Help me understand Sector/Local/Universal Traders

[Yosharian]

So the main thing I'm unclear on is do they become completely independent units that you no longer control? Or can you still control/alter them?

For example:

1) Can I stop them from trading, remove the Trading Mk3 software and put it on another ship? If so, will the level transfer to the new ship?

2) Can I give them better equipment? Can I upgrade the ship? (after setting the trade command ofc)

3) Do I get alerts when they are under attack?

4) Can I order them to do specific trades?

Thanks for reading.

[lighters]

1. I'm not sure, but I think it should be possible to transfer a pilot with a Special Command Software. Never tried myself though.

2. When you issue any order (i.e. dock at a station so that you can upgrade the ship) to the ship doing sector/universe trading, the automated trading stops. After you're done with manual commands, restart the trader using the same Start sector trader/start universe trader commands. You won't hamper its further trading in any way by doing that.

3. Yes you get alerts when they're under attack. UTs also auto-jump out of trouble when attacked. Not sure about STs confined to a single sector though.

4. I don't think you can restrict the list of wares or affect the trades it does. If you need the ship to do a specific trade, you can order it manually, then restart the automated trader.

Basically, they are independent while they're performing the trading command, but you can stop it at any point and restart at any point later.

[Yosharian]

Thanks, that helps a lot!

So I can still actually get in and drive the ship, right? And do I need to transfer the pilot out to another ship before I do that, or...

That's the only thing I'm still unclear on.

[lighters]

You can get in when necessary, drive the ship yourself, get out, and continue sector trading command. Or just transfer the pilot out to another ship.

Not sure why you'd want that though - are you planning on training pilots on some ship that you'll need for later use yourself? Usually you just start them in a freighter and leave them trading in it forever

[Bill Huntington]

Yes, you can take it over any time you want. You can use it as your personal ship, or give it commands you want it to do. When it's done, you can restart the ship as a UT/ST.

Many of us don't use UT, as the AI has a habit of crossing Xenon and pirate areas. We start the ship as an LT (Local Trader) and give it a defined trading area. If a station is not used, the GOD engine might remove it. If you have an LT covering that area, removals don't happen. I cover all the AP and TC universe with LTs. I use Springblossoms as LTs in Terran Space and Aldrin. The LT can still raise to Level 20.

Good Luck.

[ancienthighway]

Question 1: The level is associated with the pilot, not the ship or MK3 package. See the stickies for information on MK3 usage. The information put together for Reunion pretty much holds true for all the X3 games.

Question 2: As a pilot becomes more proficient at his job, he will automatically pick up mosquito missiles if Fight Commands I and II are present (it won't buy the software), drones, jump drive, and even expand cargo hold if it isn't at it's maximum.

As far as transferring pilots, I have rarely found a time when I needed to transfer Mk3 pilots, and those rare times are simply because the wrong ship was being used. Once the pilot has enough experience, I reassign the ship and pilot to another area and start up a new sector trader in the training sector.

Expanding on what Bill said, in TC and AP once the pilot reaches level 6, you can start a sector trader with a range to trade in adjacent sectors also. The traders are Local Traders. Reunion doesn't have the LT feature.

[pref]

4. If you're playing AP, there is a blacklist for ST/UTs where you can specify sectors/stations to avoid. Thats all control you have over who they trade with. It's under additional ship commands.
But you can give them any order, that will cancel the current command, and once you're done you can just command them again to ST/UT.

Anyway this is more of a CLS/CAG task to trade automatically in certain wares only.

[Yosharian]

Thanks so much guys.

Last question: so is the pilot an actual freight item or is it more of an 'upgrade' type of thing that is swapped between ships?

[Timsup2nothin]

It's a pilot. Pilots are managed through commands that are accessed through the Mk3 software. They aren't really like freight or upgrades as they are assigned in the pilot slot not as cargo.

[Yosharian]

It's a pilot. Pilots are managed through commands that are accessed through the Mk3 software. They aren't really like freight or upgrades as they are assigned in the pilot slot not as cargo.

Ah ok. Thanks!

[NOO3TASTIC]

Question 2: As a pilot becomes more proficient at his job, he will automatically pick up mosquito missiles if Fight Commands I and II are present (it won't buy the software), drones, jump drive, and even expand cargo hold if it isn't at it's maximum.

I don't think pilots upgrade their cargo bay on their own. I haven't seen it happen in my game yet. Running X3AP 3.1 with bonus pack (no mods or scripts). Even at lvl 25 UT are sill running with default 6000 cargo bay of hayabusa.

[ajax34i]

1. Pilot name appears at the top of the Info window for the ship. For MK3 traders, both ships have to be in space in order to initiate the command to transfer the pilot. For CLS, the ships have to be docked. And obviously both ships need the MK3 / CLS software and possibly Special command software for the transfer to work. If you remove the MK3 software from the ship with the pilot, the pilot will disappear.

2. MK3 and CLS traders will try to get their own equipment if you don't give it to them, which may result in a detour into dangerous territory in order to shop for the nearest available equipment dock. It's best to max their shields, give them 50 mosquito missiles, IRE in the back turret (if any), and 14 combat drones. Set their jump drive fuel settings to 500 cells or so, they seem to be happy with that. And I believe they do upgrade their cargo if you're decently rich and it's less than 5000 or so.

3. You get alerts of attacks, but keep in mind that the typical TS ship's 50-75 MJ of shielding won't be sufficient against even a single M3, and pirates attack in groups of 4 fighters, or M6 - M7 and escorts. Roaming Xenon are usually M6 or M7 with a swarm of fighters. So the shields won't even last the 10 seconds it takes the trader to engage his Jump Drive. Your best bet is to make sure that the automated traders do NOT go into dangerous territory, by using the blacklist and by making sure they are well supplied and fueled so they don't go shopping through the nearest pirate or Xenon area.

4. You cannot order MK3 traders to do specific trades. You CAN, however, keep them as Sector Traders, which means you can limit them to an area. For example, basing a ST in Argon Prime + 3 jumps limits that trader to just the Argon sectors, which limits him to ore, Argon foods, energy, and some of the Argon products. Blacklist spacefuel, it is illegal and your trader will get shot.

[Rive]

... So the shields won't even last the 10 seconds it takes the trader to engage his Jump Drive.

I wonder how does this works with the turn based OOS combat rules. If the trader survives the first turn, it can automatically escape?

[jlehtone]

Blacklist spacefuel, it is illegal and your trader will get shot.

AFAIK, the Trade Mk3's blacklist can list sectors and stations, not wares. Thus, it would be possible to blacklist the Distillery.

X3AP Bonuspack contains Blacklist Manager, a script that allows modification of the blacklist. The same script exists for X3TC too.


Technically,

Spoiler

Show

objects can have arbitrary member variables. (Object has simple list of name-value pairs.) Scripts can check (and update) whether object (ship) has a variable, and if yes, what is its value. Scripts can check whether ship has ware/upgrade.

Something like:

IF has ware "Trade Mk3"
THEN show command "Start Sector trader"

Or:

IF has ware "Trade Mk3" and
has var "mk3level" and
10 < "mk3level"
THEN show command "Start UT"


Moving a pilot is then a simple:

ship B mk3level := ship A mk3level
delete ship A mk3level

Pilots are free entrepreneurs.

[Honved]

Blacklisting a sector will prevent the trader from making deals in that sector. They can and will still pass through those sectors on their way to a deal, or to buy equipment upgrades and jump fuel.

I've moved traders to bigger ships, but it's kind of a pain. Generally, it's easier to start a fresh trader in a new ship.

I prefer restarting my STs as LTs at Level 6. Each 2 levels of experience above that, you can restart them with 1 more range. I normally set range to 1 or 2, but an LT in Argon Prime with Range 3 can cover that entire Argon region without ever straying into Pirate or Xenon space. Since they can wander freely within their territory, I often set 1 to cover the whole Argon Prime vicinity, another in the northern half, and one in the southern half. That keeps one small area from getting all the attention, yet allows some longer-ranged trades.

A LT can significantly boost the economy wherever they operate, by providing whatever is needed and taking away excess finished goods that would otherwise clog production.

[RainerPrem]

Hi,

...

Blacklist spacefuel, it is illegal and your trader will get shot.

Are you sure? I've got traders selling ONLY spacefuel and weed and I never saw one shot.

cu
Rainer

[ancienthighway]

AI traders carrying illegal wares can freely move through any sector up until the point the police scan them. At that point, cargo will be dumped, some rep will be lost, and the trader go on his way.

If you are personally flying ship and are scanned, if you don't dump the illegal cargo, you will be shot down.

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Blacklisting a sector will prevent the trader from making deals in that sector. They can and will still pass through those sectors on their way to a deal, or to buy equipment upgrades and jump fuel.

Yeah, a bit disappointing. That's the great thing about gnasirator's bugfix for the Mk3 Traders and the Blacklist as these issues are improved on a lot.

That bugfix can be found with the updated versions of TC/AP Bonus Pack items in my signature.

[Honved]

AI traders carrying illegal wares can freely move through any sector up until the point the police scan them. At that point, cargo will be dumped, some rep will be lost, and the trader go on his way.

If you are personally flying ship and are scanned, if you don't dump the illegal cargo, you will be shot down.

I don't think I've ever had a trader scanned for illegal goods except while I was in the same sector. My suspicion is that it's only a problem if you're there. Be forewarned that your mere presence can get people killed, either via scanning for illegal goods, plowing into stations or gates at high speed, or due to other wonky In Sector behavior. Oddly enough, your traders are a lot safer when you're not around to protect them.

[ajax34i]

In any case, Argon areas tend to be self-sufficient, with enough ore, food, and energy, and the only thing missing being transportation. So setting up some traders works really well. The other races aren't that fortunate; their spaces often lack a critical resource (ore, nostrop oil, bofu, etc.), so if you really want to make money from trading, you need to also install some fabs for whatever resource they're missing.

I usually blacklist the distilleries in Argon space. You can make a fortune by selling spacefuel, but it's better to keep your distilleries and traders restricted to unknown or pirate sectors, and Logistics (CLS2) traders are better at it than Trade MK3 traders.