How have I never played this game before now?!

[Geek.Verve]

First off, hello. I'm brand new to the X franchise, and I'm finding these forums to be a treasure trove of detailed information (though I do often have trouble with all the acronyms).

I recently purchased the "gold box" version of X3 on Steam, which includes both TC and AP and both bonus packs. I started with TC and have dumped about 100-hours into it so far, just enjoying doing my own thing in the sandbox. As it's primarily the trading aspects that interest me, the only part of any plots I've participated in was the Goner Temple missions, which I kind of started without knowing it was a plot line. Let's just say my meager little M5 Explorer was not up to the task of rescuing the ambassador from a fortified Pirate base. (Now if I could only figure out a way to abort that plot mission...)

I was wondering, is AP pretty much the same game with different plot missions and some polishing? Same sectors and mechanics for the most part? Since I pretty much ignore the plot missions, I was wondering how much reason I might have to even bother with AP, since I'm enjoying TC so much at the moment.

Any thoughts on the differences between the two from a non-story-mission-humble-merchant-only perspective?

I should add that while my interests like nearly exclusively in trading, I have every intention of building a formidable fleet for defense. I'm about fed up with Xenon Q's eating my trading ships.

[Zaknafein]

I personally could never go back to tc after playing ap. There was only 1 big downside for ap which is the war. Tc was more calm than the universe in ap but this issue was fixed since u can choose now to disable the war.
Ap has a lot of improvements for which the way better oos(=out of sector) combat and the improved/bigger menus are the 2 most important ones for me. I dont see a reason why some1 should prefer tc over ap when he owns both but im sure there are reasons i didnt think of^^

Also have u tried some mods/scripts? The unmodded game is literally the snowflake-sized top of the iceberg hiding under the vanilla sea

[Hector0x]

AP=
nearly same universe map
different plots (NOT additional, timeline is set after tc)
a war between argon federation and terrans
more ships (big warships)
technical improvements (like mentioned above)
stock market (cheaty)


I would play tc only for the story. But thats a weakness in the x series so maybe a direct jump to AP

[Monkeyfister]

The big ones for me:

AP runs way smoother.
Bigger maps!
Autopilot actually WORKS, and doesn't just smash you into stuff.
Easier to issue commands.

[Geek.Verve]

Hmm. Thanks for the info. I just broke the 100-million credits mark last night and placed my first station (Solar Power Plant XL in Herron's Nebulae). It would be a shame to toss the 100+ hours I've invested so far, but heck, I just don't see any end in sight for me in this game. There are a couple things I would do differently, anyway, now that I know better.

I'll still take the "Humble Merchant" approach. Fighting just doesn't appeal to me that much, unless it's in the context of protecting my budding empire (in which case I have every intention of generating as much "shock and awe" with AI pilots as my bank account can manage). Maybe it's mostly because I'm just not that good at it, or that I'm still baffled by all the different weapon options and other aspects of effectively outfitting a fighter craft, but trading remains my primary focus, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

[OniGanon]

If your main interest is in the trading, I'd say AP has the following benefits of interest to you:


Availability
Most ships and stations in the game are available to you as soon as you have the reputation and the money to buy them. You want to buy a Griffon or a Spectre Missile Factory, you can do it without having to jump through any hoops or complete any plots.


Safety
There are no Khaak in AP. Xenon usually stick to areas near their sectors. There is a heavy military presence in most Core sectors, running regular patrols through the Border sectors. And should enemies be encountered, they're often met with swift and hilariously disproportionate reply from the Rapid Response Fleets. OoS combat is somewhat more fair. Lasertowers actually work. Bonus Pack has the Satellite Early Warning Network, which alerts you whenever an enemy enters a sector containing your NavSats. As long as you keep your property out of the War Sectors, space in AP is pretty darn safe.


Easy Plots
Compared to TC, the plots in AP tend to be very fast and easy to complete. You can get them over and done with quickly to get their rewards, then get right back to doing whatever it is you most enjoy doing. Of particular note is the Hub Plot, which compared to the TC equivalent it's almost like they're just giving it away.


More Ships
AP has a bunch of new ships not found in TC. Of particular note is the TS+ class of ships. They're similar in speed/cargo to the Mistral Superfreighter. But the best part about them is they all come with a 200MJ shield. No more time wasted hunting down 25MJ shields for your freighters! And do you like to do some personal trading yourself, but don't like the slowness or vulnerability of flying a freighter? Well the Paranid Ariadne and Boron Guppy M7C light carrier class ships solve this problem by having a docking slot for one TS/TP class ship.

[Cpt.Jericho]

(Now if I could only figure out a way to abort that plot mission...)

As long as there is no time limit to a mission you can do whatever you want before doing it (i.e. get more money for more firepower, bigger ship etc.).
You can turn off the mission guidiance system for a specific mission when you open the mission queue.

[hisazul]

Bonus packs are free, so are patches that introduced new missions like bala gi, final fury etc. Drm free executables are also free as long as you are registered.

As stated above aside from plot and seeing Kha'ak there is no good reason to play X3:R or X3:TC over X3:AP. Just OOS mechanics re-haul alone is worth it, not to mention all the other additions and fixes. And if you are dead set on seeing plots or having Kha'ak until you kill them off in plot... then there is a mod that drags all TC plots into AP. So again not really an issue.

Most plot missions don't have time limits so they can be done whenever you feel like it.

And I highly recommend doing plots eventually. HUB can be of huge help if used properly. PHQ is a game changer. And UFJD is my favorite past time... best way to get nividium and space flies... not to mention the only way to get aran.
A bit outdated but has most of acronyms
www.x3wiki.com - Almost always has info on the subject, forums will have more technical and detailed info but wiki still holds the short relevant info and numbers.

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

TC has much more story lines.

--------------

That's all. Except for this one, X3AP is better in every single aspect.

[Hector0x]

And you can use the script editor to get yourself the reputation and assets/money from your tc game. The 100 don't have to be wasted

[Geek.Verve]

TC has much more story lines.

Not really interested in the story lines. I may go back and do them at a later time just for something to do, but I wouldn't miss them if they were gone.

One thing that turned me off to them was the Goner Temple plot I mentioned above. I had no way of knowing I was grossly unequipped to complete that story line. You pretty much have to die to find that out. The first few missions were easy enough - deliver resources and escort some diplomats. Then all of a sudden I'm tailing that Pirate ship across a huge cloudy uncharted sector and partly across another at a snail's pace for what seemed like an hour. After all that my puny 1x5MJ M5 Explorer pretty much got vaporized on first contact.

Like I said, maybe later when I can roll into them all OP and such.

EDIT: I see...the QUOTE button is *above* the respective posts, not below. lol

[ancienthighway]

The plots in TC are very much worth the time to do. The Terran Plot will give you many useful ships and open up the Solar System for trade. The Adrian Plot that follow it add the important access to the ship yard where you can purchase Terran factories and even more ships.

The Goner Plot gives you a unfocused jump drive. Something many can't do without.

The big bonus of doing the Hub Plot is having to build the infrastructure to fulfill the requirements. The very infrastructure that can bring credits in hand over fist.

The PHQ plot gives you the PHQ, which will then allow you to build your own ships, again making use of the infrastructure built up for the Hub Plot.

All four of those plots can be done relatively early in your progression through the ranks, and none require any extensive combat from you. Any big battles in the Terran or Aldrian Plots can be left to AI fleets to handle.

[TycHouse]

Just be very, very careful young scribe. All the X series are addictive, once you're in that's it: no more life for you

I still love to dig out X2 occassionally and i've just started TC for the second time having taken a break to replay X3. I've yet to load AP and Rebirth is sitting on the shelf waiting for me to reformat with a 64 bit version of Vista Ultimate.

Hooked.... i'd say so !

[Threesixtyci]

Goner Plot also gives you a new place to buy a jump drive.

My suggestion for safe money making is flying a TP ship. preferably a Split Iguana Vanguard since it's the fastest TP ship in the game. Can't buy them in stores, though, in which case you'll have to settle for a regular Iguana. Ferrying passengers can earn you big bucks with zero risk. There is a free Iguana Vanguard in sector

Spoiler

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Family Whi

I don't remember the Goner missions all that well. But you probably can gain access to that pirate sector by flying a M5 Kestrel or Discovery and just out run everything. I do believe the sector becomes friendly to you after you contact the base. Though some of the pirate ships will remain hostel and will either have to be destroyed or kited away from the gate with your M5.

As for clearing the sector of unfriendy's. Buy yourself a Split M6 Dragon or a M6 Boron Hydra and equip it with about 4-6 'Energy bolt chainguns' with about 6-12 crates of ammo and whatever else for lasers. An M3 can do the job with the same Energy Bolt Chainguns, but it has less survivability than a M6.

Later for capturing the Goner ship...

Spoiler

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take out it's escorts. leave the sector. Reenter the sector (do not fire on the ship) and space walk to claim the ship as you would any abandoned ship (don't bother using the marines; you'll lose them if you do). Can do the same space walk capture thing for the ATF M6 Vidar, of the Terran plot. It'll save you the trouble of having to repair it's Hull, or outright destroying the ship.

[Geek.Verve]

Well, I spent a few hours in AP last night, and I noticed some pretty disappointing differences.

For one, missions seem to be almost entirely transport or covert ops/smuggler scanning. I followed some advice I'd read for TC and immediately sold the Mercury to get money to upgrade my Explorer. In TC that made it much more effective at doing station missions and I quickly earned more than enough to buy another freighter for trading. In AP, the money is coming *excruciatingly* slowly. Even the few missions I *can* find to do (return abandoned ship/scan asteroids - which now require the Explorer Software, ugh), pay much less than they did in TC. I found myself hauling energy cells and bofu at 49 cargo units per trip, just hoping to make enough scratch to try my luck with the stock exchange. I feel like I accomplished nothing more than mapping Argon and Boron sectors in the first four hours, and there doesn't seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel.

Secondly, auto pilot is crashing me more than I'm used to in TC. Heck, it even ran me into another ship going through a gate. I've died probably about as many times due to auto pilot in my first four hours than during all of the 100+ I've spent in TC.

Any tips for a non-combative trader type player??

[Threesixtyci]

Main thing I noticed about AP is that missions spawn at about 1/4 the rate than TC does. This in turn makes your Trader Rank increase more slowly. (I think ranks increase slower in AP, as well). Non-combat missions rewards are determined by your Trading Rank. This is why it seems that in AP you're getting less credits per mission. Your Trade rank is lower for a longer period of time.

The offset is to abusing the stock markets, and/or hang out at the waring sectors for crate salvage.


BTW: Autopilot combined with SETA combined with M5 = explosion. Need to drop one of the 3. Also best to leave SETA at it's default 600x setting.

[Geek.Verve]

Non-combat missions rewards are determined by your Trading Rank. This is why it seems that in AP you're getting less credits per mission. Your Trade rank is lower for a longer period of time.

The offset is to abusing the stock markets, and/or hang out at the waring sectors for crate salvage.

Yeah, I really didn't want to lean on the stock market, but I don't really have much choice for now. The credits are just not coming in.

Is it safe to hang out in the warring sectors?

BTW: Autopilot combined with SETA combined with M5 = explosion. Need to drop one of the 3. Also best to leave SETA at it's default 600x setting.

I know you're right. Mapping sectors is just so time consuming, especially when it generates no income. I've taken to babysitting SETA, disabling it when I approach any potential hazards. I also never open any dialogs while SETA is running.

[TTD]

You can use the war-zone to collect spoils of war...missiles etc.
Then sell to make credits.


The plots in TC were there to teach you various aspects of the game, and to reward you with a decent starter fleet and credits.

I am playing AP at the moment.
I have so many TS class MK3 Trading ships trading in all three categories, that I make a million just flying across a sector.

Aim for 20 trade ships to get your income at a usable level.

I have in my sig a mod that puts TC plots into AP.
It has a few map modifications too,due to the two game maps being a bit different.
There are also some nice player sectors to be found,in addition to the player sector reward for certain plots in the two games.

Generally we advise not to mod the game until you know how it works.
But I think there is room for some tweaking for you.
Pop over to the s/m forum if you are interested.

[Geek.Verve]

You can use the war-zone to collect spoils of war...missiles etc.
Then sell to make credits.


The plots in TC were there to teach you various aspects of the game, and to reward you with a decent starter fleet and credits.

I am playing AP at the moment.
I have so many TS class MK3 Trading ships trading in all three categories, that I make a million just flying across a sector.

Aim for 20 trade ships to get your income at a usable level.

I have in my sig a mod that puts TC plots into AP.
It has a few map modifications too,due to the two game maps being a bit different.
There are also some nice player sectors to be found,in addition to the player sector reward for certain plots in the two games.

Generally we advise not to mod the game until you know how it works.
But I think there is room for some tweaking for you.
Pop over to the s/m forum if you are interested.

All well and good, but I found the TC plots (the little of which I partook) frustrating - likely primarily because I attempted them in my meager M5, but that's still all I have to fly. Still, in TC I managed to build my little 100-million credit nest egg without too much issue. Sure, it was slow going at first, but felt like life in the fast lane compared to what I'm seeing in AP.

I suppose I should consider my mistake being selling off my initial Mercury to equip the Discoverer. It worked well in TC, but perhaps AP just requires a more straightforward, methodical approach. After fielding a fleet of UT's in TC, the thought of trading at stock speeds without the benefit of best-buy/sell software just makes me shiver, even if it's only for a short time.

[Nanook]

....
All well and good, but I found the TC plots (the little of which I partook) frustrating - likely primarily because I attempted them in my meager M5, but that's still all I have to fly.

But why? You had 100 million credits and the ability to own and fly as many ships as you wish? Why in the X-Universe did you continue to fly and attempt plot missions with such a puny ship???

I suppose I should consider my mistake being selling off my initial Mercury to equip the Discoverer. It worked well in TC, but perhaps AP just requires a more straightforward, methodical approach. After fielding a fleet of UT's in TC, the thought of trading at stock speeds without the benefit of best-buy/sell software just makes me shiver, even if it's only for a short time.

It really depends on what start you choose. Knowing how to play TC, AP shouldn't be any more difficult to start if you're flexible. However, IMO, TC is better for those who are of the trader bent, since AP is a bit more combat oriented, given the war and all. That said, there's very little difference between the two when using the Humble Merchant start, which it appears you did. One thing to realize is that no two games start out exactly the same. There's quite a bit of randomness each time you start a new game. Sounds like you just got on the wrong side of the RNG in your AP game.


P.S. Check my signature if you're having problems with the various game acronyms.