A few questions about pirates/friend-foe settings/M8s

[Kaunit]

So guys, I've deciced to get to back to X3:AP and I have some questions:

1. Where exactly do pirates spawn? I've taken over two pirate sectors, so I definitly know that they spawn in these sectors even without a pirate base. However, I've never actually see WHERE exactly they spawn. Could it be that they spawn only outside of your radar range or do they just spawn out of thin air?

2. How can I enforce the global F/F-settings? One of the pirate sectors I've taken over (Gaian Star) gets frequent visit from its former owners. That's not a big problem, as most of them are on good/neutral terms with me. However, as we all know some pirates will always be red. That's also not a problem, as my sector guard takes care of those guys. My real problem is that as soon as my sector guard attacks a red pirate, the set pirates to enemies in their F/F-setting, meaning that once they've dealt with the intruders, they will start to massacre the blue pirates just chilling in my sectors. That's mostly a problem as my sector guard can't handle frequent incursions of enemy capital ships. So is there are command to absouletly respect my global F/F-settings, short of changing them back manually?

3. M8s. They're pretty devastating against capitals, and as I have a few flying around, maybe I could use them against unfriendly visitors. But I don't know how they act in OOS combat. Are they still the bringers of doom and despair they are IS? And what commands should I give them/their turrets do make them the most effective?

[Bill Huntington]

You're asking well thought out questions.

I've only seen pirates spawn in a base. After they spawn they have a defined patrol that they follow. I think that they disappear after the patrol and then some new ones appear at the base. I've seen the patrols of the major races just appear at defined spots and do their patrols, but I've never seen pirates. When I trace a pirate patrol back to its origin, I've always found a base.

You've found the problem of dealing with red pirates. You can change the settings back quickly at Global level or Sector level but you do have to do it manually. The best way to deal with pirates is to have a high pirate rating. Then fewer red ones will spawn. And the ones that do won't be aggressive!

You're asking a lot of the AI. I think it has trouble with missiles. I just tried the setting of firing a Barrage with 'All' and the Viper fired two missiles and quit. That was a manual firing. You can be the pilot who gives up the report of what works and what doesn't.

[ancienthighway]

It's my understanding that missiles and drones don't work in OOS combat, with the exception of trader scripts dropping drones to escape.

As far as red pirates, many times they are under orders to do something that has nothing to do with you. They can safely be ignored unless you have gate guards set up, and then you run into the problem you have.

The better way to defend your stations in that sector would be with "Defend Position" commands. As long as the red doesn't enter the 10km radius of the defense, they are ignored.

Another option for defense is to not put any defense in place, then if your stations are attacked jump in with a bomber or missile frigate and one other ship. Fire off the missiles to get the kill, then beam to the other ship and jump the missile firer out of sector. Blues stay blue, reds evaporate, station is saved.

A weed and booze complex is a staple in my games in the NE sector of Hatikvah's Faith. It's off of the transit lanes between gates and far enough from the pirate routes that any red that show up are up to no good. Position defense eliminates the threat. Other pirates roaming in sector tend to be removed by any of the passing military fleets or escorted transports.

Gaian Star though is completely different. Out of the way of commonwealth traffic, it's basically a dead end sector unless you want to go to the Xenon sector off the south gate. If there's no pirate base in sector, chances are reds are coming for your stations.

[Nanook]

First of all, pirate spawns in pirate sectors can occur without any station present. These are usually the small groups of a few fighters and they tend to spawn off the edges of the map and make their way inwards. These spawns are usually limited to local activity. Pirates that spawn in bases are generally on a mission somewhere else and will ignore everybody, unless attacked, until they get to their destination. Pirate capitals seem to spawn in certain pirate sectors and then appear to jump to a destination. I've never observed the spawn-and-jump, so I'm assuming that's what happens. There are a limited number of pirate capitals in the game at any one time, and if you keep destroying them, they usually end up concentrated in the Gaian Star - Maelstrom sectors.

As for missiles, they do indeed work OOS in AP. In fact, if you jump an M8 or M7M into an OOS sector and give it the barrage command, they'll usually insta-kill the target no matter how far away. However, NPC's and AI-controlled player ships don't barrage. They just fire missiles off individually and each missile firing counts as an attack round OOS. So that's why it appears as if the missiles aren't being used. They just aren't very effective one at a time.

[Kaunit]

It's my understanding that missiles and drones don't work in OOS combat, with the exception of trader scripts dropping drones to escape.

As far as red pirates, many times they are under orders to do something that has nothing to do with you. They can safely be ignored unless you have gate guards set up, and then you run into the problem you have.

The better way to defend your stations in that sector would be with "Defend Position" commands. As long as the red doesn't enter the 10km radius of the defense, they are ignored.

Another option for defense is to not put any defense in place, then if your stations are attacked jump in with a bomber or missile frigate and one other ship. Fire off the missiles to get the kill, then beam to the other ship and jump the missile firer out of sector. Blues stay blue, reds evaporate, station is saved.

A weed and booze complex is a staple in my games in the NE sector of Hatikvah's Faith. It's off of the transit lanes between gates and far enough from the pirate routes that any red that show up are up to no good. Position defense eliminates the threat. Other pirates roaming in sector tend to be removed by any of the passing military fleets or escorted transports.

Gaian Star though is completely different. Out of the way of commonwealth traffic, it's basically a dead end sector unless you want to go to the Xenon sector off the south gate. If there's no pirate base in sector, chances are reds are coming for your stations.

Just to clear things up: my problem isn't defending these sectors from enemies, pirates or otherwise. At the moment, my fleet is rather small, so it would be a bit of a hassle to fight a constant war against respawning pirates, but nothing I couldn't handle. The real problem here is that I can either leave those guys alone, potentialy roaming "my" sectors with havoc on their mind OR indisriminately slaughter them all. The latter would be a bit annoying because it would cause problems with my weed (which I sell to pirates bases, mostly - and yes, I know that I can sell weed "directly to the customer" if I set its price low enough).

First of all, pirate spawns in pirate sectors can occur without any station present. These are usually the small groups of a few fighters and they tend to spawn off the edges of the map and make their way inwards. These spawns are usually limited to local activity. Pirates that spawn in bases are generally on a mission somewhere else and will ignore everybody, unless attacked, until they get to their destination. Pirate capitals seem to spawn in certain pirate sectors and then appear to jump to a destination. I've never observed the spawn-and-jump, so I'm assuming that's what happens. There are a limited number of pirate capitals in the game at any one time, and if you keep destroying them, they usually end up concentrated in the Gaian Star - Maelstrom sectors.

That's exactly my observation. I have definitely seen pirates spawn in sectors where there isn't a pirate base, but I've never acutally seen them spawn on the radar. They always spawned somewhere far of, so I thought that maybe there is some script that prevents them from spawning inside your radar range.
I'm not exactly sure how capitals spawn however. Since I've taken over Gaian Star, the only (pirate) capitals in that sector entered it through the gate. Not a single one spawned there in the hours since I took the sector. Actually, the only thing that spawned there was the pirate stock exchange, which respawned a few hours after I destroyed it. I also observed a much increased rate of pirate activity in the pirate highway since my takeover forced the pirates out of Gaian Star.
I wonder if I can basically force them to pack up their stuff and move to another sector if I take over the whole Gaian Star-Mahlstrom cluster. I'm a bit afraid that they will move to pirate highway, get crushed by the frequent race military patrols their and return to the Gaian Star cluster. If I get constantly respawning pirates in those sectors, they would be pretty much a constant battlefield, unsuited for stations or productions. On the other hand: playing "pirate ping-pong" with the Argons definitely sounds like a plan

[Nanook]

Well, that pirate stock exchange will continue to respawn there, just like all the other 'government' stations in the game - trading stations, shipyards, equipment docks, military outposts, etc. So you'll never be totally rid of them.

And by 'pirate highway', do you mean the area between Split Fire and Hatikvah's Faith? There is another area they commonly spawn in, too, the pirate sectors south and SE of CEO's Doubt. I've had pirate capitals 'jump' into those sectors, too. Perhaps if you're really vigilant, you can force them all into that stretch. But I doubt even that will work longterm. The game requires a certain number of pirates to exist so it will put them somewhere.

[ancienthighway]

As for missiles, they do indeed work OOS in AP.

Good to know.

[KaosKaos]

I have a followup question on pirates.

The pirates in the 3 pirate sector clusters are of different factions, right? So if I blow them up in maelstrom, my rating for the pirates in e.g. hatikvahs faith won't go down?

[pjknibbs]

No, that's not the case--there are only two pirate factions, the regular guys and the Yaki. If you blow up a regular pirate anywhere then your overall rep with the pirates will go down, making others more likely to attack you (although pirates will never actually stop attacking you no matter how friendly you get).

[ancienthighway]

You can make nice with the Yaki and not have any of them hostile with you.

Pirates on the other hand, as pjknibbs said, will always have some red towards you.

Duke's Buccaneers is a Corporation, not a pirate faction.

I don't remember if it was Reunion or TC, but one mission or series of missions would spawn ships of the Pirate Syndicate, frequently sought out by collectors as the tag didn't go away when captured.

[Jimmy C]

Should be TC, because you can't board ships in Reunion. Unless you're talking about fighters instead.

[hisazul]

You can make nice with the Yaki and not have any of them hostile with you.

Pirates on the other hand, as pjknibbs said, will always have some red towards you.

Duke's Buccaneers is a Corporation, not a pirate faction.

I don't remember if it was Reunion or TC, but one mission or series of missions would spawn ships of the Pirate Syndicate, frequently sought out by collectors as the tag didn't go away when captured.

To add, Dukes corporation, like all corporations in AP(not TC), has reputation derived from your race standing with the their allied/origin race. So if you are enemy with pirates then Dukes is also enemy. Yaki behave as normal race tho, unlike pirates. Making friends with pirates while having any kind of stationary property in their sectors is not worth it. Consistent reputation loss from swatting enemy pirates far outweights the little you gain from missions.

If you want a "pirate" game build in Yaki space or unowned/unoccupied sectors or even xenon sectors. Just not pirate sectors. Yaki will mop up pirates for you if anything...

[Triaxx2]

The only two missions I can come up with that might spawn ships like that are the end of the Goner Plot in TC, and the Yacht retrieval in Reunion.

[Jimmy C]

Making friends with pirates while having any kind of stationary property in their sectors is not worth it. Consistent reputation loss from swatting enemy pirates far outweights the little you gain from missions.

Not true. I take combat missions to capture the spawned ships. 4 out of 5 of those have Pirates as hostiles and remaining one is Yaki (I don't take those involving CW, Terrans or Xenon as hostiles) I can go through quite a lot of missions before the Pirates start becoming hostile at me. Then, just one or two hard missions for them and everything's fine for several tens of missions again. Since I'm often in Pirate sectors looking for missions (less chance of being interrupted while I'm capturing targets) I often take many Pirate missions when convenient too. It keeps them from being too upset at me.

[ancienthighway]

I have to agree with Jimmy C also. I have put a large booze and weed complex in Hatikvah's Faith along with ore and silicon mines. Occasionally I'd have to defend the complex or the southern most mine, but for the most part the red pirates left me alone since they had other orders. The reds rarely ventured into the gate to gate pathways so even the military crews that came through left them alone. I've even put up a small complex in Danna's Chance.

Nopileos' Memorial is another I'd consider putting stations in regularly, but it would have to be off the gate to gate traffic flow.

The key is to not to attempt to take over the pirate sector, but to co-exist with them. Give them a pirate destination to go to and the reds pretty much leave you alone.

[Triaxx2]

In fact it's actually better to have reds with destinations. Otherwise the majority are free-roamers that will go after freighters and eventually be led to your station.