[X3:AP] Stations that buy illegal products for more than average

[Xtynct]

Could anyone tell me which/where stations will buy the illegal products (Space Weed and Space Fuel mainly) for more than their average price?

I know of 2, the free trade station in Herron's Nebula will buy Space Fuel for max price, and I believe the trading port in Family Whi will buy Space Weed for max price, are there others?

I've been looking for others, but most of the places I find are trade stations that only buy them for average price.

[Timsup2nothin]

There's a trading station in Akeela's beacon that buys ... both, maybe? Fuel for sure. Pirate bases buy both, and if they are in a sector where it is illegal they pay max. The reason most trading stations you see buying spaceweed pay average is because they are in Teladi space where it isn't illegal. I suggest pirate bases.

[Jimmy C]

Keep your eye on the PBG and IBL forges in Void of Opportunity, LooManckStrat's Legacy and Danna's Chance.
Since the IBL forge in Loo is like the only convenient one outside Yaki space, make sure you hack it when the option comes up.

[Xtynct]

Oh nice, Akeela's Beacon has an Argon and a Teladi station, Argon buys Space Fuel for max, Teladi buys Space weed for max, thanks.

[OniGanon]

Well, Pirate and Yaki weapon forges use Space Fuel as a Primary Resource (and Weed as a Secondary). So you could try hitting up sectors like Danna's Chance or LooManckStrat's Legacy.

One sector pretty much guaranteed to buy Fuel at max price is Weaver's Tempest. But of course you have to be on positive terms with the Yaki to enter there or they will attack you without warning.

Weaver's Tempest has two IBL forges and two Distilleries to feed them, but the sector needs Energy, Ore and Wheat to get up and running so that the Fuel keeps getting produced and consumed.

[ancienthighway]

In traveling through race sectors to reach your buyer, the police may scan you. If that happens, the illegal good will be dumped and you get a small hit on your rep.

With Akeela's Beacon being so big, that's a lot of travel time to the trading stations to make your sell. Keep an eye out for pirate bases in race sectors. They tend to be off the beaten path, so you can jump in and head away from normal police activity to make the sell at max price (unless it's space weed in Teladi space).

[DiArmada]

In traveling through race sectors to reach your buyer, the police may scan you. If that happens, the illegal good will be dumped and you get a small hit on your rep.

this is a unnecessary risk though, why not let the NPC's get the stuff themselves?

[ancienthighway]

Exactly. In selling it yourself, especially if you limit yourself to max price buyers, you are at the mercy of how long it takes to "consume" stocks, the police, and limited amount of sells per station.

Letting the NPCs come to your station removes all of those issues and in the long run will make you more money selling at average -1 than selling to stations at maximum price.

[Xtynct]

I don't have any stations yet (well I have 1 but its not illegal goods), so I can't use the npcs.

I haven't been playing that long, but it doesn't really seem that difficult to avoid the police; you can see them with the gravidar and know if they're close, you can wait at a station where they can't scan you, and with a jump drive it's not that much travel.

Exactly. In selling it yourself, especially if you limit yourself to max price buyers, you are at the mercy of how long it takes to "consume" stocks, the police, and limited amount of sells per station.

Letting the NPCs come to your station removes all of those issues and in the long run will make you more money selling at average -1 than selling to stations at maximum price.

Not that it matters, I understand what you're saying, it is easier to just let the npcs move the illegal goods for you, but the npcs are also subjected to those same restrictions, are they not? They also are limited by how long it takes to consume the stocks, as well as limited amounts per station, they sell the goods to the same places that you could manually.

Also, in the long run would you not theoretically make twice as much if you sold products for max price yourself, instead of average - 1 to the npc ships?

[ancienthighway]

Don't confuse your AI ships with NPCs. NPCs are all those blue and red ships you see flying around. Yes, AI and NPC ships are subject to scanning and cargo dumping as well, but you really don't care about the NPCs. If they bought your space fuel or space weed, you've already made your money.

It sounds though like you are still in a somewhat young game trying to get the credits to start your empire. That police activity AI ships can't avoid will dig deep into profits. Limitations on what Trading Stations will buy will also limit how much and how often you can sell.

In TC, buying space fuel in Herron's Nebula, I've had acceptable gains selling to the trading station there and the pirate base in Atreus Clouds before the Boron finally destroy it. Once I found the pirate based in Company Pride and Bad Debt though, I can jump to them and quickly be away from police scans due to their location. Max price for space fuel for both of them. My last game I even had a pirate station in Treasure Chest north of the north gate, so i could jump in, avoid scans and sell both SF and SW at max price. But in the end I gave up on them due to the limited sells I was able to make, and just let the NPCs come to my production facilities.

[Timsup2nothin]

I use small ships distributing small quantities. Small ships=fast, which makes getting scanned very unlikely. Small ships=small quantities, which means if they do get scanned and dump freight it's a small loss. Small quantities also means the buyer isn't likely to fill up even with their low consumption rate.

Of course I'm not trying to unload the output from a hundred factory complex and convince myself the market isn't flooded either.

[ancienthighway]

I went with the Iguana Vanguard initially with enough fuel to jump from Herron's Nebula to Atreus Clouds and back, and 166 SF. Two TS (CLS2) would purchase from the two SF factories, and the TP pick up from them.

As far as small ships, speed and cargo hold are the important factors. You just have to be faster than the police M5s and have the largest hold you can get. Any of the Harrier or Pegasus variants (except Sentinel) would work. The Yaki Fujin and Terran Rapier also. In M4's, any Mako variant except Sentinal would do well. A Buzzard Hauler would work if you can live with the speed. There are a couple M3s that could do the job as well, but they are more valuable as player ships, IMO.

When I was selling from my own factory, going for those destinations out of the normal scan areas, I'd use TPs with the max I could sell per station, 166 SF, 40 SW, and jump fuel to get to two stops and return (worked perfectly for a Toucan Hauler, but other ships with smaller cargo holds may only get one stop).

[Nanook]

...
Also, in the long run would you not theoretically make twice as much if you sold products for max price yourself, instead of average - 1 to the npc ships?

Absolutely not. And the main reason is the limited number of buyers in the universe. The system of selling to the NPC's at average -1 works so well because it depends on most of the NPC ships not making it to their destinations, eg. an NPC buys your spacefuel, gets scanned by police or destroyed by pirates along its journey, and another NPC spawns to buy your goods. It's been shown many times that a player can build and profit from massive illegal goods factories, mostly because of such NPC attrition.

Besides, there's simply no way you could sell very much product if you used your own ships to fly it there using jumpdrives (the only real way to keep your ships from being destroyed enroute). You'd have to wait for each buyer's stock to drop to zero before you could sell at max price. But that would rarely happen because an NPC trader would buy from an NPC factory and beat you to it.

[Timsup2nothin]

...
Also, in the long run would you not theoretically make twice as much if you sold products for max price yourself, instead of average - 1 to the npc ships?

Absolutely not. And the main reason is the limited number of buyers in the universe. The system of selling to the NPC's at average -1 works so well because it depends on most of the NPC ships not making it to their destinations, eg. an NPC buys your spacefuel, gets scanned by police or destroyed by pirates along its journey, and another NPC spawns to buy your goods. It's been shown many times that a player can build and profit from massive illegal goods factories, mostly because of such NPC attrition.

Besides, there's simply no way you could sell very much product if you used your own ships to fly it there using jumpdrives (the only real way to keep your ships from being destroyed enroute). You'd have to wait for each buyer's stock to drop to zero before you could sell at max price. But that would rarely happen because an NPC trader would buy from an NPC factory and beat you to it.

Well, if you sell small quantities to pirate bases in appropriate sectors they pay max even for the small quantities. I also disagree with jumpdrives as 'the only way to keep ships from being destroyed en route'. I've had Discos full of fuel flying about the universe in large numbers with minimal losses many times.

You are absolutely correct that you can sell vast quantities at avg-1 to the false market of destroyed ships, however. I personally don't go out of my way to supply that market, but I know many people do and that it does work.

[hisazul]

...
Also, in the long run would you not theoretically make twice as much if you sold products for max price yourself, instead of average - 1 to the npc ships?

Absolutely not. And the main reason is the limited number of buyers in the universe. The system of selling to the NPC's at average -1 works so well because it depends on most of the NPC ships not making it to their destinations, eg. an NPC buys your spacefuel, gets scanned by police or destroyed by pirates along its journey, and another NPC spawns to buy your goods. It's been shown many times that a player can build and profit from massive illegal goods factories, mostly because of such NPC attrition.

Besides, there's simply no way you could sell very much product if you used your own ships to fly it there using jumpdrives (the only real way to keep your ships from being destroyed enroute). You'd have to wait for each buyer's stock to drop to zero before you could sell at max price. But that would rarely happen because an NPC trader would buy from an NPC factory and beat you to it.

Build illegal plex in Senators Badlands... npcs will flock to buy that weed... but they aren't very likely to leave. Side benefit from time to time you can collect the stuff you sold em and just put it back lol.

[DiArmada]

the main reason why I'm selling automatically from my complexes at average -1 is because it's automated.
once it is operational it requires zero attention while credits keep coming continuously.
the time which is required to sell it manually is now used for missions and what not.
that way I have the feeling I'm making credits much faster.

[Nanook]

...
Also, in the long run would you not theoretically make twice as much if you sold products for max price yourself, instead of average - 1 to the npc ships?

Absolutely not. And the main reason is the limited number of buyers in the universe. The system of selling to the NPC's at average -1 works so well because it depends on most of the NPC ships not making it to their destinations, eg. an NPC buys your spacefuel, gets scanned by police or destroyed by pirates along its journey, and another NPC spawns to buy your goods. It's been shown many times that a player can build and profit from massive illegal goods factories, mostly because of such NPC attrition.

Besides, there's simply no way you could sell very much product if you used your own ships to fly it there using jumpdrives (the only real way to keep your ships from being destroyed enroute). You'd have to wait for each buyer's stock to drop to zero before you could sell at max price. But that would rarely happen because an NPC trader would buy from an NPC factory and beat you to it.

Well, if you sell small quantities to pirate bases in appropriate sectors they pay max even for the small quantities. I also disagree with jumpdrives as 'the only way to keep ships from being destroyed en route'. I've had Discos full of fuel flying about the universe in large numbers with minimal losses many times.

You are absolutely correct that you can sell vast quantities at avg-1 to the false market of destroyed ships, however. I personally don't go out of my way to supply that market, but I know many people do and that it does work.

Which was my whole point:

...
Also, in the long run would you not theoretically make twice as much if you sold products for max price yourself, instead of average - 1 to the npc ships?

To me, that means he's exploring the idea of doing just that, supplying the NPC's, with as much as he can sell.

As for your Disco comment, good for you. But that is not an efficient way to sell large quantities, which, once again, was my point. I'd also be willing to bet that a significant number of your Discos, probably one in ten, lost their cargo due to police scanning that you probably never noticed. It's not like they tell you these things. They just return to base for a new load (I'm assuming you're using CLS here).

Then again, I'm puzzled by the 'large numbers' of Discos flying around selling spacefuel. There simply aren't enough buyers of spacefuel to warrant what I'd consider 'large numbers' of sellers. Not to mention that there are only a very few pirate bases, out of the 14 that are in the game at any one time, that will buy spacefuel at max price. Most offer just average, and some places only buy at near minimum (828, as I recall).

In short, in my experience, it's simply not economically viable to waste even a single selling ship on spacefuel when the NPC's will willing take as much as you can produce at just below average price. I wouldn't think your little CLS discos would be profitable at all, considering the union wages you have to pay the pilots.

[Timsup2nothin]

As for your Disco comment, good for you. But that is not an efficient way to sell large quantities, which, once again, was my point. I'd also be willing to bet that a significant number of your Discos, probably one in ten, lost their cargo due to police scanning that you probably never noticed. It's not like they tell you these things. They just return to base for a new load (I'm assuming you're using CLS here).

Then again, I'm puzzled by the 'large numbers' of Discos flying around selling spacefuel. There simply aren't enough buyers of spacefuel to warrant what I'd consider 'large numbers' of sellers. Not to mention that there are only a very few pirate bases, out of the 14 that are in the game at any one time, that will buy spacefuel at max price. Most offer just average, and some places only buy at near minimum (828, as I recall).

In short, in my experience, it's simply not economically viable to waste even a single selling ship on spacefuel when the NPC's will willing take as much as you can produce at just below average price. I wouldn't think your little CLS discos would be profitable at all, considering the union wages you have to pay the pilots.

I usually don't make any at all, so I don't have to worry about selling large quantities. I buy all that the two distilleries in Herron's produce at something below average price. Every pirate base or trading station I find that pays max gets a number of discos based on how far away it is (unless it is so poorly placed that it just won't work...I'm lookin' at you unknown Terran sectors!).

Between sales of space fuel at max price and the profits from keeping the stills supplied with wheat and e-cells the station makes a fair profit in credits...and my storage tanks are constantly filling with fuel at a fairly good clip. That allows me to say yes whenever I run into a 'bring me two hundred space fuel in twelve minutes and I'll pay you double the max price (and sometimes more)'.

I know people who have huge plexes can also fulfill those missions, but my setup only requires two M wheat farms and some scrap ships so I can usually have it up and running within a couple hours at the start of a game.

As to the union wages...they are negligible really, but if they weren't I could just turn off their promotions. None of the pilots required ever actually have to rise above apprentice since they all only have two stops anyway. They are my biggest source of experienced pilots though, so I don't do that.

[phoenix-it]

I build closed loops, including energy in Freedom's Reach.

I typically start with 2 complexes, 1 L Wheat & Space Fuel and 1 L Dream and Spaceweed. Have them sell for average -1. Once they've made enough money, add 2 more to each. Use a couple of fully expanded Mistral SF's to jump in energy, don't have them fly through pirate space. Once I've settled other needs I go grab the stations to build full power loops, as there are plenty of silicon roids there to support that. If you do this, try to build so your complex docs are at the edge of gate elliptic and your factories are in the "zoomed out" map area. You will have docking issues IS as those junkie's begin to build up in the system. (And, you finally figure out what "couriers" are really up to.)

Pirates will wander in occasionally, but they'll slowly become more friendly because pirate smugglers will be buying from your stations. That said, while I've seen the occasional fighter in FR, I've never seen the pirate OR empire capitols come there. An Osprey on patrol with some Falcon Haulers or Sentinels should be able to handle anything that wanders in.

An added benefit is the pirate factories in the next sector won't get decommissioned by the game engine, because they'll actually be fed with resources. Personally, I hate the TC/AP economy, it's broke as hell and I've never been able to start a game were stations didn't start going missing 2 hours in. This happens mainly because they receive every resource except energy for about the first 48 hours. I have to manually trade energy to stations I want saved pretty early or they're gone later.