Playership for all the plots (with some inspiration from firefly :D)

[Space Traveller]

Hi, after a long time of inactivity it's me again and i've come back to X3.
Yes this is somewhat the one millionth and one thread about the "what is the best playership?????" question, but I think i have some....individual requirements which make it a bit special.

First of all, i'm playing X3 Ap with the "TC plots for AP" Mod. And i want to do most plots again, and also the ATF Outpost plot (From what i've read, it must be quite awesome)

So where it gets a bit "special": I'd really like to play all the plots in one "player ship", thinking a bit about the Firefly series and the crew of the Serenity. This is why it shouldn't be an M1 or M2 or another huge ship, but something smaller and reasonable. I fully understand that this is only doable to a certain extent, but this is just the way i'd like to play (most of) the plots this time.
(Now the firefly was fully unarmed and this would not get me far in X3 TC - this is out of question )
In case someone wants to participate here but does not know firefly (you should watch it, even though it's only one season, it's awesome): The Serenity is a transporter vessel with a crew of 8 people. In the series, it's completely unarmed and not made for combat. The pilot however did do some really nice manoevers with such a rather sluggish ship sometimes. Pictures of it can be found all over google, this for example would be one


I was thinking about the following ships:
- Hyperion, but i fear it might be to weak on it's own. Regarding the (somewhat wanted) similarity to the Serenity from Firefly, it would match very well due to the two external docking ports of course. Still i fear, 1Gj of shielding and the overall M6+ force wont bring me through plots like final fury...
- Griffon, it's a great playership overall and has docking ports. Also it's very small for an M7 and probably just fine in size (regarding the similarity to a certain vessel ) Of course, it lacks anti capital firepower, but that might make it even better for my kind of "story".
- Ariadne, looks great and can even dock a TP (which would suit so well the serenity idea ), but this craft is far to weak i guess. Same for the Guppy of course. It's a shame, because TP docking would be awesome for a playership, but oh well...
- Cormorant/Deimos/Agamemnon - they would all look nice on paper, but they are already very big :/
- Heavy Centaur Prototype - Just the right size and the design even reminds me a little bit of a "certain ship"....but i fear it's far to weak overall? Also the cargo bay is extremly small....
- Acinonyx - all in all, it's an awesome playership, even for plots, and has the firepower to hunt M1 and M2. Also fires boarding pots, has cargospace and all. Definitely a possibility, but maybe it's still too weak? And also, it looks extremly military with those two "gattling guns" - not exactly the firefly style

What's also sad about HCP and Acinonyx is the total lack of hangar slots. I mean, you cannot have everything, of course, but hangar slots for a long time playership would be really appreciated i guess.

So what do you think? Which ship do you think is strong enough to get you through all plots (with some exceptions sometimes of course) yet small enough to resemble a ship like the Serenity a bit? Also, I have absolutely no idea how much firepower i'm going to need for "ATF Outpost", maybe someone could hint that with as little spoilers as possible?

[The Q]

Hyperion would be my choice from the listed, due to its docking capabilities and overall stats.

Acinonyx

Is not an option, as you just get it through a plot and in the list of plots it's one of the last ones.

[Triaxx2]

Just about any ship is capable of completing the plots. It comes down to the pilot's ability, and the player's automatically a cut above the opposition. O:FF needs some anti-station firepower at the end, but even an M5 can eventually wear them down if it can stay alive.

My suggestion would be a Shrike. There's very little it can't do, and it does have docking points for any ships that bail. True, it's bit slow, but it can knock out just about anything with it's guns and has missiles for the rest.

[ancienthighway]

You won't find an M6 or M7 with weaponry to take on an M1 or M2. While Teladi M7s can mount a limited number of capital weapons, it is limited number. With that in mind, your main weapons for those big ships are distance, missles, drones, and fighters.

The Guppy is the fastest M7M that can be bought. It even faster than the bulk of the M6s that are available. The Griffon Sentinel and Panther Raider are not that far behind on speed, have better shielding, but less cargo space made even smaller by 4 times as much shielding. They Hyperion is the fastest of the lot, but is limited to only 2 fighters and much smaller cargo capacity. It's also dockable anywhere which makes it a viable candidate.

So, the Guppy is fastest, has the biggest hold, and can dock a TS/TP.

The Panther has the most bays for docking fighters, and a Falcon Hauler or two can handle most ship supply requirements.

The Griffon is the smallest ship but the second most cargo space. I'd recommend only one Falcon Hauler for resupply because of the 9 fighter limitation.

The Hyperion is the only M6, limited to two fighters, smaller cargo hold than the M7s, but faster and can dock anywhere.

Don't rule out the Springblossom. When armed with the PM/AML or PSSC it is quite a potent ship, although missiles are limited to mediocre and weak (but quite spammable). No fighters, but it can dock anywhere.

And finally, the Chokaro is might be worth considering, especially if you can get the 6 fighter version. A pure transport with very limited self defense weapons and missiles. It will get you through a number of early plot missions, but would come up seriously short in the big battles.

There's something about the Guppy with a Geochen, 10 fighters of your choice (I'm using Spitfyres) and 60 marines that tickles my fancy.

[Jimmy C]

I wouldn't call the HCP weak, unless you meant it couldn't kill an M2 or M1 by itself. I'd only go after those with an M2 myself.
Put CIGs in the mains and PBGs in the turrets. It will kill M7s and M6s while the turrets roast any fighter escorts protecting your target. Use a custom turret command for best effect.
Small cargo space is a legitimate concern, rendering it only suitable for sector defence.

[Triaxx2]

I rarely had an issue in TC with the Shrike. Between a battery of eight IBL's to knock down the shields and Gauss to chew through the hull, the only M2's I feared were the Tyr and the Kha'ak Destroyer.

Presumably it's a tad more difficult in AP with the thicker hulls, but the insane EBC only armament I use, means you have the entire energy reserve for the forward guns.

[Space Traveller]

Hi, first of all thank you for the fast replies. I'll try to cover must suggestions

Acinonyx - you get it way to late, very legitimate point. I guess it's off the list any way

Shrike - Yeah, i've used it a lot back then. It's really a great ship. But i think, it's way to big and too much of a fighting ship...i don't really know, it has something about it, that i cannot really cope with. Hm...

- Panther is definitely too big and too much of a specialised "warship". I don't really know, it's not exactly the kind of ship i'd consider an opportunist and somewhat humble cargo captain living on

-Guppy (or Ariadne) look really cool, but i fear they are just too weak. For the looks i'd probably go with the ariadne, although stat wise, i like the guppy better Still a TP docking slot...oh my. But they somewhat feel like a flying parking lot. TP and lot's of fighter docking IS extremly awesome, but look on the sole ships and not much to be proud of is left...

- Springblossom IS an awesome ship (no discussion) but not what i'm looking for her. I think, the springblossom feels more like an M3+++ and not like the boat i have in mind.

So at the end, it all comes back to the hyperion again. (As it always does in playership threads, doesn't it? ) After all, she IS the best overall playership in X3 (at least after my >200 h experiences) and just an awesome ship. Still, i feel like the Griffon might be just the ship for my intention on playing this run...something about it just feels right.

But i'd probably try the HCP as well, if it wasn't for it's tiny cargo bay :/

And yeah, i just realized i'm kind of a hyppocrite here: I'd LOVE to have docking ports (also for a TP but only Ariadne/Guppy would give me that), but i'm not looking to fight with a "carrier" kind of ship. So just a few resupply and scout ships it would be. This makes the hyperion even more viable of course. Or the Griffon maybe....

[Jimmy C]

If you think of the Hyperion as "Serenity-like" then the Springblossom is like the Millennium Falcon.

[Space Traveller]

If you think of the Hyperion as "Serenity-like" then the Springblossom is like the Millennium Falcon.

Ha, good one! And surprisingly accurate! I actually considered the Vidar for my run, but this one appeared to be too small! (But overtune it, and you got yourself your Falcon )

Hyperion (as always ) probably comes out as the best all-around deal: Can dock everywhere, is strong enough even against some M2 if absolutely necessary AND has two docking ports. (Which, for the looks, are even external ones )

If the griffon could only dock a TP...oh my, this would be it. But I think the X3 designers did a pretty good job in deliberately not making "the one ship that outmatches all" - so people WILL use different ships from time to time.

But I feel like the Griffon is gonna be it. Not too paperish, some hangar space (Eclipse fighters will do as shuttles I guess. A TP would be cooler of course) and just about the right size. Or maybe, i'll just be crazy and get that Ariadne and see how far it will take me. Why exactly isn't there an OTAS M7C with plenty cargo spaces, decent shields and two TP docking spaces?

[hisazul]

Taken out entire xenon sectors with nothing but a single Hyperion. So no it is not weak by any means. Fully capable of using booster feeding of weapons and shooting all ISR at the same time. Add huge cargo capacity for missiles/drones and it's unmatched by anything. Wraith usage is a massive silly point.


Unless you used Achinonix before... and know what kind of hell you are getting yourself into. No... just no. That thing has lower pitching speed then some destroyers. It is so terrible at turning that AI cannot kill m3 and down ships at ALL. Watched it struggle to hit L for an hour... then it died without putting a dent into Ls hull. W/o massive rudder tunnings it's one of the least effective solo ships out there.


Agamemnon solo can work. With support or friendlies of any kind not so much. PSG is why it can shine solo but it will also rip apart anything in vicinity friend or foe. Can be hard to get used to due to laggy nature of PSG and energy cost but it is a hard hitting weapon in its class like PBG. Due to PSG you are also pretty much immune to missiles and fighters since they just instantly blow up upon entering your PSG cloud.

You may want to think about looking into some TL ships that fit your firefly inspiration. You could simply fight with mk1 fighter drones. They are pretty nasty when used in bulk. Easy and cheap to replace... fast enough to avoid most shots at them. But it's not really firefly inspirational... imo.

Consider Aegir as well. It's a spacious M7 with high speed and very good agility for a cap. Sadly it only uses mid range terran weapons so its Startburst all over. BUT... it can use wraiths.... soooooo while your starburst will shred any fighters you could simply pop some wraiths and watch any cap ship go up in flames. No need for weapons. Since it is terran ship... it also comes with 5g shielding so more then most CW destroyers while 3 times faster and a lot smaller.

Not sure how you feel about using pseudo destroyer but Pteranodon is fast... for a destroyer. It uses PALC so massive damage(as long as you don't shoot PALC yourself then it does less damage then IRE just use PPC in main guns). It is capable of melting most ships in seconds if you fire PPC ahead of time. Both sides are capable of shooting in front of you so your PALC hell can be toggled to have attack my target as first priority followed by what ever to give you ability to chew though anything short of terran ship in seconds. It can also dock a large number of fighters. But I think its a bit large and wrong looking for what you want.

[MarvinTheMartian]

I think you knew they answer before you hit the "new topic" button so yeah, I'm in love with my Hyperion.

However, when it comes to role play elements you can make it interesting. IIRC Serenity wasn't a huge ship, so not really much bigger than an M6 and I don't know that it docked anything anyway...

if you can cope with the speed of an M7 and inability to dock at any station then you might consider:
- the Agamemnon for looks, shields and fire-power with a whopping stock speed of 108 (its sister ship, the Deimos, can dock fighters but you lose the cockpit weapons and those fighters will be shredded in seconds with your own PSG)
- if you want more speed, 132m/s then, for the loss of 2GJ shields and 625XL cargo, you could get the Astraeus with docking for 10 ships but you do also lose the IBLs from the Aggy
- but, for a mere 11m/s less you could get your hands on a Tiger/Panther (Panther can dock fighters but you lose the cockpit weapons) with IBL up front and if you've been paying attention and picked up some PALC along the way you can pop a couple of those in each side

Of course, if you want an I Win button then you can't overlook a missile boat, Ares for shields or Cobra for speed

The idea of a TL is interesting but my experience is that no matter how good they look on paper they don't last long in any form of combat, not in my hands anyway.

Have to comment on Wraiths though, I went through all sorts of hoops to get hold of these for my Hyperion in TC only to realise they go 1m/s faster than the ship! So in AP with just 1 Pandora tuning your Hyperion will reach the target before your missiles do! Yes they're 8x125k damage but they are the slowest missile of all and with the improved missile defences in AP that 1M damage of swarm missiles is almost useless

[Space Traveller]

@MarvinTheMartian:
Actually the Serenity from Firefly really has two docking ports, which were external. Left and right each for two shuttles (which is actually scary close to the hyperion )

The Agamemnon is a fantastic ship as an "explorer and campaign playership", but i cannot really cope with the cockpit view. Also zero docking points are somewhat frustrating on this otherwise beautiful M7. Same goes for the tiger, but it's just too much of a straight-forward warship. Nothing i'd consider an Malcolm Reynolds like character and his crew living on.

Any M7m and enough effort for a missile complex are just totally off the charts when it comes to balance - this is a known fact for any X3 player . Still, it's really boring to just press the "i win" button repeatedly.

But I think PALCs are somewhat broken on the playership and tend to miss 99% of the moving targets? (But work fine on AI controlled ships though) Please correct me there, if i'm wrong. If not, even a carrack with 4 PALCs *might* seem like a debatable idea.

[ancienthighway]

PALCs are broken when the player is pulling the trigger on them. Turret fire by the AI on the player ship works fine.

[hisazul]

PALCs are broken when the player is pulling the trigger on them. Turret fire by the AI on the player ship works fine.

Yep that is exactly how it works. Hence my side comment to Pteranodon loadout.

[astreus]

Depends if you like to travel slow - than a M7 with hanger full of various M3 to M5 is very fine. You have much 'at hand'. A M1 may have more of all (cargo, hangers,..) but too bulky.

But if speed is important (for me it is):

On the very start a Kestrel will do it, but it not good for dog fight use.

A hype from the Pois.Paranid start with (luckily) more speed than normal will be very fine.

If you have to deal with a standard Hype, a Springblossom may be better. 360ms is just superior for a M6. With Proto-Strab. Shockwave Can. very, very strong power to fight down even a Q. It substitues M3-5.

However, there is no all purpose ship, no way! But the Springy covers most of the allround needs, I believe.

[LTerSlash]

You can deal with most of the M7 in a Springblossom, the M7M will give you some work, and you can short work any other smaller ship.

But for starting ship i rather pick the Hyperion just for the cargo, i hate having to refuel all the time, and yes, the Wraith missiles can take out anything, its just slow.

And i always keep a Kestrel or Spitfyre for pickying up missions and dealing with that M5 here and there, and a Blastclaw Prototype for picking up a battlefield loot.

Both are good options, but personally, a M8 can take out any cap FAST and you can make a missile complex for the torpedos for less money than a Wraith complex will cost you, ill highly recomend you to go with the Springblossom and keep an M8 on stand-by to take any caps.

[Space Traveller]

Sorry for bringing this up again, but i have yet another (special) question:
Has anyone here played the "ATF Outpost" plot? And if so, can you tell me with as little spoilers as possible please what kind of a ship i'll need for it?

I'm pretty determined on the hyperion right now, but when I think about some plots like shady business....i really don't see myself doing that in an M6. But as i'm very exited about ATF Outpost as well, the ship requirement for that will definitely play a role.


Recently i've even considered the Boreas - a ship i've somehow always ignored when i played X3 before. Of course, i was talking about "m7" being to big earlier, but the Boreas is tiny for an M2. And the design somewhat even reminds me (partly!) of the firefly...the nose-like cockpit...the big engine.... and on top of that, i'd definitely have enough firepower for all missions. Now if only there were two docking ports..(damnit OTAS why did you never build an M1? )

[pref]

Im into the Panther. Easily and quickly kills any M1/M2 with IBL only, has a hangar, and if you put some tunings on it nothing can stop it.
Can equip PALC and FAA, has a small front profile, so hard to hit.
Having front turrets instead of main guns is also very useful while positioning in battles. For all your dogfighting needs there is the hangar.

Btw Outpost isnt TC only? You have all ATF ships in AP for sale anyway.

[Nanook]

You know, if you really wanted to go the 'Firefly-like' route, you could use a TM. The Zephyrus is a tough little ship and holds 4 fighters. I'd use the Chokaro, though, since it sacrifices one hangar slot for a lot more cargo space, and it's fast. The cargo space can hold enough missiles and/or fighter drones to take down almost any ship, and it also makes an excellent player trading ship. Cruising the universe with an M5 and an M3 in the hangars, with room for that occasional capture, makes it an almost ideal Serenity wanna-be.

[Space Traveller]

You know, if you really wanted to go the 'Firefly-like' route, you could use a TM. The Zephyrus is a tough little ship and holds 4 fighters. I'd use the Chokaro, though, since it sacrifices one hangar slot for a lot more cargo space, and it's fast. The cargo space can hold enough missiles and/or fighter drones to take down almost any ship, and it also makes an excellent player trading ship. Cruising the universe with an M5 and an M3 in the hangars, with room for that occasional capture, makes it an almost ideal Serenity wanna-be.

You know, i've considered that But they are just too weak for serious campaign playing - after all, a ship in X3 needs at least some firepower to be fun (for the plots).

According to this, the Serenity is around 63 metres long. So according to this thread, even a Magnetar would be twice as big. But in X, everything is huge anyway, and I feel like a Firefly would be the size of a small M7 or bigger M6. A TM feels too small to be honest

Unfortunately, i have some serious performance problems with my game right now, which makes it almost unplayable. So i didn't really progress since i've started this thread :/