Q re Beginning X3 Reunion

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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siddham
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Q re Beginning X3 Reunion

Post by siddham » Sat, 25. Apr 15, 03:08

I have not played any X for a bit. I finished XBtF and X2 (the story lines) some time ago and am thinking of continuing now with Reunion.

So my question is this: I understand it takes a bit for the Reunion economy to get going at the start of the game. I was wondering would it make sense to start my game and park at the nearest station and leave the game running for a while before I actually begin to play. Start it up early in the morning perhaps and begin to play when I get back in the evening. Or let it run on its own overnight.

If there is any sense or point in doing something like this, how long should I leave it, so that when I start playing there will be stock in the Fabs?

I did star a game some time ago and found there was very low stock in the fabs and therefore high prices, and no way to make any profitssss.

Thanks

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sat, 25. Apr 15, 14:43

You do refer to the NPC Factories starting with relatively full resource stocks, but no products yet. Furthermore, all the NPC Free Traders start as empty.

The latter (Free Traders) is a change from the earlier games; up to X2 each Factory had their own freighters that did fetch resources for that Factory. X3R does not have them. Free Traders are like Trade Mk3 Universal Trader; roam around after the best offers (buy and sell). However Free Traders have a "shopping list", they don't trade everything. Some ware classes have much less freighters than others. Furthermore, after some time the Free Traders end up with full cargo-holds, because someone else is faster and "steals" the good deal. Anyway, over time the NPC logistic capacity decreases.

Yes, the start of the game has different challenges than an older game, that has "closer to equilibrium" of the simulation.

However, there might still be deals at start. The Space Fuel in Herron's Nebula, for example. Not many runs, but some credits nevertheless.


However, the Trade is not the only method to get credits. I recall steering my Buster (Xtreme start) towards Split space via Pirate sectors. Along that route I did witness a NPC fight between Pirates and some other race. Containers were dropping in that fight. Some of them were both small enough to scoop into Buster and valuable (both credits and reputation, when sold to Equipment Dock). Admittedly, that was all thanks to the Almighty RNG, but if I would have been doing nothing, there would never been that lucky roll of dice.

Even if I were a trader, I would probably map sectors, while "waiting".
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siddham
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Post by siddham » Sat, 25. Apr 15, 18:46

Last time I started I went off maping like you suggest since there was very little economic activity to pick up on.

Did I understand you right, that the NPC fabs in Reunion dont have their own freighters?

pjknibbs
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Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 25. Apr 15, 21:06

siddham wrote: Did I understand you right, that the NPC fabs in Reunion dont have their own freighters?
You did understand him right--that role is taken on by roaming free traders.

siddham
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Post by siddham » Sat, 25. Apr 15, 23:50

Wow!
How did I miss that?
How about when we build fabs? Do we leave it to roamers to supply them and sell the goods?

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Post by ancienthighway » Sun, 26. Apr 15, 01:26

You can assign your transports to work your stations. Counting on the NPC traders to keep you in stock of resources and selling your products doesn't work unless you buy at near max price and sell at near min price...and your money drains away with each transaction.

siddham
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Post by siddham » Sun, 26. Apr 15, 01:56

Thanks guys :)
I guess I should read up on the X3 economy.
I assumed it was similar to X2.

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Geek
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Post by Geek » Sun, 26. Apr 15, 12:22

It is quite different indeed.

In case you did not notice, factories comes in various sizes and productivity.
Standard factories produce (and consume resources) at the same rate than X2 (S = 1x). But there are bigger ones :
M = 2x
L = 5x
XL = 10x
Right on commander !

siddham
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Post by siddham » Sun, 26. Apr 15, 15:15

If anyone can direct me to a good account of the X3 economy I would be obliged.

I am very undecided at the moment as to whether to play Reunion at all. Or whether I should go directly to either TC or AP. I played through the storylines in the early games, and I was thinking to continue that into Reunion and beyond. But the story was not well crafted or told in X2; and I have heard it is not much better in Reunion. Playing an X game takes a lot of time.

jlehtone
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Post by jlehtone » Sun, 26. Apr 15, 16:16

Apricot's X3 Handbook http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=1571302
should contain Giskard's X3 Economy Guide, among other material.

X3R, X3TC, and X3AP have the same economy model. The X3R story continues the Brennan family's saga. TC and AP have other characters in focus.


I prefer term Scale over the Size. Factories have been scaled up by simply multiplying the stock and units-per-cycle values.

The most important effect of scaling is that the mineral resources of the X-Universe are fivefold. (There is no reason the build Mine M anywhere; always select Mine L.)


Complexes. The NPC do have "Forge Complexes", but they differ from player Complexes. An NPC Light Shield Forge can produce all light shield types, but it produces only one type at a time, i.e. it does not run cycles in parallel.

Player Complex is a group of Factories that all run simultaneously. Their resource and product stocks are pooled together. A complex has only one Account though (the 2 bil limit). A SPP XL can hold 50'000 ECells. A complex of 5 SPP XL has a common 250'000 ECells stock.

In X2 you could have set up CLS Mk1 (Internal logistics) to transfer wares between Factories. That is still possible in X3, but the Complex construction is an alternative. I actually did prefer a combination: CLS Mk1 to haul wares between Complexes that were in different sectors.


Secondaries behave a bit differently too. An X2 Factory sends freighters to buy secondary resources and competes with primary consumers of the same ware.

The X3 has separate price range for secondaries. It is usually more narrow than the primary price range. Thus, a primary user of Nostrop with empty stock will offer more than an empty secondary consumer of Nostrop. This should supposedly make the Free Traders to serve the primary need and only in surplus situations haul to the secondary consumers.


Cycle times. An NPC PPC Complex produces gPPC quicker than player gPPC Forge (but the NPC opts occasionally to produce alphas and betas too, unlike the single-minded player). Overall, the cycle times are shorter than in X2. Combine the shorter cycle time with increased scale and massive mineral resources and you get your M2 fleet equipped much quicker than in X2.


GoD. Global Decision Engine. In X2 the Factory locations are predetermined. If a Factory is destroyed, it will never respawn. (The Docks and Pirate Bases do respawn.)

The X3 have GoD. The X3 have predetermined Factory locations, but not all Factories are on the map. The GoD does occasionally destroy or respawn Factories. The events are based on supply and demand in some fashion that remains unknown. GoD actually sends a NPC TL loaded with a Factory Kit to build a new Factory.

Worst case examples are X3R Tractor Beam Forges and X3TC Terran economy. Both are eagerly removed by GoD and there is never sufficient need to respawn them. Loss of sources of equipment that there is no other means to get is naughty. The X3R Bonuspack has undocumented script that ensures the existence of at least one Tractor Forge exists. Docking player M5's to every "vulnerable" Forge should stop GoD's mayhem in X3TC.

The best case example is that sectors entirely demolished by roaming Xenon, Kha'ak, player, and Terran-Commonfield warfare do get rebuild by GoD.


Mobile mining. The implementation is different than in X2 and you can set your AI ships to do the mining automatically (even sell). One of the games has infinitely respawning rocks, which means as much Nvidium as you can haul away, and in safe sector. What can you say about a possibility to start a business that requires less starting capital than Trade Mk3, is safer than UT, does not depend on NPC Factories, and will produce a billion already within the first game day? Disshonesst profitsss?
Goner Pancake Protector X
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There is no Box. I am the sand.

siddham
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Post by siddham » Sun, 26. Apr 15, 18:12

Thank you jlehtone for that very helpfull overview :)

I have Apricot's Handbook in one of my X folders so I will have a look at it before venturing forth in search of profitsss.
Still undecided about which game to play next?
Maybe reading Apricot will help me decide.

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