Launch Fighters is acting funny? not using carriers correctly?

[adb0899]

so i got my very first carrier, and i got 27 fighters and i was so excited to use it, but when i use the launch fighters command, they decided to lose 2 fighters just by exiting the hanger, then the ship went autopilot and did nothing... then the fighters looped back around and reentered the carrier, then the carrier attacked stuff..... -_-

I feel like i'm using an underpowered destroyer... cause i can't seem to be able to use the fighters

X3 Tc btw

[Alan Phipps]

Are the fighters homebased to the carrier and what combat orders do the fighters have? I personally do not use the 'launch fighters' command unless I want all the ships quickly launched for further orders.

Personally when I want fighters to attack things, I do not homebase them but put the fighters into groups of 5 ships and give the group leaders orders either to 'attack nearest enemy to carrier' (they auto-launch and attack any approaching enemies) or 'protect carrier' (they auto-launch when anything damages the carrier and then attack the ship(s) responsible).

If you homebase fighters to the carrier but with no combat orders then they will launch whenever enemies are near but may not attack until something attacks the group.

When any of these orders are finished and there is no more nearby threat, the fighters will redock.

Remember that the best fighter configurations for in-sector (IS) combat may not be so good out of sector (OOS), and vice versa.

[adb0899]

I guess it might be because I have all the fighters in one wing maybe. so you put them in wings grouped in sets of five? with sixty fighters, there aren't enough wings. but I'll try your method right now.

[Alan Phipps]

Groups, not wings in my case.

A Group has a group leader with some order to fight for the carrier if you want the group involved.

The other 4 ships in the group are ideally slightly faster ships than the leader with orders to protect, attack target of, or attack nearest enemy to *the group leader*.

Thus only the group leader ever needs a change of orders so as to involve the entire group in any battle to protect the carrier, or not.

Some other players swear by wings on carriers (DrBullwinkle for example) so they can perhaps advise you better about that aspect of carrier combat.

[adb0899]

hello

I tried ur method and it was very hard to do considering i had 6 group leaders to control, and if they died then the "group" just sat there. and you mentioned wing control by bullwinkle, how do i contact him and how is this done, casue with wings, i'm still having the same issues :{.

Is carrier control too buggy to play? or is it just something i'm doing wrong?

[Triaxx2]

Vanilla carrier control is absolutely horrendous. The best option is to use them as a Kha'ak style swarm. Carrier enters the sector, and parks, then the fighters get ordered to attack. When I use vanilla carriers, the solution is to pick one ship as a wing leader, and put it in one of the vanilla wings. Then order all the other ships to protect or attack target of the leader. Then use the wing commands to order the leader to do things and the other ships will assist it as they've been assigned.

Personally, I'd tell you to abandon vanilla and go to Scripts and Modding and try out CODEA. Much more insanely complex, but infinitely more functional than vanilla.

[Alan Phipps]

" if they died then the "group" just sat there"

It sounds as though your escorts ships are not fast enough nor have the right orders or formations to get stuck into the melee fight before the group leader gets killed. You do need to pick your targets and the related mix, layout/timing and orders of the ships you send out to avoid early one-shot kills causing problems such as you describe.

I do enjoy tailoring my carrier group operations for specific IS/OOS and capital patrol/fighter swarm targets and perhaps that is a bit too complex for a newish player. Also I see from other threads of yours that you have total mods installed and that can change just about everything compared with the vanilla combat situations (example - high capital hull point increases can make carrier fighter group combat quite difficult).

[Jimmy C]

It sounds as though your escorts ships are not fast enough nor have the right orders or formations to get stuck into the melee fight before the group leader gets killed.

What kind of orders and formations would you suggest to deal with this problem? I've seen what adb mentioned previously myself and would like to be able to minimize the problems that could occur too.

[ancienthighway]

I'm with Triaxx2. Forget vanilla and use CODEA.

But if you must play vanilla, don't try to launch too soon. I've tried dropping a drone swarm to clean up some reds, but apparently the targets were too far from the drop. Hold off launching the fighters until they would have scanner visibility of the target. Use wingmen or wings. Order them to protect a ship that's in the heat of the battle.

Don't mix fighters coming off of the carrier. That leads to splitting up the fighters into easily defeated groups. If you must mix, try to match the speeds of the fighter variety.

If you are fighting IS, go with fast fighters armed with PACs such as the Nova Raider or a Mamba of some sort. OSS heavily shielded and the laser with the biggest bang like the Falcon Hauler (200 mj shield) or Perseus (100 mj shield).

Arm the fighters with Thunderbolts, Tempests, or even Tornadoes and set the missile fire probability to at least 60%.

[Alan Phipps]

@ JimmyC: My escort ships are a bit faster than the group leader and the groups use formations that keep the escorts very close to the action - such as Dragonclaw or Shield - even Line or X. (Delta formations tend to leave the escorts a bit behind the action at first.)

If you use 'protect' leader orders they will stay by the leader until it is damaged, but 'attack target of' or 'attack nearest enemy to' the leader will see them race alongside or ahead of the leader to engage their targets.

Wing vs Group tactics are quite different. Still, using my groups, I rarely see a planned attack where all my fighters are not actively contributing to the battle. Sure, I do lose the odd fighter now and again and if that is a leader it can cause a bit of a delay in recovering all the ships afterwards, but then isn't that what carrier operations are supposed to be like? If it were foolproof and fully automated, it would be rather boring!

[adb0899]

from what i'm hearing, i will definately use codea. I've been hearing alot about it, and i feel like i want to give it a try!

I'm hoping it works with most mods?

[Black_hole_suN]

I play M1s and TMs alot using just vanilla commands and its very sufficient IMO. The secret would be having your ships in a group you could easily control such as Wings and Player Wingman. never let any ships/wings/groups fight alone and leading the battle together with your fighters. Know how commands works and adapt to them. I wrote a guide for this but it seems that its messed up and some parts got deleted.... I have no idea why

about CODEA, I have never used it before. You can try to install that as it seems to give more options in controlling fleets.

if there is one mod that I could absolutely recommend for an aspiring fleet commander it would be BOUNCE

[Triaxx2]

Bounce is useful.

CODEA works very well with mods, including Commodity Logisitics from the Bonus Pack. Basically it makes the fighters much smarter, and less likely die, while also letting you automate their rearmament and repair them if they get damaged. They'll also automatically launch to engage enemies, instead of having to be ordered to do so.

The only mod it doesn't work with is Anarkis Defense Systems and then only if you try and put them on the same ship. ADS has it's uses.

That said, the mods get testy when you go into scripts and mods in the general discussion forum.

[Alan Phipps]

"That said, the mods get testy when you go into scripts and mods in the [vanilla] general discussion forum."

Testy??? Nah, we generally just get the split-and-move scissors and gluepot out. (Then the posters get testy! )

Still, best to avoid that eh?

[Triaxx2]

He says he's not testy, but he's using Italics AND Bold.

Personally though, I'd argue that mods are part of the game since they're supported. Plus the bonus pack is nothing more than officially acknowledged mods.

[Nanook]

...Personally though, I'd argue that mods are part of the game since they're supported. Plus the bonus pack is nothing more than officially acknowledged mods.

They are not supported by Egosoft. They're supported by the mod makers. Egosoft just supports the ability to make mods. And if you really want to see a 'testy' moderator, keep discussing moderator actions on the open forum.

[Triaxx2]

Yeah, that's what I meant was them supporting the ability to mod, not the mods themselves.

As far as I'm aware there are only open forums, unless you're referring to PM's.