[v3.0 TO] Neutral Faction executing unprovoked attacks???

[Ognjen85]

The freighter they attacked in my case is a Lyramekron, funnily enough they did not go after the softer target of my Vulture Bulk. Perhaps they attacked it because it was the recipient of nividium cubes and spaceweed from the Vulture.

So randomuser, the man "from the pirate faction he say yes"... wrt the Lyramekron being considered a valid target.

Was this in zone or out of zone? Did you Lyramekron fired back or was the attacker still neutral to him...? I hope it did respond and crush it like a bug

[VincentTH]

The freighter they attacked in my case is a Lyramekron, funnily enough they did not go after the softer target of my Vulture Bulk. Perhaps they attacked it because it was the recipient of nividium cubes and spaceweed from the Vulture.

So randomuser, the man "from the pirate faction he say yes"... wrt the Lyramekron being considered a valid target.

Was this in zone or out of zone? Did you Lyramekron fired back or was the attacker still neutral to him...? I hope it did respond and crush it like a bug

Sorry to jump in. Pls read my message posted above (and load the save game). The attacker is a CAR Marauder Phoenix, and it attacked player and TU friendly ships alike. The local TU Phoenix just stand by and did not retaliate, because the CAR Marauder is friendly to TU.

[dmk]

I have funny save if some one interested (with several marauders in zone, all have attack my poor titurel, but no one fired, some time later new one jumps in and it begins attack, still being neutral, so no fight command working (for attack object exception), if you begins attack on marauder you losing rep., but others marauders still remains neutral(having same attack order), (that one became red, and your ships begins to fight with it) )

i.e. currently there is 3 critical non plot bug:
1. neutral marauders attacks ships (this one)
2. stucking when repairing in shipyard.
3. trade stucking with message "search for trading"
(there also other buggy reasons for trade stucking)

1 or 2 critical plot bugs.

and around 50 smaller bugs, and they call it 3.1 release.

[Ognjen85]

@Vincent:

Np. Thanks for the info. I noticed that these cartel ships attack everything they can, lucky they didn't attack mine ships yet....

I agree that this is a bug and that should be somehow fixed.

FO sector is wild west and I'm OK if you cannot leave your ships unattended anywhere you like. There are a lot of pirates there and I guess it makes sense to expect some attacks and perhaps even a "scripted" boarding operations on your assets if really park them in middle of nowhere and you leave them unprotected.

Pirates after-all are pirates and they should not be trusted no matter what are you relations with them and IMHO you shouldn't be safe in their space even if you are allied with them (there should always be individual pirates that are not friendly to you...).

However, if they do attack you, your assets or NPC ships they should become enemy to you or that NPC race, and your/NPC ships should defend themselves.

I'm even OK if they are blue (neutral/friendly) before the attack as it makes things more interesting (same as it happens to poor friendly NPC ships when you suddenly decide to attack /board them. Of course if such game mechanics is possible at all.

[spankahontis]

Best to find their Dens and do missions for them to get them off your back..

They'll still attack ships you're trying to escort, so it's not worth the rep drop.

[pref]

I'm even OK if they are blue (neutral/friendly) before the attack as it makes things more interesting (same as it happens to poor friendly NPC ships when you suddenly decide to attack /board them.

Would be nice, especially if in this case killing/boarding them wouldn't cause a rep loss.

[MrScubaSteve]

i think someone figured out a way to do it by just editing the savefile cant seem to find the thread right now but i m strongly considering it as they almost made me go bankrupt

RIP 10 lyraes

It took me a while to figure out that the Uguras Armaments faction and the Cartel faction are defined as teladigunrunner and teladidrugrunner, respectively, in the save xml. (I only figured that out after reading the in-game encyclopedia about both factions.)

Here's what I ended up doing and it kinda fixed it for me:
(- Always back up your save file.)
- First I started taking down ships from both factions personally. As recommended earlier in this thread. Making sure my relation with both factions was as the 'enemy' level. At least I can see them coming now.
- Afterwards I opened the save xml with Notepad(++) and found the following lines;

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladigunrunner">

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladidrugrunner">

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladi">

Below each of these, I changed the relationship value for the other two factions to "-0.5".
So below <faction id="teladi"> I changed the <relation faction= line for both teladigunrunner and teladidrugrunner to "-0.5". After that I repeated the process for the other two factions. As you can see below in the example for the teladigunrunner (Uguras Armaments) faction.

Example (after editing):

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladigunrunner">
<relations>
<relation faction="reivers" relation="-0.32"/>
<relation faction="xenon" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="enemy" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="smuggler" relation="-0.06"/>
<relation faction="criminal" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="sovereignsyndicate" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="hereticvanguards" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladi" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladidrugrunner" relation="-0.5"/>
<booster faction="player" relation="-0.138754" time="293550.442"/>
</relations>

(Remember, for this to work, you must change BOTH <relation faction= lines below ALL THREE <faction id= lines.)

- Result: Both my ships and stations and the Teladi ships and stations now defend themselves against the Cartel and Uguras Armaments factions. As an added bonus, the Cartel and Uguras Armaments hate each other too (because of the script, they still won't bother each other while patrolling but w/e). I can peacefully trade, in the Verdant Profit zone at least. I have yet to discover the full effect of this savegame-edit, I've only played a couple of hours after editing. So use with caution.

If any of you ends up trying this, please let me know how it went.

[Snafu_X3]

Very very useful! Tks for that MSS!

I'm not really one for editing, especially while I'm beta-testing, but the info is priceless if what you posted was the 'before' option rather than the 'after'.. it was, wasn't it?

[MrScubaSteve]

UPDATE on the save described above:
I've got a couple more hours in on the edited savegame and so far what's happened, is that the balance in the Teladi Controlled areas has shifted towards the Player faction and the Teladi.

-The Marauders Phoenixes are still present in between the sectors and roam around to the stations sometimes, but trade ships stand a better chance, because the Teladi faction will now shoot Cartel and Uguras Armaments warships on sight.

-Because of the script that is used, Cartel and Uguras will still not attack each other's ships. Since they are scripted to attack freighters. So in the end, editing their relationship with each other has had very little effect from where I am standing.

-However, I'm very satisfied with the shift in balance I described above. I can peacefully trade and construct ships in the Teladi zone and that's all I wanted.

If you end up trying the edit please let me know how it works out!

Very very useful! Tks for that MSS!

I'm not really one for editing, especially while I'm beta-testing, but the info is priceless if what you posted was the 'before' option rather than the 'after'.. it was, wasn't it?

Do you mean 'before' as in 'before I let the savegame run a couple of hours'? Or 'before editing'?

[Carl Sumner]

Example (after editing):
Code:
<faction id="teladigunrunner">
<relations>
<relation faction="reivers" relation="-0.32"/>
<relation faction="xenon" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="enemy" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="smuggler" relation="-0.06"/>
<relation faction="criminal" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="sovereignsyndicate" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="hereticvanguards" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladi" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladidrugrunner" relation="-0.5"/>
<booster faction="player" relation="-0.138754" time="293550.442"/>
</relations>

I have not edited my savegame. This is how it currently looks, after my being in Teladi space a few hours:

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladigunrunner">
<relations>
<relation faction="reivers" relation="-0.32"/>
<relation faction="xenon" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="enemy" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="smuggler" relation="-0.06"/>
<relation faction="criminal" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="sovereignsyndicate" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="hereticvanguards" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladi" relation="-0.001"/>
<relation faction="teladidrugrunner" relation="0.1"/>
</relations>
</faction>

When I first went into Teladi space, there were wrecks everywhere and dropped containers all around the big wheel station. I don't know if the Teladi Union was shooting back at the attackers, but I did see ships there that I later learned were the CAR faction. After I docked at the station I did hear shooting, though.

I called my big trade ship in and bought a Teladi liquid freighter. A few minutes later they got killed by a CAR Marauder Phoenix. I went out and looked, and it started shooting at me. As soon as it shot me it turned red (or maybe before).

I out-manuvered it and shot up it's engines and jumpdrive, and then took out the turrets. I lost two whole boarding parties, before I gave up and battered it until it blew up. I have since heard that boarding is different now.

I think this means that the "initial condition" for the teladi factions was not correct, but that the relations do work. The Teladi Union is now shooting the pirates, and the large station is safer. Beware though, the pirates are loose.

In other systems, I have seen single stations go red, after catching me with contraband, and then go back to blue later without all of the faction going red. I think I have seen single ships go red after I hit them by mistake, without the faction going red.

So:

Factions have relations to each other faction. Stations have their own relations, in addition to the faction relations. Ships have their own relations, as well. You can make a ship angry, but if you don't shoot it up too much it will not make the whole faction hate you.

[MrScubaSteve]

I have not edited my savegame. This is how it currently looks, after my being in Teladi space a few hours:

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladigunrunner">
<relations>
<relation faction="reivers" relation="-0.32"/>
<relation faction="xenon" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="enemy" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="smuggler" relation="-0.06"/>
<relation faction="criminal" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="sovereignsyndicate" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="hereticvanguards" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladi" relation="-0.001"/>
<relation faction="teladidrugrunner" relation="0.1"/>
</relations>
</faction>

When I first went into Teladi space, there were wrecks everywhere and dropped containers all around the big wheel station. I don't know if the Teladi Union was shooting back at the attackers, but I did see ships there that I later learned were the CAR faction. After I docked at the station I did hear shooting, though.

I called my big trade ship in and bought a Teladi liquid freighter. A few minutes later they got killed by a CAR Marauder Phoenix. I went out and looked, and it started shooting at me. As soon as it shot me it turned red (or maybe before).

I out-manuvered it and shot up it's engines and jumpdrive, and then took out the turrets. I lost two whole boarding parties, before I gave up and battered it until it blew up. I have since heard that boarding is different now.

I think this means that the "initial condition" for the teladi factions was not correct, but that the relations do work. The Teladi Union is now shooting the pirates, and the large station is safer. Beware though, the pirates are loose.

In other systems, I have seen single stations go red, after catching me with contraband, and then go back to blue later without all of the faction going red. I think I have seen single ships go red after I hit them by mistake, without the faction going red.

So:

Factions have relations to each other faction. Stations have their own relations, in addition to the faction relations. Ships have their own relations, as well. You can make a ship angry, but if you don't shoot it up too much it will not make the whole faction hate you.

Well what you probably saw, was the temporary relation loss that happens whenever you shoot a ship or station. Your relation with that specific ship drops a whole lot temporarily. But your overall relation stays the same. In the bit of code you posted, the relationship between teladi and teladigunrunner seems to be negative. But -0.001 is still counted as neutral.

When one of the pirate maurauders shoots a Teladi ship, that Teladi ship will temporarily HATE the marauder, but the overall relation between the factions, although effected by the shooting, changes much less. If you want the Teladi to continue fighting back against the Cartel and Uguras Armaments, you have to manually change their relationship to negative (-0,5 is max negative).


UPDATE 2 on the savegame described a few posts above:
A couple of more hours in and the Teladi now seem to be bullying the Teladigunrunner (Uguras Armaments) faction. Attacking their base and chasing Phoenix Marauders out of Teladi zones. I havent found the Teladidrugrunner (cartel) base yet, maybe it's being attacked as well.

[spankahontis]

I have not edited my savegame. This is how it currently looks, after my being in Teladi space a few hours:

Code: Select all

<faction id="teladigunrunner">
<relations>
<relation faction="reivers" relation="-0.32"/>
<relation faction="xenon" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="enemy" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="smuggler" relation="-0.06"/>
<relation faction="criminal" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="sovereignsyndicate" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="hereticvanguards" relation="-0.5"/>
<relation faction="teladi" relation="-0.001"/>
<relation faction="teladidrugrunner" relation="0.1"/>
</relations>
</faction>

When I first went into Teladi space, there were wrecks everywhere and dropped containers all around the big wheel station. I don't know if the Teladi Union was shooting back at the attackers, but I did see ships there that I later learned were the CAR faction. After I docked at the station I did hear shooting, though.

I called my big trade ship in and bought a Teladi liquid freighter. A few minutes later they got killed by a CAR Marauder Phoenix. I went out and looked, and it started shooting at me. As soon as it shot me it turned red (or maybe before).

I out-manuvered it and shot up it's engines and jumpdrive, and then took out the turrets. I lost two whole boarding parties, before I gave up and battered it until it blew up. I have since heard that boarding is different now.

I think this means that the "initial condition" for the teladi factions was not correct, but that the relations do work. The Teladi Union is now shooting the pirates, and the large station is safer. Beware though, the pirates are loose.

In other systems, I have seen single stations go red, after catching me with contraband, and then go back to blue later without all of the faction going red. I think I have seen single ships go red after I hit them by mistake, without the faction going red.

So:

Factions have relations to each other faction. Stations have their own relations, in addition to the faction relations. Ships have their own relations, as well. You can make a ship angry, but if you don't shoot it up too much it will not make the whole faction hate you.

Well what you probably saw, was the temporary relation loss that happens whenever you shoot a ship or station. Your relation with that specific ship drops a whole lot temporarily. But your overall relation stays the same. In the bit of code you posted, the relationship between teladi and teladigunrunner seems to be negative. But -0.001 is still counted as neutral.

When one of the pirate maurauders shoots a Teladi ship, that Teladi ship will temporarily HATE the marauder, but the overall relation between the factions, although effected by the shooting, changes much less. If you want the Teladi to continue fighting back against the Cartel and Uguras Armaments, you have to manually change their relationship to negative (-0,5 is max negative).


UPDATE 2 on the savegame described a few posts above:
A couple of more hours in and the Teladi now seem to be bullying the Teladigunrunner (Uguras Armaments) faction. Attacking their base and chasing Phoenix Marauders out of Teladi zones. I havent found the Teladidrugrunner (cartel) base yet, maybe it's being attacked as well.

It's in the other sector, there are Highways in it. One that leads you round in a circle past a Teladi Union Teladianium Factory and a Water Plant.
You get off at the Teladianium stop, travel west from that location, past the Gas cloud there is another local highway not connected to the one you exited.

It'll lead you to 3 Zones, you'll find the 3 Cartel's Den's at the top. In the middle zone is a Xenon Station and after that I think it's the Ugari Armaments station which is just another Den.

[randomuser]

well guess i ll be putting rebirth on hold until this is fixed .... lost another 3 freighters with > 100.000.000 net value while inzone ... blue ships , teladi union jsut watching

[spankahontis]

well guess i ll be putting rebirth on hold until this is fixed .... lost another 3 freighters with > 100.000.000 net value while inzone ... blue ships , teladi union jsut watching

Cartel and U.Armaments have dens, find them and do jobs for them to get your rank up to Allied with them.
They should leave you alone after that, if not then bring out the Destroyers.

[MrScubaSteve]

well guess i ll be putting rebirth on hold until this is fixed .... lost another 3 freighters with > 100.000.000 net value while inzone ... blue ships , teladi union jsut watching

Cartel and U.Armaments have dens, find them and do jobs for them to get your rank up to Allied with them.
They should leave you alone after that, if not then bring out the Destroyers.

Thing is, according to reports, they won't leave you alone even if you've allied them. That's why I ended up editing the savegame to make the Teladi be angry with them. Doing this really tipped the scales.

[TonyEvans]

Be nice if we had the old option to set factions/races to Hostile like we could in older games. Or allow ships to adjust their IFF settings as needed when attacked by, for example, "neutral" enemies.

[MrScubaSteve]

Be nice if we had the old option to set factions/races to Hostile like we could in older games. Or allow ships to adjust their IFF settings as needed when attacked by, for example, "neutral" enemies.

If you keep killing their stuff they'll be hostile after a while.

Rest could be managed through savegame editing. Until it gets fixed I mean. Through the savegame you have direct control over faction relations. Even the relation between other factions.

[randomuser]

it would be fine if the attacks would stop at +15 rep instead of never.
would fit the pirate thing too.

[Syock]

If any of you ends up trying this, please let me know how it went.

Thank you for finding this MrScubaSteve!

I edited the standings under the Teladi faction only, and it worked instantly.

It is really a brute force workaround. The pirate behavior in X3 Teladi space was very well balanced. The pirates here are just stupid, so the brute force solution is needed for the time being.

[randomuser]

guess they ll keep killing or stuff at 30 rep even after 4.21 ;/