X3AP-- Terran Space... Where Do You Even Start Fixing That Mess?

[Monkeyfister]

It's taken me forever and a week to get my Terran Rep built up to a level where I can travel around and actually dock at most places. There are a few red laser towers, and the occasional facility still angry with me, and I still need to apologize to a ship or two from time to time to get them to stand down, but so what?

I can even land in Aldrin facilities-- utterly fubar mess that that sector is.

My big question is-- What now?

Most of the stations are empty of any weapons or stuff I particularly need. I got my Hull Plating, and MA/MLs just fine, and am seriously wondering if it is remotely worth it to do anything for the Terrans.

I certainly do not want to spend any more PERSONAL time than absolutely necessary flying around this shipwreck of the most boring, and borked sectors in the universe. I find it utterly unbearable. But, I still want to skin them for profitsss.

So, my questions are these:

1. Where are the best places to drop in MK3 Traders?
2. What are the most needed resources so I can drop a station or few, and milk the Terrans for what they need? I see Ice and Water seem to be in demand in most places.
3. Contemplating setting up a Terran Complex of basics in the Player-Owned sector using Hephaestus. Mainly, so I don't have to deal with the Terran Space nightmare. Let them come to me, and set up CAGs to deal with them. Is this practical?
4. Will probably need to set up a complex near a Terran Shipyard to produce weapons, should I want to buy a ship or two from them. Any guidance on best place to do that? I figure a Tyr or two. Not much else worth buying ship wise. Perhaps a complex in Segaris or Megnir to supply Springblossoms for Trading. Dunno. Perhaps just setting up EqDs in those places, and letting CAGs/MK3 Traders shop for me is best option?


Just sticking my toes into Terran waters, here. I don't want to jump in all the way, as that usually requires my spending time in sector while operations ramp up, and I just cannot tolerate Terran Space. (It honestly brings an anger reaction out of me that ruins the enjoyment and game factor.)

So, what are the basic essentials to doing business with the Terrans for those who really want nothing to do with them in the first place?

[ancienthighway]

There's plenty of ice, but a definite shortfall in water. Once the water is flowing, the problems with protein paste and carbo cakes shows up. Timsup2nothing has a thread about cornering the water market that may be worth a read. Bare in mind it was written for TC, so in AP you need to forget about the Jupiter sectors unless the war is over.

Take a look at a medium station complex in Uranus. 4 water, 2 protein,and 2 carbo cakes for a start. The stations are available in Saturn. Or if you go the Hephasestus route, you can pick up the large stations in the Adlrin sectors. Five ice mines in Uranus 2 and 3 will easily supply your needs, Terran SSP in Uranus and Neptune until you can get a flow of crystals going. There's a jump gate in Neptune and quite possible for jump beacons in Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto. The Neptune gate gives you a tie in to the Aldrin sectors also.

With you producing the bio and selling it at ave - 1, the Terrans will come to you, although a couple of CLS2 ships wouldn't hurt. Supply the food producers, and the C-Rats and MRE will start flowing. Before long, the economy of the outer solar system past Jupiter starts to work. Something similar in the Aldrin sectors, to include CW bio and food will get those sectors on their way also.

I would avoid setting up the weapons forges, although missiles and MA/AM ammo would be considered. Use CLS2 to go buy the weapons you need and store them in a transport docked at the shipyard. A scout or two loaded with the software your new ships need and you can avoid the whole EqD question.

[Monkeyfister]

Excellent.

Perfect!

Thanks, ancienthighway. I'll get it going tonight.

[Monkeyfister]

Timsup2nothing has a thread about cornering the water market that may be worth a read.

I have seen that thread pop up from time to time, but was never ready to make use of it.

Now that I need it, the not-so-very-good Forum "search engine" is failing me.

Dang. I'll PM Tim when I get home.

[Monkeyfister]

OK. The Baldric seems mostly useless with its 100Km top speed. I can kit up a Mistral (or a wing of five) with MK3 software, and everything it could need, in about 15 minutes real time, if I micromanage it. Mistrals have a 130Km top speed-- much better.

Kitting up a Baldric takes hours and hours of frustration.

So, I am planning on using Mistrals as ST/LTs.

Given the size of Terran sectors and huge Demand for everything, is it wise to launch a couple Mistrals with MK3 software per targeted Terran Sector, so when they level up to LTs, they will spread out over an area and dominate? I've no intention of making them UTs. Thinking of starting with those Logistical Warehouses full of stuff that is just sitting there, unused.

I should/could remove Terran sectors from the MK3 Blacklist and CAGLOCK, too. I've only gotten access a few nights ago. My several dozen UTs might flood in there, and help kick things over, too. Or, it might slow down income flow because UTs are stuck in the Terran trap.

Dunno. Terran space is a confusing beastie to me right now.

[Jonzac]

Terran Revitalization Project: Adds the missing stations (most are smaller that current structures) and additional hulls from ATF that you couldn't buy before. Also has a Terran marine option as well.

[Monkeyfister]

Terran Revitalization Project: Adds the missing stations (most are smaller that current structures) and additional hulls from ATF that you couldn't buy before. Also has a Terran marine option as well.

Thanks, but I did start a thread about Terran Repair scripts in the Script/Mod forum.

I don't really care about Terrans one tiny bit. I just want all their monies in my account.

[DrBullwinkle]

the Script/Mod forum.

If you are playing a modified game, all you need to do is start a couple of UT's in Terran space with Gnasirator's MK3 Improvement. Among other things, Improved Mk3's will stock factories that are in need of resources.

That's it. No other tinkering required.

[Monkeyfister]

the Script/Mod forum.

If you are playing a modified game, all you need to do is start a couple of UT's in Terran space with Gnasirator's MK3 Improvement. Among other things, Improved Mk3's will stock factories that are in need of resources.

That's it. No other tinkering required.

Thanks for this! I can really see its value for Terran space.

[Monkeyfister]

I'd prefer this thread to stick to Strategies For Trading In Terran Space. I have a thread in the Scripting/Mods Forum for physically fixing the Terran Nightmare.

[DrBullwinkle]

There is no "nightmare" in Terran space.

Nothing is broken about it.

You just have to THINK a little and do some trading.

That's all there ever was to it, even in TC. It's even easier in AP.

• In my first-ever TC game, before I ever visited this forum, all I did was start a couple of (vanilla) UT's in Terran space. Within a week or two, Terran space was thriving.
  
  All of the crazy stuff that people do with parking M5's at factories, using CLS2, and building extra factories is unnecessary. There is nothing wrong with doing extra work, but it is not needed.
  
  Just stimulate the economy.

[ancienthighway]

Tall Glass Ice and Water Company daily report is the one you're looking for.

The Mercury and Mercury Hauler work out just fine. The Demeter would work too. It's not like you'll be flying the ship or having to compete with some high speed/high volume Terran transports, so 80-100 works fine, or the Demeter or Caiman for a little bit more speed. I wouldn't put the higher priced Mistrel in support of your bio complex.

An sector trader in Neptune and Uranus works out great. Once they get some experience, Uranus can cover the Saturn sectors and Titan, and Neptune, everything else heading out.

With the lack of hostile activity in Terran space beyond the war sectors, shields aren't really needed, but if you need a warm fuzzy, even 1 5Mj is sufficient. Forgo fight software to avoid the unmonitored trips to by mosquitoes and drones. All that's needed is the nav commands and appropriate trade software. Captured and second hand transports can get you in business on the cheap.

There's no silicon asteroids readily available, so keep that in mind when laying out your complex. I make crystals in CW space, then jump into Neptune or Uranus and feed the complex with the crystals if I add an appropriately sized SPP.

[Monkeyfister]

ETA-- So, wait-- moral of your story is for me to just undo the BLACKLIST and let my UTs in there? That works for me! I thought the small text was a sigline. Sorry for what seems to be a rant.

--------------
As long as **I** don't have to personally try to fly in it, I suppose you may be right. As long as my remote Traders do it, and I can avoid Terran space-- fine.

I'm trying to work that through. In sector, everything is a nightmare and broken. Navigation is an absolute horror. I do not have the patience of Job. The Autopillock is worse than TC v1.1. It's like they fixed autopilot everywhere else BUT Terran Space just for kicks. I don't like flying there, and having to do SO DAMBED MUCH to get a few little items? No, thanks.

It took me 915 hours to repair my rep to this point with them from rock bottom, having been overly-exuberant in my early Game Start as an Argon Peacekeeper. Haven't seen Terran Space since moving from TC to AP in August of last year, outside of Heretic's End and a bit of Segaris. It still just saps away my love of the game. It's like being stuck in a tarpit. Like having a Ferrari with cement blocks instead of wheels.

So, I am interested in automating as much as possible.

Right now, I am leaning heavy on having Hephaestus drop a complex of infrastructure stuff and sundry needful things in the Player-Owned Sector, connecting it up, setting prices at Average -1, letting my UTs into Terran space, and calling it a day, I hate flying in Terran space so much. Get my toes wet a bit, get their monies and a couple of ships, and be able to equip them in less than a week. All I need right now.

Beautiful ship and station designs-- every Arthur C. Clark 1st Edition book cover ever is right there-- But terrible execution.

[Monkeyfister]

Tall Glass Ice and Water Company daily report is the one you're looking for.

Tim--

This is absolutely exactly what I was hoping to do. Exactly.

Every other Race in the CW, I have been making it my big thing to drop down MASSIVE Bio/Food first. Get a hard lock on that, and then work into Energy and Tech Markets once everything has the broadbased support required. It's been a long trek. So, as I expand, I've got CLS pilots doing those short E/Ore-Hauler runs and gaining rank. Seems every few weeks, I get to roll-over the newest expansion sectors, and shake them down for maxed-out Pilots, and a streamlining of operations, and I am ready to do the next wave of expansion. The fully trained Pilots are set to more refined and useful tasks.

This link and plan fits perfectly into the overall plan I've been working from the start. AND it makes the Baldric relevant!

Thank you for this!

I'll probably have questions for you as I roll it out.

[hisazul]

There is no "nightmare" in Terran space.

Nothing is broken about it.

You just have to THINK a little and do some trading.

That's all there ever was to it, even in TC. It's even easier in AP.

• In my first-ever TC game, before I ever visited this forum, all I did was start a couple of (vanilla) UT's in Terran space. Within a week or two, Terran space was thriving.
  
  All of the crazy stuff that people do with parking M5's at factories, using CLS2, and building extra factories is unnecessary. There is nothing wrong with doing extra work, but it is not needed.
  
  Just stimulate the economy.

Don't even go there, you are just opening the "broken" can of worms. Someone every week has to make a post about "broken" terran economy. Apparently if required wares aren't the same as in other 100 sectors... IT'S BROKEN BEYOND REPAIR, CALL THE WAMBULANCE AND THE WHITE HOUSE!

Every sector has a place for player to fill in. Every sector has something it produces and something it needs... If the needed product isn't there then that is the place for the player to fill in, in what ever form you so desire. Starting from hauling from one place to another, placing factories in sectors that will fill needs of neighboring sectors while also feeding of them and ending with 1k+ big superplexes that generate every single ware and feed the whole universe.

If it wasn't "broken"... wtf would be the point of economy? Why the heck build anything? Or trade for that matter?

Economy by it's very definition "broken" and those who take advantage and fill in the gaps profit. That what makes economy well... economy.

Two biggest complaints past "omg it's not the same as CW":
1. Stations too big, *cry*, tales 2 years to travel to sectors... News flash... no collision OOS. And humans shouldn't use autopilot to navigate around big objects, in the exact same way you don't let autopilot fight while you are in a fleet of megalodons, it just doesn't work.
2. OMG NO JUMPGATES, /cutwrist, nevertouchingit. Last I checked jump beacons worked fine ever since... well... since they were there. And terran sectors have plenty of them. So how about using them?

Haven't built a single station in terran space. There are PP factories sitting at half their capacity pretty much always. Nobody is starving or needing anything... I'm curious about the whole "broken "part here. Since the only modification I have is to PHQ, one file, I must have a special edition of AP, not available for the rest of the world.

[ancienthighway]

ETA-- So, wait-- moral of your story is for me to just undo the BLACKLIST and let my UTs in there? That works for me! I thought the small text was a sigline. Sorry for what seems to be a rant.

Absolutely not unless you've ended the war. Any of your ships piloted by AI and flying through a war sector is subject to immediate attack and destruction if you are OOS. AI piloted ships accompanying you IS are save, until you decide it's time to change sectors. DrB's comment about UTs was in TC where there are no war sectors to ruin your day.

So bite the bullet and fly past Jupiter, find the jump gate and jump beacons. Then you can set up STs and LTs avoiding the war sectors.

Also, using the station building corporation, you still have to place the complex connectors.

I agree with hisazul about the Terran economy not being broken. It can be if the player does nothing to make the stations work, i.e., feed them the resources they need and remove the products that block production. But it's that way with the CW economy also. TC was a little rougher until you complete the Adrian Plot because you can't buy stations to fill in the bio shortages, but the Atmo Lifters will provide those wares to the Supply Stations and still do in AP. Minerals can be an issue because the Asteroid Belt is a war sector, so minerals must be brought in from the outer reaches of the solar system and beyond, or imported from CW space via the Neptune jump gate/beacons.

[Monkeyfister]

Thank you, again, ancienthighway --

Yes, the war still rages on, and I am still some way from stopping it. I guess that explains why I am still having to apologize to ships on a fairly regular, but diminishing basis.

I had no idea there were jump beacons in Terran space-- seems anathema to the Terran idiom, but I will need to look for them. I have Kestrals doing the mapping and laying down ADV Sats.

Was just about to lay down the 2x Argnu Beef plex that Tim suggests in Jupiter last night, when the feral cat I have been working with dropped by, warranting my saving/quitting for the night. I am glad I did not drop those stations, now.

Building a Terran Sundries and Weapons Plex in Blue Horizons is easy enough, as it is still CW space. But, don't need the war spilling into there.

Only reason I got the rep built up is a fluke Xenon invasion into Segaris that I was able to intercept. Eight months of replacing AdvSats and Lasertowers which the Terrans regularly destroyed, and it finally paid off. My Boreas versus a J, a Q, several P and PXs, and assorted fighters.

So, I am only now getting all the sectors discovered and mapped.

I guess a few STs set up in Core Sectors is going to be the Plan Of The Week. Seems the way to go right now. Just get stuff moving around. I have an impressive armada of freighters waiting to start up Tim's CLS Plan as soon as I can get to ending this war.

[Black_hole_suN]

Tip: Use a fast M5 with Adv. Sat. and Triplex scanner to map Terran Sectors from OOS.. some stations/ beacon/ ships move away from its initial spot when the player enters the sector.. this is especially true to beacons which gets thrown out 50km away from its initial spot.

[ancienthighway]

Your personal ship should look for the beacons. Any of your AI ships will be attacked, destroyed, and cause a Terran rep loss.

Think about placing not using the cattle ranches. If you read further into Tim's post, he does comment that using Terran stations and having a usable product may have been a better idea. The cattle ranch pair is used to have a large volume of e-cells available to you at the cheapest cost possible, which I found not to be so critical when setting up the bio trade.

I must reiterate that any of your ownings in a war sector will be attacked and destroyed if you are not IS. AVOID Jupiter and the Asteroid Belt with your AI ships. This includes satellites and stations.

You need a rank of 3 or 4 with the Terrans to buy the bio stations. Medium versions are available at the Saturn shipyard. If you have access to the Moon, you can get the large carbo cake and protein paste stations. Megnir will give you the large water station. The medium stations (4 water, 2 cc, 2 pp) in Uranus have served me well.

I believe you said you have access to the Albion sectors. Don't confuse the Albion sectors proper with the CW owned Albion Alpha, Beta, Gamma and Delta sectors. They aren't connected. You get to the proper Albion sectors through the Neptune jump gate.

[hisazul]

Considering OOS combat is point blank and first to attack has to be the faster ship. A fast m5 can explore just fine. Think kestrel, dirt cheap and it will outrun anything and everything. Heck recon drones from boron move at 600+m/s so another option.