2 Q's: CLS problem and placing lasertowers

[wolfee]

1. I took the time to write down all the locations that sell boarding pods, not counting Pirate Bases. I then took a fully ranked pilot, made his home the HUB and then set waypoints for purchasing boarding pods at each of the Military Outposts. Each waypoint was set to pay maximum price and to buy "up to 2" since that's all that's available for sale at any given time. After 3 waypoints, I have him reload energy cells at the closest complex, then proceed to the next 3 Military Outposts. The HUB has over 7mil in funds. I sent him off to run his route and he went to the first Military Outpost and bought 2 boarding pods and now he's just sitting there. "CLS on standby". What's going on here? He is rank 20, has Nav software, Fight1 and 2, Trade 1 and 2, CLS1 and 2, jumpdrive, energy cells. If the next Military Outpost has zero stock, it moves to the next waypoint right??

2. Is there a more accurate way of placing lasertowers? They seem to randomly fly out of the cargo bay in any direction. Do you have to tow them into place?

[Timsup2nothin]

You told him "buy up to 2" and he has 2, so he stopped buying. You needed to make that buy a "max cargo."

For future reference, the easier way to do that would be a "generate waypoints" with a range of like a hundred. It will create the buys at all available docks that stock them. Then you can insert the refuels and whatnot wherever you think they are needed.

[Bill Huntington]

I'll just talk about LTs. Save before you place them. If they scatter, you did it wrong. When you eject from your cargo bay, they show up about 1.2 km directly behind you. If they are too close to certain objects like Gates or Stations they scatter.

I figure out where I want them, then navigate carefully so my personal ship faces any Station or Gate, with the chosen point 1.2 km behind me. Simple to say, harder to do. I use fixed points like those to navigate, also other stations and gates. When I'm close, I use the strafe keys to get into position exactly. I'll check my altitude position by seeing how a gate lines up on the side of the screen. Occasionally I'll push the '.', and check the position numbers on the sector map. But you can't use the strafe keys when you're in the official map. SAVE BEFORE YOU EJECT, after all that. After you do it once, it gets a lot easier.

I like to place my LTs on the outside corner of a station, as close as I can without them scattering. I place them at the same level as the Station or Gate. Attackers almost always move close to 0 altitude and don't maneuver above or below the ecliptic. I've found that a block of 25 LTs is a respectable force, though I have gone with 100 or more within the Xenon sectors. I use the Hype when I can, or an Elephant when the numbers get bigger.

I take particular care to avoid placing LTs where they can attack blue pirates. If a red comes by, it gets attacked, then attacks and an LT before it's destroyed. Then all LTs will attack even blue pirates, and you're pirate rep goes to hell.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Regarding Boarding Pods:
I would suggest using CAG instead. Homebased to the hub and with average price this is all you need. If you want to stock more than the hub can store then have a parked ship at the hub scoop them up either manually or with CLS 2.
If you really want to debug your CLS2 waypoints then more info might be needed but start with looking at the supply conditions.

As for Lasertowers, I position these OOS, send a freighter (or anything else with XL cargo) and get them to drop them off at set intervals. If they're too close together the will move around when you enter sector but I've never had this happen unless they're literally right on top of each other.

[wolfee]

Thanks guys this helps a lot. I thought "up to 2" would be per waypoint since it is a separate waypoint/command. So just tell it to grab max cargo if I want the CLS to grab all from a specific waypoint. I think I need to go back and double-check my other CLSs

I like the HUB idea and using CAG too. Add a pod to the inventory and restrict the CAG to just purchase that resource. Makes sense, or would you just let him do his thing? I think right now I have 5 resources on the HUB.

As for the lasertowers, I kinda wanted to set them up tight to stations/asteroids to prevent other ships from slamming into them but I didn't know they eject 1.2 km behind the ship, that's something I can work with anyway.

[Jimmy C]

The CAG is a more flexible method for getting Pods. It's how I'm doing it in my current game. Advice, TMs can serve as CAGs! I feel they are most suitable for CAG duty on military cargo. I found out last game that M6s can't be CAGs.

Makes sense, or would you just let him do his thing? I think right now I have 5 resources on the HUB.

If you just let him do his thing, he'll bring credits to the HUB, which can be used for buying more pods. That'll save you from having to regularly top up its credits for buying pods. You won't have to worry about him selling your pods since he can't make a profit from selling them.

A more accurate way to place LTs is to have another ship do it while you're out of the sector. You can get 0.1 km accuracy that way. Just remember to have the placing ship move aside before you renter the sector.

[MarvinTheMartian]

With CLS2, each waypoint is it's own command and it parses each one to see if it matches the supply conditions.

So, if MO1 doesn't have any pods then it will look at MO2 and if it has it will fly there and buy those. It sounds like it's one (or both) of two things, your waypoint setup or supply conditions.

Are you expecting the freighter to keep them onboard and fly around until it gets full? You haven't mentioned any waypoints to unload the cargo, this is when the supply conditions can come into play but I wouldn't have expected it to be so soon.

Provide some more details on your CLS setup if you want some help figuring that out but yeah, CAG is far simpler and the ship can do more than one ware - you can exclude wares and blacklist sectors in CAG if you're concerned about buying from pirate stations.

[Bill Huntington]

There's a number of ways to most things in TC/AP. Whatever works.

Some points. OOS you don't have to worry about collisions. IS you do. But LTs get picked up if ship you own runs into them, unless they can't hold Large cargo, unless the cargo bay is full. Then there's a collision. But IS there is collision avoidance, so any AI or NP ship should go around them.

The 1.2 km distance is an estimate. Behind the ship is for sure. Where your ship's nose is pointed makes a difference. If it's pointed down, then the ejected LT will end up at a higher altitude. If it's pointed up, the LTs will have a lower altitude. If it's exactly even, then it's the same as the ship. You can get that by being at 0 zero altitude and pointing the nose at a Gate or Station at 0 altitude.

If you deploy LTs OOS, then you still have to check them to see if they scatter when you are IS. Or never go there again. I'd rather know immediately, so I can get it right.

I like LTs. I'd consider them the perfect weapon for many situations, but you can't set large numbers of them to avoid red pirates.

[ancienthighway]

[quote="wolfee"
I like the HUB idea and using CAG too. Add a pod to the inventory and restrict the CAG to just purchase that resource. Makes sense, or would you just let him do his thing? I think right now I have 5 resources on the HUB.
[/quote]

Is your HUB plot finished? If not, set the CAG up as a buyer to buy the wares you need along with the boarding pods.

If the plot is finished, you can set the HUB up as a trading station selling minerals, bio, and food. If you are building drones, this would be a good place to sell them too. Then set the CAG up as a buyer and seller (trader). Move your own excess wares to the Hub for resale.

[Allan F]

Or do it the simple way. Homebase a Disco to your EQ dock or hub. Add the BP to the inventory, with a price of average+1. Tell the Disco to buy for best price. Then homebase a TS to the hub/dock, and tell it to sell at best price. Each time, the disco unloads a BP at your station, the TS will snap it up, and store it. I have 300+ BPs stored that way. You just have to place your EQdock or hub so that it haves access to several Military outposts.

[Timsup2nothin]

Ermmmm...not to stop the party, but the CLS problem was solved in the second post.

On the advantages and disadvantages of CAGs for this task...

A CAG assigned as a general buyer for the hub may be busy buying other hub stuff and not collect as many pods as could be gathered otherwise, while a CAG with only pods whitelisted will probably collect them all. The drawback of a CAG over CLS for the task is that a CAG will go out and back to each dock while a CLS can be set up to loop around a few docks between returns to unload. Not a huge difference, but a difference in that it is a little faster and consumes less jump fuel. The CAG has the advantage that it will adapt if a dock is destroyed and rebuilt, where the CLS will drop that dock when it was destroyed and not pick it back up without intervention.

Another difference is that a CLS can be set up to unload the pods directly to the M7M and maintain it boarding ready rather than unloading to the hub. With a little set up effort a single "boarding tender" can maintain pods, hammers, flails, and jump fuel on the M7M at desired levels fully automatically.

[Jimmy C]

If you deploy LTs OOS, then you still have to check them to see if they scatter when you are IS.

That's never been a problem for me, perhaps I just lucked out in placing my LTs.
As a guide, the LT has a range of 5.85km, so I usually place them 4km from each other and what they're supposed to be guarding. Never had scatter.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Then set the CAG up as a buyer and seller (trader).

I get mixed results doing this at the hub, the trader will buy at or below the price you set and sell at the set price +1 or higher - I find that sometimes my traders are making long journeys for little profit that's less than the cost of the ecells to get there. It can be fixed using a very specific setup but my hub is more generic, use the hub to buy just about everything and another complex/dock to sell with CLS1 in between.

the CLS problem was solved in the second post

So, you're saying that if you have two waypoints:
1. buy up to 2 pods from MO1
2. buy up to 2 pods from MO2

it will stop after 1 if it is successful?

I thought CLS worked by looping through each waypoint to see if the command could be completed and if not go to the next waypoint.
e.g.
1. does MO1 have at least 1 pod*?

• if yes fly to MO1 and buy up to 2 then check waypoint 2
  if no, check waypoint 2

2. does MO2 have at least 1 pod*?

• if yes fly to MO2 and buy up to 2 then check waypoint 1
  if no, check waypoint 1

* this is where supply conditions are also checked

Just because it was able to buy 2 pods at the first waypoint doesn't mean it will not process the next waypoints., does it?

[Timsup2nothin]

Then set the CAG up as a buyer and seller (trader).

I get mixed results doing this at the hub, the trader will buy at or below the price you set and sell at the set price +1 or higher - I find that sometimes my traders are making long journeys for little profit that's less than the cost of the ecells to get there. It can be fixed using a very specific setup but my hub is more generic, use the hub to buy just about everything and another complex/dock to sell with CLS1 in between.

the CLS problem was solved in the second post

So, you're saying that if you have two waypoints:
1. buy up to 2 pods from MO1
2. buy up to 2 pods from MO2

it will stop after 1 if it is successful?

I thought CLS worked by looping through each waypoint to see if the command could be completed and if not go to the next waypoint.
e.g.
1. does MO1 have at least 1 pod*?

• if yes fly to MO1 and buy up to 2 then check waypoint 2
  if no, check waypoint 2

2. does MO2 have at least 1 pod*?

• if yes fly to MO2 and buy up to 2 then check waypoint 1
  if no, check waypoint 1

* this is where supply conditions are also checked

Just because it was able to buy 2 pods at the first waypoint doesn't mean it will not process the next waypoints., does it?

The "buy up to X" command processes against the ship's own cargo FIRST. If it already has X on board it skips immediately to checking the next waypoint. So by setting all the waypoints at "buy up to 2" it went to the first waypoint, got two, and sat there in a locked loop saying "yep, I've got two already" over and over.

To see the results you describe would require all the waypoints to have a "buy 2" order. Or any "buy" order with a more than 2.

I would probably use something like a "buy up to 200" or something like that with an "unload up to 10" at the M7M of choice. That way it would go around buying until it had 200 and the M7M had 10, then sit on standby processing around its list. Whenever I used some it would jump to the M7M, restock it, and then go top itself off and go back to standby.

Things to note:
The "buy up to" or "load up to" processes against the SHIP inventory. It will try to keep that many on board and if it has that many it will skip the waypoint.

The "sell up to" or "unload up to" processes against the STATION inventory. It will try to put that many in the station and if it already has that many it will skip that waypoint. So you can see commands like "unload e-cells up to 40000" on a Mercury that only carries 3000 at a time. It will keep dumping them into the complex until the complex has 40000.

[MarvinTheMartian]

Cheers Tim, I don't use the buy feature, or a load feature without a corresponding unload so have never come across this. Answered in post 2 indeed
So the answer is to increase the "buy up to" number but pay close attention to the supply conditions, maybe set the minimum on transfer to 0%

[Timsup2nothin]

Cheers Tim, I don't use the buy feature, or a load feature without a corresponding unload so have never come across this. Answered in post 2 indeed
So the answer is to increase the "buy up to" number but pay close attention to the supply conditions, maybe set the minimum on transfer to 0%

Right. I figured he already had a good "minimum on transfer" since it did go to the first waypoint.

You can do a lot of stuff with those "up to" commands. That "boarding op tender" that stocks "up to" however many flails, hammers, and pods and keeps my M7M "up to" ready status is a standard for me. "Fuel trucks" that unload up to appropriate amounts of jump fuel into fighters set to protect freighters with jump drives that would normally leave their escorts behind are another favorite.

[RainerPrem]

Hi,

1. I took the time to write down all the locations that sell boarding pods, not counting Pirate Bases. I then took a fully ranked pilot, made his home the HUB and then set waypoints for purchasing boarding pods at each of the Military Outposts.

...

A much simpler approach involves a single TP with Teladi Best Buy software installed. Send it out to buy boarding pods. Then on arrival check for Marines, Flails and hammers as well. This way until you have a hundred or so pods, you'll most likely also have everything else your M7M needs.

Normally you don't have to refuel because most outposts have enough energy cells.

cu
Rainer

[wolfee]

The HUB plot isn't done yet, I have ~20k microchips left ... ponderous!! This plot has actually made me take a break from playing X3 and if I set the game to run in the background, I come back to destroyed Complexes with 15-20+ factories staring me in the face. I'm kinda at the point of "this is getting boring".

Anyway, great tips! I hadn't added an "unload" waypoint which is a huge mistake because I'm sure once it gets loaded up, it will surely get attacked and I'll get the delayed message that "your ship is under attack...nevermind it was destroyed"

[pref]

It's so rewarding when you find out what happened to those chips in the AP HUB plot

Had a 100+ chip plex plus CLS buying up all npc products, still it took ages. Wonder how it could have worked out at release, with higher requirements and no bonus pack..

[TheDeliveryMan]

Cheers Tim, I don't use the buy feature, or a load feature without a corresponding unload so have never come across this. Answered in post 2 indeed
So the answer is to increase the "buy up to" number but pay close attention to the supply conditions, maybe set the minimum on transfer to 0%

Right. I figured he already had a good "minimum on transfer" since it did go to the first waypoint.

Well, his ship even would have gone to the first waypoint and fetch 2 boarding pods if the "minimum transfer amount on collection" was set to 100%. I think in the case of a "load/buy up to X" command the minimum transfer percentage is computed relative to the amount X.