Trading in TC

Clueless=Pilot · Post by **Clueless=Pilot** » Sat, 5. Dec 15, 23:19

so... after trying to REPAIR the Advanced Eclipse once i found it... it attacked me (but its pilotless?)

Anyway i died!

So i started as the merchant again and read a very SHORT guide, by someone who toldd me to sell my secondary ships shield, to get enough rep to buy an IRE and Trading extension... which i did...

I then sold the secondary ship... got lots of creds

Travveled around argon prime to see what to buy/sell... baught a load of Meat cahoonas... etc... flew about the verse to try and sell them.. what happened? *not sold here... not sold here... not sold here|* (but can buy them) this has taken 3 hours sofar!!!!

Question: IS there any tech/way to tell me what i can SELL to a certain station? i don't want to fly for another &^%$ 3 hours just to find *not sold here!!!!*

What to do?

Gold Dragon · Post by **Gold Dragon** » Sat, 5. Dec 15, 23:43

Did you claim the Adv Eclipse before repairing it? IIRC, the Repair laser is still considered Hostile except to player-owned properties...

Clueless=Pilot · Post by **Clueless=Pilot** » Sat, 5. Dec 15, 23:48

No and i realised that mistake, but what i really want to know... is how to ge this trade empire off the ground? its got to be better tha *fill cargo with X.... go to Sytem Y and hope to god dock Z wants to buy X*???

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sun, 6. Dec 15, 00:02

It is. Lots better.

So, it sounds like you might need to have just the mechanics of the transaction explained. I'm a good candidate for this, because when I started my first X game long long ago I didn't get it myself.

I would land at a cahoona bakery with a load of cahoonas, thinking that a place that sells cahoonas and is totally out of stock would absolutely have to buy some. I mean, what do they do if a customer comes along? So I heard "products are not bought" over and over and over. Finally I grasped that these bakeries are for manufacturing and they do not care if their customers are disappointed. They ONLY buy resources.

And they only sell products. Yes, I heard the "resources are not sold" message untold numbers of times also. Why are they so attached to this monstrous load of e-cells if they don't have any ore and can't make anything anyway? Especially when that factory right over there is stuffed with ore and has no e-cells? I could do them both a solid if I just bought half from each and took it to the other one.

Anyway, at the end of the day factories buy resources, sell products, and don't do anything else.

--------------------------------------------------------

As to things that help in this process...you can get best selling prices software and best buys software. One will show you the best available price in the sector for anything that you can buy, with average price displayed for reference. The other will show you the best price anyone in the sector is willing to pay for each ware that you have in your hold. It's easier than checking info station by station.

Clueless=Pilot · Post by **Clueless=Pilot** » Sun, 6. Dec 15, 00:08

Wow tim... that is EXACTLY what i wanted to know

Logical when you think about it tbh... i mean OFCOURSE a C-bake will not buy MC's... what was i thinking???

so... by the sounds of it, most of/if not all this game revolves around is... tech/software... if you have it... you can do it... if you don't... give up now! or buy the bloomin package?

When said like that... this game now looks easier than Eve-Online...

But i am so wrong aren't I?

thx guys... any other trading tips not already explained, things i don't already know???

thanks

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Sun, 6. Dec 15, 01:48

Well, I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one!

Now for a somewhat more complicated answer.

If you map out an entire region...since you started there by Argon Prime we will use that one...you can learn some stuff by counting. An L size factory is five in one, and an M size factory is two in one. So all of the Argon missile factories, tech factories, laser factories, whatever, use cahoonas, and you can count how many there are by looking at your maps. Then you can count the cahoona bakeries (remember, M = 2x, L = 5x) and see how many of those there are. Now, if there are a LOT more cahoona bakeries than there are cahoona users, you might be taking a chance when you buy cahoonas that you will not find a buyer for them.

Of course, your mileage may vary. If the factories are sucking up all the energy and the cahoona bakeries haven't had any for a while so they haven't been producing you can get a temporary shortage. The economy is very dynamic in that regard.

Clueless=Pilot · Post by **Clueless=Pilot** » Mon, 7. Dec 15, 00:59

UPDATE:

Ok, so i have flown around the verse as H-M again

earned 19 mill selling some abandoned ships (couldn't get them all yet, as the rest a through pirate/xenon space and i keep dying)

QUESTION:

What to do with my 19 mill?

RANKINGS:

ARGON: Confirmed freind
BORON: Trusted Courtier
SPLIT: Shameless Creature
PARANID: Friend
TELADI: Profit Oppertunity
GONER: Believer

*************************************************************
Bare in mind i obviously can not buy certain things/sell at certain stations due to my rankings
*************************************************************

Please make your advice as noob friendly as possible

Thanks again

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 7. Dec 15, 02:23

This would be why I don't recommend the "gather abandoned ships to get a good bankroll" approach to beginners. You wind up with more cash than you actually know what to do with.

There are lots of good investments that you can make with 19 million, but you haven't built up your personal infrastructure or skills to make those investments. Businesses take skilled pilots, and you haven't developed a pool of pilots. Making suggestions about things you can do almost always winds up looking like a foreign language lesson, because the person offering advice doesn't even recognize that they are making certain assumptions about you knowing things that you might not know...things you normally would have learned in the course of getting the 19 million in the first place.

Making a good choice of what business to invest in requires examination of the economy in your game. There are generalities, but the economy develops differently depending in part on what you do, and also on random factors like where the Kha'ak invade and wipe out sectors. Gathering the abandoned ships takes long enough for your game to have diverged in some direction, and the only person in a position to identify a good investment in your universe is you...but you haven't been trading and poking around in the economy so you lack information.

All that said, I will now shamelessly plug the CLS guide in my sig, as it will give you lots of ideas for businesses you may be able to set up, and links to threads with others. I also have a thread that is either a comprehensive guide in the making, or just a rambling narrative on one way to move through the game, depending on who you ask. It's currently living on the first page of threads since I am actively updating it.

Clueless=Pilot · Post by **Clueless=Pilot** » Mon, 7. Dec 15, 02:37

Ok, i will rephrase it...

I basically only want to know:

. how on earth to *set-up* my trading...

.how to build stations and what ship i need to actually BUY one from Argon Prime as i am like enough and have enough credits (your ship is too small to carry all you need)???? i thought i was bying the station AT the location?

. what haulers are best to use (as argon): Small Mercury (non-tanker class?), i already have one non-tanker merc (the one you start with) and one M-Tanker Merc (oh, and my disco i was finding all the ships with)

. DO i need a fleet of protectors? and what ships are best for this/where to get them? and also what software to use on them (my main merc + disco have every trading/nav upgrade they can currently buy (no MKIIIs found yet) and i also have a few best buy/sell software (think on all ships tbh)

. How to effectivly run my trading on auto-pilot while i am out exploring or fighting?

(i know AP ships are likely to get shot down/don't survive indefinate... so how to mimimize loss?)

And i only searched for the ships, because one of my friends said *well, that's what I did to start with... then igot this trading thing off the ground...* ME: *what did you do next?* Him: *dude, it was years ago! all i remember is i capped my credits at least 10 times before it got boring*

I know i have ruined the game (essentially) again... because as you say... i don't know anything about the mechanics

I am actually wondering IF this game is for me.... I mean if i go with any of the *EASY* military starts, i will get bored once the story is over ...

With trading... it sound like you need a MENZA IQ + Albert Einstien + Gallilao ++++ mall the smart asses in the history of the univers to do anything good with this game :'(

And don't say *things take time*... I am an eve online vet with trading BPC/BPOS... POS... PI etc etc... THAT is childs play in comparrison

EDIT: didn't mean that last part to sound that harsh... it just annoys me... i have had this series for years... played it at least 5 times (years ago) before giving up... and the dredded cycle looks all set to begin again...

I used to think Ellite: Dangerous was impossible until i remembered THIS game lol

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Mon, 7. Dec 15, 07:05

Okay, so direct answers to direct questions.

how to build stations and what ship i need to actually BUY one from Argon Prime as i am like enough and have enough credits (your ship is too small to carry all you need)???? i thought i was bying the station AT the location?

No, you buy the station from the shipyard. It must be loaded aboard a station transport (TL class). The only one I think you could afford to buy is the Split Elephant, and I don't think you have the rep with the Split. But you can rent one. Look around Argon Prime for an Argon Supply Mammoth, comm them and talk to the captain. Play around with that a bit and you should be able to get him to the shipyard, at which time you can buy a station and get it delivered. If you need additional details, come back.

what haulers are best to use (as argon): Small Mercury (non-tanker class?), i already have one non-tanker merc (the one you start with) and one M-Tanker Merc (oh, and my disco i was finding all the ships with)

There's no solid answer to this, because it depends on what you are hauling, how reliable the demand is, etc. Rule of thumb, bigger is slower. If you get there with a bigger load you make a bigger sale, but if someone beats you to the deal you got nothing for the time the ship spent making the trip. Mercury (speed 100, capacity 3000) is no different from Mercury Tanker (same). Haulers, Super Freighters, and Tanker XLs (maybe?) are all in the 5500 to 6000 size range, and have top speed around 80. Super freighter XL is 8500 or something capacity and has a top speed of maybe 60.

I use mostly the smaller and faster of whatever type comes to hand, unless I'm hauling stuff that just demands a bigger payload. I suggest, since you are in Argon Prime, that you just buy a couple Mercuries.

Thing to know, the S, M, and L designation at the shipyard have nothing to do with the ship itself. They are equipment levels. An S is bare bones, as in for a Mercury it comes with a single 1MJ shield. The M model comes with three 5MJ shields. The L model is fully loaded with the maximum, three 25MJ shields. Which one you need again depends on your game. If I play an Argon start I take their war with the Paranids personally, so I am compelled to shield everything as if any passing Paranid might open fire just for spite...because, frankly, I do that to them. Many people play the "friend to all" style and may not feel like shielding is an issue. YMMV.

DO i need a fleet of protectors? and what ships are best for this/where to get them? and also what software to use on them (my main merc + disco have every trading/nav upgrade they can currently buy (no MKIIIs found yet) and i also have a few best buy/sell software (think on all ships tbh)

This, like shielding on freighters, is going to be decided by how you play the game. I need all kinds of defenses, because I ALWAYS make enemies. You are early on, building defenses is a field that includes VOLUMES of information, and you certainly don't need it yet. Focus on figuring out how to build and operate basic stuff first.

Another point. While 19 million seems like a lot of credits, and I can set up a business for about twelve million that will return several million per game day, trying to build significant automated defenses will burn through 19 million before you even get started.

How to effectivly run my trading on auto-pilot while i am out exploring or fighting?

Before someone says "buy a fleet of Mk3 freighters" I will tell you that I will never endorse that idea. I build networks of CLS freighters myself. I would be happy to explain how, had I not already written volumes on the subject. Consult the guide in my sig, as there is no better or shorter explanation I could give you.

I know i have ruined the game (essentially) again... because as you say... i don't know anything about the mechanics

Naaaahhhh. It's never too late to learn. Some of those ships you may have sold are unique though, and someday you may wish you could get them back. If I were you I would save where you are and practice with using your 19 million to build a variety of different businesses, playing each one for about a game day. Then you will know LOTS of stuff and can start a fresh game with some pretty good idea of what you want to do.

With trading... it sound like you need a MENZA IQ + Albert Einstien + Gallilao ++++ mall the smart asses in the history of the univers to do anything good with this game :'(

I'm the guy who started out wondering why the empty bakery wouldn't buy cahoonas, remember? I can do it, and a few people around here say I've been pretty clever about it. You certainly can too. It does take patience though, because there are a LOT of options that can be fitted together in a WHOLE LOT of ways. Despite the fact that this game has been around for years, it is still possible that you may be the next guy to find a new way to put things together that revolutionizes the game for some of us old hands.

Irrehaare · Post by **Irrehaare** » Mon, 7. Dec 15, 10:37

I think you need this:

Economy
and this:
Universe Traders

Keep in mind, these a just clues, there always is a better way.

Clueless=Pilot · Post by **Clueless=Pilot** » Mon, 7. Dec 15, 13:28

ThAanks to both of you Tim: you are amazing! i am reading your guide as we speak

ancienthighway · Post by **ancienthighway** » Mon, 7. Dec 15, 21:21

If you are looking for a combat intensive space genre game, this may indeed not the be game for you. It's much more of an economic simulation with as much combat tossed in as you want. Or it's a basic combat simulation with a little economy play tossed in. Yes it can be both.

I don't think you "ruined" your game in collecting all the abandoned ships you could. It's a shame you sold a number of them without giving them a try, there's more than a couple of gems in there.

With 19 mil credits, you have a choice. Work on your Split or Yaki rep to buy a bare bones TL (Elephant or Ryu). You won't have any money then, in fact you'd have to dig deeper into the pockets just to get them.

The second part of that choice is to rent a TL and buy stations. With the cash you have, you would have a good start at some of the techniques Tim offers up in his various posts. Take a close look at one of his more recent endeavors in combining the use of CLS2 and CAG.

For ships to support your operations, stick with ships having a speed of around 100 m/s or greater. These tend to be the basic model (tanker is just fine), the Argon Mercury, the Split Caiman, and the Paranid Demeter. You could include the OTAS Mistral in that group, but with a cost of around twice as much, it's not really worth it for me. Don't let all the gun mounts fool you. The weapons generator can't support those guns firing in a combat situation.

These fast TSs will be the ones buying and selling from the NPC stations. Since the AI rarely upgrades NPC transports, you will get to the trade faster than the NPC. The one exception to the small fast TS is the ships I have dealing with minerals. A Mercury Hauler, at 80 m/s, will carry close to the full requirements ore of NPC stations. Any ship with around 8000 hold space would do.

The Mercury Hauler is my go to ship to move goods from one of my complexes to another. Speed isn't as important for that, but not so unimportant I'd use a Vulture or Dolphin.

In my current game, I ran my transports without shields for the longest time. I think I lost one to hostile action in over 72 hours of game time. Pirates attacked my complexes twice, but with nothing an heavy fighter (M3) couldn't handle. If you declare a race an enemy from the start, you may need additional protection.

As far as losses to your transports, it's going to happen. One of them will decide to take the short route home that happens to go through Xenon space. It's dead by the time you get notified. Or one of your transports will get caught by a Q in the Xenon migration route around OmLy. Dead before you are notified. Occasionally you'll run into a big pirate ship, but for the most part they will be found in small fighter groups. This are survivable with shields, a jump drive, drones, and a pilot capable of using the jump drive and deploying the drones.

For minimizing losses, my transports have just enough equipment to be a CLS1, CLS2, or CAG transport. That means just speed and rudder upgrades. No cargo upgrade. Again, no cargo upgrade. That upgrade can easily double or triple the cost of the ship. The appropriate trading/commodity packages. Usually only one of the bunch is needed. And Navigation software. When the pilot can use the jump drive or drones, he will make his way to a station to buy them on his own.

Honved · Post by **Honved** » Tue, 8. Dec 15, 22:40

Minor clarification: cargo upgrades start out dirt cheap, and get more expensive the more you buy. The first couple of points are almost free, and it PAYS to get them. After that, it starts getting cheaper to buy another ship instead. I usually (eventually) upgrade a freighter by 50-100 cargo slots, and other ships depending on how much capacity I need for their mission. More than that is a waste.

Engine tunings are a bargain for what they give you: more trade runs in the same amount of time = more income.

Note that the Trade missions are frequently impossible without a lot of exotic equipment.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Trading in TC

Trading in TC