fire at ONE target), so hopefully your capital ship lives long enough to shoot.
As pointed out in previous posts, Damage Per Shot is more important than Damage Per Second in OOS combat, while energy usage, bullet speed, and other factors that play a big part in In-System combat aren't considered at all. For an M3 fighter, HEPT is generally ideal, as is CIG for an M6, IBL for an M7, and PPC for an M1/M2. There are a few exceptions, such as the Boron Thresher and Teladi Shrike that can take bigger guns (PPC and GC, respectively).
One "trick" is to toss a few fighters into the mix, and hope that the Q wastes its shots on an M5 or M4 instead of a capital ship (all guns fire at ONE target), so hopefully your capital ship lives long enough to shoot.
As pointed out in previous posts, Damage Per Shot is more important than Damage Per Second in OOS combat, while energy usage, bullet speed, and other factors that play a big part in In-System combat aren't considered at all. For an M3 fighter, HEPT is generally ideal, as is CIG for an M6, IBL for an M7, and PPC for an M1/M2. There are a few exceptions, such as the Boron Thresher and Teladi Shrike that can take bigger guns (PPC and GC, respectively).
Best way to deal with a Q is to have a Rapid Response M7 (Shrike or Tiger with IBLs, or M8 or M7M with missiles) that YOU can jump into and go kill the Q personally.
Second best way, send in a Tyr with full shields that can survive the initial out-of-sector volley from the Q.
Third best way is to blockade your outer gates with an M2 surrounded by a few dozen lasertowers right on top of each gate. Xenon ships don't jump into the middle of your area, they always migrate from a Xenon area through civilized space, flying about the slow way. So if you blockade your border gates, no Q will ever reach your core areas or your traders.
Second best way, send in a Tyr with full shields that can survive the initial out-of-sector volley from the Q.
Third best way is to blockade your outer gates with an M2 surrounded by a few dozen lasertowers right on top of each gate. Xenon ships don't jump into the middle of your area, they always migrate from a Xenon area through civilized space, flying about the slow way. So if you blockade your border gates, no Q will ever reach your core areas or your traders.
This way one can just contain Xenon sectors and don't worry about personal borders, no?Third best way is to blockade your outer gates with an M2 surrounded by a few dozen lasertowers right on top of each gate. Xenon ships don't jump into the middle of your area, they always migrate from a Xenon area through civilized space, flying about the slow way. So if you blockade your border gates, no Q will ever reach your core areas or your traders.
The "problem" I see in this third best way is that pirate ships will also be destroyed. Or Yaki.
And some are friendlier than others and I don't really look forward to decrease my rep (to a full hatred) with them just yet
Tyr... sounds yummy, but have -10 experience in capping just about anything
Terran Vidar would be a good choice for a player controlled response M7? Never flew it though
Sooo... would I have fighters and M2 patrol the sector, or just sit around waiting for an attack?One "trick" is to toss a few fighters into the mix, and hope that the Q wastes its shots on an M5 or M4 instead of a capital ship (all guns fire at ONE target), so hopefully your capital ship lives long enough to shoot.
Just wondering how to take care of bad guys, but getting rep worse with semi-bad. Or it is a slippery slope?
Thank you very much, guys. I think I got the basics of OOS combat with capital ships.
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mouser9169
- Posts: 107
- Joined: Mon, 10. Feb 14, 22:50
This is why Panther's are so damn good.Cayo124 wrote:This way one can just contain Xenon sectors and don't worry about personal borders, no?Third best way is to blockade your outer gates with an M2 surrounded by a few dozen lasertowers right on top of each gate. Xenon ships don't jump into the middle of your area, they always migrate from a Xenon area through civilized space, flying about the slow way. So if you blockade your border gates, no Q will ever reach your core areas or your traders.
The "problem" I see in this third best way is that pirate ships will also be destroyed. Or Yaki.
And some are friendlier than others and I don't really look forward to decrease my rep (to a full hatred) with them just yet
Tyr... sounds yummy, but have -10 experience in capping just about anything
Terran Vidar would be a good choice for a player controlled response M7? Never flew it though
Sooo... would I have fighters and M2 patrol the sector, or just sit around waiting for an attack?One "trick" is to toss a few fighters into the mix, and hope that the Q wastes its shots on an M5 or M4 instead of a capital ship (all guns fire at ONE target), so hopefully your capital ship lives long enough to shoot.
Just wondering how to take care of bad guys, but getting rep worse with semi-bad. Or it is a slippery slope?
Thank you very much, guys. I think I got the basics of OOS combat with capital ships.
32 little flying meat shields to soak up some of those shots while the big (medium) ship goes to town. If you have more than one ship, even better (maybe). If you get the first shot, you may just skate by without losses. If you don't, you'll probably lose a few ships, but the Q will still be dead, and your Panther will still be there (odds of targeting Panther in furball of 33 ships is not all that high. I'm not sure on that though, the Q may weight 'heavier' ships).
IIRC, the problem comes in if you're in a sector with potentially both pirates and Xenon, and you don't want your ships attacking red pirates. You need to keep the fighters undocked then (or they may be destroyed before they ever get a chance to respond).
Take what I say with a grain of salt, since I'm going off memory for the most part.
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ancienthighway
- Posts: 1663
- Joined: Tue, 24. Apr 07, 05:25
Patrols, in my experience, have the tendency to be in the wrong place when needed. I've taken to leaving a combat group parked around complexes and give them a Defend Position (10km radius) command. Depending on the size of your complex, it may take more than one.Sooo... would I have fighters and M2 patrol the sector, or just sit around waiting for an attack?
In Hatikvah's Faith I have a small space fuel/weed complex set in the NE quadrant off of the N-E route and up a bit. Red pirates can fly that route and never come within 10km of the task force. Those that do come up that way are going to attack the complex, so those I do want to attack.
Ahh, that is what I was looking for. So some DO go for attack and some DON'T.Red pirates can fly that route and never come within 10km of the task force. Those that do come up that way are going to attack the complex, so those I do want to attack.
But Complex still needs to be away from major routes, far enough to differentiate from potential attackers and the real ones.
PS: I don't really like patrols for that same reason of yours.
I had the experience of fighters docked in complex and pirates attacking it. I flew in and $%^# hit the fan, when my m3s died against my complex, while I was actually doing the battle.IIRC, the problem comes in if you're in a sector with potentially both pirates and Xenon, and you don't want your ships attacking red pirates. You need to keep the fighters undocked then (or they may be destroyed before they ever get a chance to respond).
Very sad sight