Temporary Foe status following a friendly fire is a MAJOR problem

[drfz]

and here we go , again ...

i have no choice than wait 10 minutes because my taranis / balor squad probably touch one of these PMC light fighters . i vaporized xenon M but i barely avoid death because PMC capital shipyard targeted me ...

enough! i think i will idling few weeks , awaiting for some fixes.

- FF misconception
- fleet movement
- ui modification
- etc
- etc

[drfz]

my gamestart was empire builder. no plot enabled.

[Carl Sumner]

It usually takes more than a stray shot to make a station shoot at your ships. Like your fleet must have killed a few ships.

Ask a veteran whether "friendly fire" is forgivable. The usual answer: Only if it misses everyone!

[Luanda]

It usually takes more than a stray shot to make a station shoot at your ships. Like your fleet must have killed a few ships.

Ask a veteran whether "friendly fire" is forgivable. The usual answer: Only if it misses everyone!

nope, 2 shots with the shotgun or one series with the repeater gun is more than enough to make a station red. taking on account that the enemy fighters with their turd AI are always just facehugging the stationmodules its pretty bad... generally the only way to kill them is stopping behind them and slowly with precisely aimed shots take them down. A fighters gun shouldnt even scratch a stationmodule other than guns or shields so i dont get why a station get angry if you bounce a few shells on their far superior size...

[UniTrader]

@Lunanda: sorry, you are wrong with that:
the absolute minimum you need to get a station red is 5 seconds of consecutive hits with at least 1 hit per second. (means absolute minimum is 5 Shots - even with the shotgun since the multiple hits are counted as a single one)
Cooldown after that are 10 seconds iirc after which treshold decays at the same rate at which it builds up (so 5 hits every 10 seconds will also turn a Station red, but one hit every 12 seconds is fine)

note that the Station gives the Warning only at the last Hit you can safely do, and only once. so if you reach the limit a second time there will be no second warning.

this Data is taken from the Game files and verified by experiment because i was not entirely sure how to interpret it (now i am)

[Mightysword]

@Lunanda: sorry, you are wrong with that:
the absolute minimum you need to get a station red is 5 seconds of consecutive hits with at least 1 hit per second. (means absolute minimum is 5 Shots - even with the shotgun since the multiple hits are counted as a single one)
Cooldown after that are 10 seconds iirc after which treshold decays at the same rate at which it builds up (so 5 hits every 10 seconds will also turn a Station red, but one hit every 12 seconds is fine)

note that the Station gives the Warning only at the last Hit you can safely do, and only once. so if you reach the limit a second time there will be no second warning.

this Data is taken from the Game files and verified by experiment because i was not entirely sure how to interpret it (now i am)

I think you might be right about the amount it takes for a station to go red but I don't think your number on the warning is correct. If I understand correctly the warning will be issued at the 4th hit, and only once. However in my experience I can easily get a warning in just 1 or 2 shots, and they do give repeated warning multiple times.


In any case I agree that these threshold is way too low to be reasonable, ESPECIALLY the way the current the AI is behaving. It will take a few minutes and "thousands" of shot from the player's gun to dent a station shield, the threshold I think should be at least a magnitude of 10 time laxing than that.


Also, there should be a script to check the context of the hit. If there is no enemy around, I dont mind if you're given the warning even after only one hit since you would be doing it on purpose. But if there is enemies around, especially during a station protect mission, then the FF should be waived.

[George Wills]

Maybe it is written in Game files, but it not works that way sometimes.

In my experience one shotgun shot bounced off pirate into station is enough to warning and second indirect shot means station going to red. And often it is not temporary, but permanent change from ally station to enemy, just for protecting it? ... what a mess
God bless SAVE/LOAD

Even worse, sometimes it is enough to hit invisible parts of station, enemy can fly through that place, I'm able to follow him without bouncing, but projectiles explode on some invisible barrier and station is going angry ...

Worst event I saw few days ago. Perhaps 30 pirates were attacking shipyard, there were probably the same number of local fighters. I helped them a bit. When pirates were cleared, station was still firing, killing its own fighters. On the end there was not attackers nor protectors. That blue fighters even did not know, they are still in fight. They were back in patrol mode, while station was sniping them out one by one.
What a stupidity killing their own fighters just because they was protecting that station, is not it?

Well, good for me, I harvested there crates worth few millions, finishing another 2 rare engines.


My advice is: Do not fight close to stations. Or at last shot really really carefully only when you have really clear view, with station parts only behind you, not in front or sides.

Do I sound angry? No, I'm used already. I understand, it will need few more years of repairing and evolution to remotely approach to quality of X3. I paid for it to support that process.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Simple answer to avoid/minimise Skunk friendly fire: Don't use certain weapons (such as the shotgun) near stations and always try to shoot targets when you are angled away from stations or the stations are outside of firing range. That is what I have learned to do, and to be careful with missile usage. This is a similar logic to IonD and PSG usage guide lines for X2/X3.

Where capitals are concerned, I try to not get them involved with station proximity fights and generally have been successful on that score. Certain stations such as Dormant Bear are no-go areas for my capitals when hostile fighters/drones are around.

[Karmaticdamage]

I use the plasma cannon for precision shooting when in close quarters with a npc station. I think amount of damage done should be what triggers aggression as the particle repeater can land those five accidental shots in an instant.

[Luanda]

I use the plasma cannon for precision shooting when in close quarters with a npc station. I think amount of damage done should be what triggers aggression as the particle repeater can land those five accidental shots in an instant.

yes, i did that too because using anything else triggered foe status quickly but plasma is missing a lot as soon as the enemy moves due to its slow ammo.

[Nanook]

...
Worst event I saw few days ago. Perhaps 30 pirates were attacking shipyard, there were probably the same number of local fighters. I helped them a bit. When pirates were cleared, station was still firing, killing its own fighters. On the end there was not attackers nor protectors. That blue fighters even did not know, they are still in fight. They were back in patrol mode, while station was sniping them out one by one.
What a stupidity killing their own fighters just because they was protecting that station, is not it?...

This wasn't in Cuspid Splint, by any chance? The shipyard (and probably the other stations, too) is hostile to Heart of Albion, and there are several squadrons of HoA fighters permanently stationed there, for some odd reason. So when the HoA fighters engage pirates, as they often do, they sometimes accidently hit the stations. And that makes the stations shoot at them as well as the pirates, since they're both considered enemies. This can happen in other zones, too, but it's most noticeable in Cuspid Splint around the shipyard.

[Snafu_X3]

Umm. since an update the SSY in Cuspid isn't hostile to HoA (unless attacked).. but will remain hostile to PMC

Since this is is a jump beacon sector it's ideal for capping.. but remember to move your taxi away from the jump beacon (otherwise it's vulnerable to Tits spawning in..)

You may get a bunch of PMC freighters jumping in. Use those to train your marines (half the hull dmg will be provided by the HoA fighters). Once you get the timing right it's cap all the way!

In any case it's an ideal sector to pick up loot: top up your missiles & try to grab yet another rare engine

[Requiemfang]

Umm. since an update the SSY in Cuspid isn't hostile to HoA (unless attacked).. but will remain hostile to PMC

Since this is is a jump beacon sector it's ideal for capping.. but remember to move your taxi away from the jump beacon (otherwise it's vulnerable to Tits spawning in..)

You may get a bunch of PMC freighters jumping in. Use those to train your marines (half the hull dmg will be provided by the HoA fighters). Once you get the timing right it's cap all the way!

In any case it's an ideal sector to pick up loot: top up your missiles & try to grab yet another rare engine

Assuming of course the HOA survive the mass of PMC fighters in the sector and the stations the accidentally hit due to fighting PMC. It's a prime area for a fighter furball when you jump there. Either way, yes it's a prime area to cap cargo ships, heck even miner ships if you so need to build up a fleet of them instead of having to buy them.

[George Wills]

It was in Omicron Lyrae » Devoid Clime » Eternal Dawn

Attacked station was Mass Shipyard. Some of blue fighters were their own, others from Large BTO shipyard and from Fulmekron patroling in sector. All from the same faction (Jonferson Space Systems) as attacked station.
They just did that mistake protecting station with too high dedication ...

But who care, while they are soon replaced, created from thin air. Not as my ships, which could be easily entangled in the same tragedy

[drfz]

peoples , you are all missing the point here...

i wasnt fighting myself, my capital ships were doing the dirty job . i was 30 km aways from pirate fighters. a navy was patrolling overthere, and took part of the fight . i suppose my capital ship accidently hit some navy fighters...

and the shipyard instantly targeted me .

in the actual state, it's unplayable .

[Luanda]

peoples , you are all missing the point here...

i wasnt fighting myself, my capital ships were doing the dirty job . i was 30 km aways from pirate fighters. a navy was patrolling overthere, and took part of the fight . i suppose my capital ship accidently hit some navy fighters...

and the shipyard instantly targeted me .

in the actual state, it's unplayable .

ahh, yeah, thats the same issue just in bigger scale and you have no way to control it, except that you dont use capships to fight in allied zones. (which is quite bad). the worse thing is that not just the station simply becomes red but if your capship is on patrol, it will instantly start shooting the station and back. i had this only once, but ifs funny watching them. a fulmekron can wreak quite a havoc before going down i agree with you, its one major problem... what i fear is, the solution will be, as for the bad pathing the turned of collision damage, they will just turn off the friendly fire sooner or later. its fine for a temporary solution though, better than what we have now.

[linolafett]

There is very little friendly fire for capital ships. This was changed with one of the last patches.
The ai targets something, shoots and hits its target. If it doesnt hit its intended target (hits a friendly party for example) the damage caused is reduced from 100% to 10%. A reaction from npcs will take 10 times longer as before. This works, because the ai knows what the intended target was and therefore can reduce the damage caused to allies.

[Luanda]

There is very little friendly fire for capital ships. This was changed with one of the last patches.
The ai targets something, shoots and hits its target. If it doesnt hit its intended target (hits a friendly party for example) the damage caused is reduced from 100% to 10%. A reaction from npcs will take 10 times longer as before. This works, because the ai knows what the intended target was and therefore can reduce the damage caused to allies.

and whats up with stations like core dig or the others in albion which spawns the enemy fighters inside the station?

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

and whats up with stations like core dig or the others in albion which spawns the enemy fighters inside the station?

I'm not sure if they were spawning inside or were just not being pushed outside when I move from OOZ to IZ. But yeah, I have seen it most often with Core Dig and a second unique station, Lonely Giant (Albion).

[drfz]

There is very little friendly fire for capital ships. This was changed with one of the last patches.
The ai targets something, shoots and hits its target. If it doesnt hit its intended target (hits a friendly party for example) the damage caused is reduced from 100% to 10%. A reaction from npcs will take 10 times longer as before. This works, because the ai knows what the intended target was and therefore can reduce the damage caused to allies.

what you describe seems to be a good way to solve the problem.
unfortunatly , it's not enough ,because a such things should never happens


launching an assault on friendly station by purpose must result in an efficient answer from it . but it was not the case here . a navy swarm was evolving around my cap' ships , and voila .

bad, very bad. it's a game breaker if you ask me .