Choices, choices, choices~ Give me your opinon.

[weltall2]

Since X Rebirth was not what I expected it to be, now that I feel like going back into the X Universe I started playing all the old ones almost from the beginning (Well I watched a let's play for the first one and it's expansion). I just finished Rebirth's main scenario and I am about to enter my favorite X3TC. I hardly remember how the vanilla game was like since the first time I played it was many years ago, but I am guessing the gameplay will be like X3R. The last time I played X3TC was with the XTended mod and at least compared to X3R it was soooo different from that I remember. XTended was awesome and I loved every single second of it. along with the important lesson "It is better to install archive mods manually and not with the Plugin Manager".

My first question is; Should I play X3TC's main plot with XRM or not? I am going to follow the main plotline on the way to Albion Prelude and then play the main plotline there. After that I will most probably return to X3TC to start a modded game and enjoy a handful of hours invested, because X3TC can't make me feel I waste them, in some relaxing and sometimes exciting pass time. Will I "experience" all that XRM has to offer if I just go through the main plotline, or it is better to play it afterwards that I will start another game and I will play for many long hours?

My second question is; Should I choose XRM or go for Litcube's Universe or maybe New Horizons? As I am understanding XRM enhances the experience of the game while the other two are like XTended, adding new stories and alter the universe... well or extend it. I definitely would love to play a new story but I have to admit that I have not played all the scenarios in TC so I could play a new one with the XRM. Some opinions to push me either way would be awesome! Also if LU is suggested, should I try to play it on AP instead of TC?

My final question is; Which are the most stable mods that change the universal relationships and race actions? There seem to be a couple of them around like Improved Races or like Pirate Guild and Yaki armada which I use and these two made the pirates really awesome. I never though used other, ones like Improved Races or anything that changes how the races act.. well I think.

The mods I have used in the past are they following;

Pirate Guild 3 v1.59
Yaki Armada 2 Test Build 210
Economy and Supply v3.4.04
Sector Takeover v1.57 (haven't used it up to today because I was using the X3R version like an idiot only because I thought v1.76 was just newer)
Capital Ship Energy Cell Generator v2.06
Capture Stations v1.0
Convert Passenger to Marine v1.0 (didn't use much)
Marine Training Manager v3 (reason I did not use the other one above)
Enhanced Briefings
Mobile Ship Repairs v1.7
Salvage Claim Software v1.21
Salvage Command Suite v4.11
NPC Bailing Addon v1.7.8
Property Baron v1.0
New Race Rankings
Ranks for Xenon, Kha'ak, Pirates and Yaki v1.03
Release Passengers v1.0.10
Saturn Complex Hub 0.99b
Sectormap Revamped v2.1
Univyherse Colored Map v3.1
Universal Best Buys-Sells Locator v2.51a
Weapons Quickswap v1.03

[solarahawk]

If you really want to play the various plots and universe wars, then I recommend XRM on AP. You can install the X3 TC Plots for AP mod, which makes the TC plots available in AP, which gives you the better plots of TC with the gameplay improvements of AP. (The AP storylines were pretty weak, and that is saying something for X3.)

AP is basically a bug-fixed, improved version of TC, so I recommend using it regardless of your other choices.

XRM is a fantastic overhaul, and I have put many hours into it. Most of the mods you listed work great in XRM, although a few required tweaks or manual patching to work correctly in XRM. I forget specifics off the top of my head, but I recall I had to make some edits to STO to fix a known issue with it and XRM. Also, Saturn Complex Hub is a great alternative to traditional complexes, but it has to be manually edited to also work in XRM (to make the hubs available for sale in Saturn 3). All details about fixing the mods to work in XRM were discussed in their forum threads (though you have to hunt for the discussions.)

That said, my focus is solely on LU from this point on. It is basically the X3 Vanilla game we always wanted. It is the fast and stable game Egosoft was never able to make. Litcube streamlined the game scripts and underlying game architecture to eliminate most of the bugs that have plagued the game since forever. He also integrated new game features common to many of the most popular mods from the community. The game is so efficient and stable, the default SETA rate is 10x and it actually works reliably.

Because so many changes were made to the former vanilla scripts in LU, most script addons and mods are not compatible out of the box. But many of the features provided by the scripts and mods in your list are already provided by LU. LU adds a couple new "Baddies" to challenge your game, and a few of us hanging around are working on new mods and scripts for LU to provide more options for gameplay. I am close to releasing an updated Pirate Guild for LU, along with some other stuff I have in the pipe. FYI, LU is AP only.

However, LU is a true sandbox experience. There are no plots or scripted storylines. There are missions and addons to improve the mission experience in LU. The baddies, Phanon and OCV, provide the impetus for you to push yourself. If you really want to play the plots, then XRM is a better choice. I do suggest you try setting up a copy of LU and playing a couple hours with it to see how it feels. It is a refreshing experience.

I am sure others will have additional opinions and ideas for you.

[weltall2]

Thanks for your reply solarhawk. So there is a way to actually play the TC plots on AP? Now that sounds awesome, but I hope that does not lock out the AP plots. The reason I mentioned about returning to TC is because a lot of people seem to prefer TC when it comes to playing a long modded game. At least from comments people say it has less bugs and crashes, but honestly I never tried it myself.

I really want to go for XRM and experience it and I do not really have to use all of the mods, but I would like at least some. I indeed know some will not be working, since with XTended too I had to look for fixes and drop a lot of the mods that were incompatible. I do not think though I will be using Saturn Complex Hub, mostly because I think it does not even work on AP, but if there is a way of altering it and making it work, I will probably try to do it.

I have read a bit about LU when it first appeared (well or at least when it was still fresh) and read about it on their site, but I never really tried it. To be absolutely honest, my problems with the game only came from X3R. Even now that I replayed it X3R seemed broken. Then again the memories that remain of X3TC are from XTended, so I do not know if they too fixed a lot of things making the game less broken. The plots are "short" if you just go for them and I say short compared to how much one can spend on this great game.

I will definitely try LU although I hope I will be able to get used to the part where everyone mentions that the game becomes less action and more strategy oriented. Not that I will mind it but I just hope I will immerse myself in the game. I do not mind LU is AP only, only because like you said AP is a fixed version of TC. I have seen many many people saying that if they could play TC with the fixes and alterations of AP they would be really happy, this is why I am in a happy shock with the information you gave me that I can play the TC plots on AP.

[Hector0x]

I've played with the TC plots in AP once and it was pretty epic. The war started after the main storyline and if i remember correctly i was even able to end it and play some side stories afterwards.

But after getting into LU right on its release there was no going back, because of the increased performance compared to vanilla and all the other overhauls. The best thing is, that it has an export functionality. You can always restore your game state and remove any traces of mods if desired. Like switching between the two sidemission mods that already exist.

Really looking forward to the pirate guild and yaki armada mods for LU.

[solarahawk]

Not sure where you see people preferring TC over AP for long modded games. Everyone is pretty consistent in agreeing that AP is the better platform.

SCH works fine on AP and XRM. It just has to be tweaked so they show up for sale. I used them exclusively for my fabs in my last extended XRM playthrough.

TC was a big improvement in the fundamentals over X3R. As mentioned, AP smooths out a few issues and improves things a bit further. LU is a quantum leap forward in the gameplay. You have to experience it to understand it, though if you haven't played X3 in a long while, the difference may not be as surprising. But if you then try to go back to AP or XRM, you may find them sluggish and irritating.

LU is not necessarily less action-oriented. It just increases the importance of strategic planning. The action can be even more intense than vanilla AP. The war between the Argon and Terrans and between other Commonwealth races are gone in LU. But the relative peace there is balanced by more dangerous enemies that threaten you and the other races.

[weltall2]

I've played with the TC plots in AP once and it was pretty epic. The war started after the main storyline and if i remember correctly i was even able to end it and play some side stories afterwards.

But after getting into LU right on its release there was no going back, because of the increased performance compared to vanilla and all the other overhauls. The best thing is, that it has an export functionality. You can always restore your game state and remove any traces of mods if desired. Like switching between the two sidemission mods that already exist.

Really looking forward to the pirate guild and yaki armada mods for LU.

Makes me want now even more to play LU XD I do not really though understand what better performance it has, except if it means not crashes or bugs that make you unable to continue. I never really had a big performance problem with X3 and I always switched it to 10x SETA. The only "loss" I could see was that the AI would become slightly more dumb, but never really had slowdowns. The only slowdowns I can remember were in end plot battles where a lot of things were going on, but mostly on cutscenes, not while playing that much.

Not sure where you see people preferring TC over AP for long modded games. Everyone is pretty consistent in agreeing that AP is the better platform.

SCH works fine on AP and XRM. It just has to be tweaked so they show up for sale. I used them exclusively for my fabs in my last extended XRM playthrough.

TC was a big improvement in the fundamentals over X3R. As mentioned, AP smooths out a few issues and improves things a bit further. LU is a quantum leap forward in the gameplay. You have to experience it to understand it, though if you haven't played X3 in a long while, the difference may not be as surprising. But if you then try to go back to AP or XRM, you may find them sluggish and irritating.

LU is not necessarily less action-oriented. It just increases the importance of strategic planning. The action can be even more intense than vanilla AP. The war between the Argon and Terrans and between other Commonwealth races are gone in LU. But the relative peace there is balanced by more dangerous enemies that threaten you and the other races.

I am getting it from what I remember. Of course back then AP was not v3.1 so I can't really know how things are nowadays. I am actually really glad that you say everyone seems to prefer AP now, because I do remember I was unhappy I bought AP only for it's plots and then had to go back to TC. But again it was years ago and AP was not version 3.1. Even the last time recently that I played XTended I preferred TC over AP because the AP version was described as Experimental.

If I did not want to replay so much the main storyline I would try LU right now. Seems I am going to use the mod you suggested to play the TC plots on AP and after I finish all the plots that I can, I will play LU. I hope XRM is compatible with the mod that adds the TC plots to AP I am all pumped up already and full of joy that I managed to finish the bug infested X3R~

[Joelnh]

I have played the 3 most popular mods and all have things that I liked from them. (XRM, XTC and LU) But LU was the only one that allowed me to have tons of factories / complexes without any game play hit.

I have even made a minor patrol mod for XTC. all it did was allow an equal chance of pirate, khaak, xenon and yaki enemies spawning. and instructions how to change it to what % you wanted.

If I had better coding skills I would do more (like add a bounty hunter mod like in XRM for LU).

I am also looking forward to the Pirate / Yaki guild additions.

[weltall2]

I have played the 3 most popular mods and all have things that I liked from them. (XRM, XTC and LU) But LU was the only one that allowed me to have tons of factories / complexes without any game play hit.

I have even made a minor patrol mod for XTC. all it did was allow an equal chance of pirate, khaak, xenon and yaki enemies spawning. and instructions how to change it to what % you wanted.

If I had better coding skills I would do more (like add a bounty hunter mod like in XRM for LU).

I am also looking forward to the Pirate / Yaki guild additions.

Thankfully I never had big CPU issues, even when in XTended I made many spaghetti complexes. Then again like I said I am not sure if XTended fixed issues on the original and I never played the vanilla to a point of making a huge empire. Although with the Saturn Complex Hub I hope there will be no issues either way.

Indeed. These two were the only ones that alter how AI acts and I wanted them madly and after I used them just could not go without. The Pirate Guild kind of destroys the whole non organized Pirate faction but either way it is awesome.

[Hector0x]

Makes me want now even more to play LU XD I do not really though understand what better performance it has, except if it means not crashes or bugs that make you unable to continue. I never really had a big performance problem with X3 and I always switched it to 10x SETA.

A big plus is the reduction in the firing rates for every weapon. Battles with dozens of capships and hundreds of fighters from multiple factions run pretty fluid.
Xtended always had a major constant fps hit for me when the whole universe was populated and discovered. Everything above a battle of like 6 cap ships with about 70 fighters total was a slideshow.

[weltall2]

Makes me want now even more to play LU XD I do not really though understand what better performance it has, except if it means not crashes or bugs that make you unable to continue. I never really had a big performance problem with X3 and I always switched it to 10x SETA.

A big plus is the reduction in the firing rates for every weapon. Battles with dozens of capships and hundreds of fighters from multiple factions run pretty fluid.
Xtended always had a major constant fps hit for me when the whole universe was populated and discovered. Everything above a battle of like 6 cap ships with about 70 fighters total was a slideshow.

I never used as my fleet more than 4 cap ships and how many fighters each could fit so I can't tell, but all the universe was open and I had an advanced satellite on each sector and eventually I even changed the advanced satellite scanner distance to make all the sector visible, when I was to the point of being overpowered anyway. It did not really kill my FPS that much but indeed in specific sectors I did have FPS drop.