Why are mounted weapons taking up cargo space?

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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samoja
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Why are mounted weapons taking up cargo space?

Post by samoja » Fri, 27. Jun 14, 00:05

For shields it is could be somewhat plausible, ok they just hooked them up inside the cargo bay and powered them up, farfetched but plausible, but weapons are OUTSIDE the hull, i saw them myself, what are they doing taking up space in cargo hold?

phoenix-it
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Post by phoenix-it » Fri, 27. Jun 14, 01:04

Why can't I "reserve" energy for my jump drive so it isn't counted when I go to sell or transfer energy at a station?

Why can't some equipment be bought in quantity and carried to ships elsewhere? (Jumpdrives) Heck, it can even be ejected...

Why can't I type a number during trades?

Why do wiener dogs (Dachshund) look like wieners?

Hint: You're about as equally likely to get an answer for any one of these questions as the other.

:lol:
Anyone else notice how the Dovakiin & Dragons in Skyrim kinda sorta resemble the Immortals from Highlander? Every time a dragon dies I hear, "There can be only one."

ancienthighway
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Post by ancienthighway » Fri, 27. Jun 14, 05:44

Why can't I type a number during trades?
You can. Before you start the trade, type in the number you want to trade, then execute it. It changes the counter of how many items to trade at one time. Backspace to clear it, then type in another number for the next trade. Leave the number alone and trade something with a lessor quantity, and the number updates to the lessor quantity.

pjknibbs
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Re: Why are mounted weapons taking up cargo space?

Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 27. Jun 14, 08:48

samoja wrote:For shields it is could be somewhat plausible, ok they just hooked them up inside the cargo bay and powered them up, farfetched but plausible, but weapons are OUTSIDE the hull, i saw them myself, what are they doing taking up space in cargo hold?
Because the bit you see on the outside of the ship is just the barrel of the weapon--the actual power systems that generate whatever pulse the weapon fires (or the ammo feeders, in the case of ammo-based weapons) live inside the hull, taking up cargo space.

hisazul
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Post by hisazul » Fri, 27. Jun 14, 10:03

Example:
You have an engine...
Lets say its about an equivalent to a jet planes engine...
Now lets strap a building to it...

Do you see any useful result from that?

Its why you can't strap 1000 rockets together and tie a car to it and expect something from it. They will rip it apart before you can even blink. There is stress and there is limit to propulsion systems output. Yeah its in space and all that... but passing by a large enough asteroid and getting into its gravitation field that engine still needs to be able to overpower gravitational pull and pull the entire contraption in the desired direction instead of just... you know... crashing.

And that is all before the imaginary parts... a weapon, as was stated before, still has to fit its systems inside the ship... it has to have enough juice to be powered up... and all that stuff. And don't forget about flying space rocks... which would go right though anything not "shielded" enough in some way, radiation, exposure to extreme elements such as heat/cold, blah blah blah... I could go on forever :P
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

Alan Phipps
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Post by Alan Phipps » Fri, 27. Jun 14, 13:13

"Why can't some equipment be bought in quantity and carried to ships elsewhere? (Jumpdrives) Heck, it can even be ejected... "

The stated reason for inability to supply/carry them in bulk is that such software/hardware ship extensions have to be specially-fitted and interfaced to the particular ship at the point of supply. So the real issue is not that you can eject them, but is that they should not work in a ship that picks them up from space, or by use of a transporter device or by transfer while docked. Perhaps they should be ejected or transferred as a ware called 'debris' and of no further value? That may annoy some players though ... :roll:

A logical alternative would be for ships to be able to buy cheap 'universal installation/mounting kits' at docks that later permit such transfers etc whilst not themselves giving the extension functionality until the relevant devices/softwares are obtained by transfer. Oh, and the installation kits should take up cargo space too ...
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

phoenix-it
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Post by phoenix-it » Sat, 28. Jun 14, 22:39

Alan Phipps wrote:"Why can't some equipment be bought in quantity and carried to ships elsewhere? (Jumpdrives) Heck, it can even be ejected... "

The stated reason for inability to supply/carry them in bulk is that such software/hardware ship extensions have to be specially-fitted and interfaced to the particular ship at the point of supply. So the real issue is not that you can eject them, but is that they should not work in a ship that picks them up from space, or by use of a transporter device or by transfer while docked. Perhaps they should be ejected or transferred as a ware called 'debris' and of no further value? That may annoy some players though ... :roll:

A logical alternative would be for ships to be able to buy cheap 'universal installation/mounting kits' at docks that later permit such transfers etc whilst not themselves giving the extension functionality until the relevant devices/softwares are obtained by transfer. Oh, and the installation kits should take up cargo space too ...
Inconvenience != Challenge
Annoying Mechanics != Difficulty
Player Frustration != Deep and/or Engaging Game Play

While the right side of those statements sometimes qualify as what is on the left, one does not automatically equal another.

The bottom line is that there are simply better ways to engage the player than making them ferry ships to purchase jump drives and other equipment. For instance: Player equipment docs could purchase blueprints for upgrades, like jump drives, and making such wares available for installation could have a credit and material expense, ala PHQ ship repairs. OR: The player could research this equipment by building a research center and filling it with resources... or even both of these. For large ships, how about a jump-tugboat. Granted, there's the Aran now, but that wasn't the case before.

I recently read an interview where Ego said they view things like cargo compression as cheats.

Really?

Then why introduce the mechanic? Player complaints? Perhaps the issue was less cargo size and more lack of diversity in trade ships. Perhaps some people like the idea of piloting a trade ship but find the pace of 60 m/s to be so detestably slow that they'd sooner whittle wood.
Anyone else notice how the Dovakiin & Dragons in Skyrim kinda sorta resemble the Immortals from Highlander? Every time a dragon dies I hear, "There can be only one."

samoja
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Post by samoja » Sat, 28. Jun 14, 23:12

I recently read an interview where Ego said they view things like cargo compression as cheats.

Really?

Then why introduce the mechanic? Player complaints? Perhaps the issue was less cargo size and more lack of diversity in trade ships. Perhaps some people like the idea of piloting a trade ship but find the pace of 60 m/s to be so detestably slow that they'd sooner whittle wood.
Yeah, Sorry to ruin their revision attitude but Ego is hardly the first to come up wit the ship that is bigger from the inside then from the outside, Dr. Who did it like idk 30 years before Ego even existed. The way i see it when you walk into a room under subspace compression field you have a feeling you are entering a large room but in actuality you are getting smaller, along with everything else, but as photons are affected as well you can never tell the difference, and neither can anybody outside, the room is not rely any bigger, it just appears that way, in fact everything inside is smaller including the photons, and once photons exit the field they suddenly grow back to their original size giving seeming as tough objects are bigger then they actually are.

phoenix-it
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Post by phoenix-it » Sat, 28. Jun 14, 23:57

samoja wrote:
I recently read an interview where Ego said they view things like cargo compression as cheats.

Really?

Then why introduce the mechanic? Player complaints? Perhaps the issue was less cargo size and more lack of diversity in trade ships. Perhaps some people like the idea of piloting a trade ship but find the pace of 60 m/s to be so detestably slow that they'd sooner whittle wood.
Yeah, Sorry to ruin their revision attitude but Ego is hardly the first to come up wit the ship that is bigger from the inside then from the outside, Dr. Who did it like idk 30 years before Ego even existed. The way i see it when you walk into a room under subspace compression field you have a feeling you are entering a large room but in actuality you are getting smaller, along with everything else, but as photons are affected as well you can never tell the difference, and neither can anybody outside, the room is not rely any bigger, it just appears that way, in fact everything inside is smaller including the photons, and once photons exit the field they suddenly grow back to their original size giving seeming as tough objects are bigger then they actually are.
The article didn't say why they objected. i.e. The sci-fi, or the mechanic or simply from a design perspective. Moreover, I don't know why they introduced a mechanic they apparently don't like. All I know is that, back in '87, trading goods in a Cobra Mk III didn't feel nearly as obnoxious as sitting behind the wheel of a Dolphin XL does in X3~. Perhaps the answer is to make it feel less like a flying brick instead of finding a way to make it hold more.
Anyone else notice how the Dovakiin & Dragons in Skyrim kinda sorta resemble the Immortals from Highlander? Every time a dragon dies I hear, "There can be only one."

zanraptora
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Post by zanraptora » Tue, 1. Jul 14, 22:08

The solution is to make the ships drive like trucks instead of boats.

Trade ships should have high speeds, but low acceleration and poor turning. The questions shouldn't be "How long is this going to take" as much as " How do I get through Emperor mines without getting my face smashed in".

This also means you have a use for a nose gun; Clear the way of the little rocks.

I bet it would be a lot more fun screaming your way through civillian traffic than waiting to align to the gates.

Then again, we'd need to make mines more viable to allow smaller ships to get these craft to slow down for piracy reasons.

phoenix-it
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Post by phoenix-it » Tue, 1. Jul 14, 22:22

zanraptora wrote:The solution is to make the ships drive like trucks instead of boats.

Trade ships should have high speeds, but low acceleration and poor turning. The questions shouldn't be "How long is this going to take" as much as " How do I get through Emperor mines without getting my face smashed in".

This also means you have a use for a nose gun; Clear the way of the little rocks.

I bet it would be a lot more fun screaming your way through civillian traffic than waiting to align to the gates.

Then again, we'd need to make mines more viable to allow smaller ships to get these craft to slow down for piracy reasons.
In most of the other games I've played, "rocks" are non-collision objects. It's assumed that they're trivial enough for your shields to deal with. Asteroids are easy enough to avoid and I don't have an issue with them at all. But the rocks are obnoxious, especially when you end up IS while an empire capitol was traveling through them and it goes boom while trying to get out of this gravel.
Anyone else notice how the Dovakiin & Dragons in Skyrim kinda sorta resemble the Immortals from Highlander? Every time a dragon dies I hear, "There can be only one."

Nanook
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Post by Nanook » Tue, 1. Jul 14, 22:24

phoenix-it wrote:....
The article didn't say why they objected. i.e. The sci-fi, or the mechanic or simply from a design perspective. Moreover, I don't know why they introduced a mechanic they apparently don't like....
It's just a rationalization for why they had to have giant cargo ships in Rebirth. It has nothing to do with either cheating or not liking the mechanic. I doubt either was the case when they designed the previous games.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.

zanraptora
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Post by zanraptora » Wed, 2. Jul 14, 05:55

Perhaps I've gone too far.

Would you say however, that faster ships which take longer, "safer" routes through sectors would not greatly improve trade? Including the obvious "I'm gonna skip the line and hope I don't get caught in an asteroid thicket with a quartet of M4s on my tail."

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