Capital ships vs M7Ms

[fireanddream]

The title itself sounds like a horrible idea already. Funny the CW banned the unethical use of SQUASH mine only to shower their enemies with flail and hammer torpedo. I found it really bizzare and not fun that one single M7M makes the area around it a dead zone for capital ships, especially now missiles can't even be one shot.

Anyway I found three skirnir roaming in the hub and thought it'd be a good chance for some missile defense tests. MDM was enabled in every case.

Starting from the cliché, FAA up&down facing upcoming missiles. Result: horrible, FAA with its 55 shots/min firing rate cannot defend a capital ship, to the point even a single ghoul missile can get through. In some cases 4 FAA can't even one shot some missiles. Increase the number of turrets didn't help as they all focus on one target. 8 FAA upside Xenon I got completely demolished.

CFA:
Not much better. CFA alone works just like FAA since their explosive clouds happened ~1km further down the shooting path. Knowing that, I mixed CFA with weapons that had longer ranges. In the case of the Xenon I I had 7 CFA + 1 ISR upside. Although it looked like the explosive clouds appeared right next to incoming missiles, either the damage was not high enough or CFA explosive clouds were completely useless, the result was not much better. I didn't try to mix with CIG, which has a ~0.1km longer range, I suspect the slower turning rate would make it worse.

PSG:
Now we're talking. Aggy/Deimos and Odysseus are the only beneficiaries here since M1 with PSG is a horrible idea. PSG on its own failed a lotprobably because of its 1.44km firing range and AI turrets turning to track targets AFTER they entered the firing range. PSG mixed with FAA or HEPT improved the situation, but still left the Odysseus at 30-40% shield after one volley of shadow. I was forced to mix PSG with EBC in the end, and finally missile immunity was achieved from the up/down/rear/front sides. However, in real battle mixing PSG with a weapon that has >2.5km range wastes a lot of energy.

ISR:
8/6 ISR alone on the I achieved a moderate result, on one hand they fired rapidly and shot down quite a few, a little better than sole FAA or CFA; on the other hand they failed completely as an anti-fighter weapon as I just watched three thors dancing around the I for 5 min.

Capital level weapons:
I set my capital weapon turrets to do missile defense if there were no enemy available. They were not reliable; the large projectile size helped, but not by a lot.

Missile launch tubes:
Only the I was able to have this. Three tubes set to missile only alongside any anti-fighter weapons overcame the shadow shower, but of course could do nothing against the ghoul.

MDM.c
Not sure if I did something wrong, but an M7M with two front turrets set to missile only and running MDM.c didn't defend my other capital ships as well as I'd like it to. Might be my mistake.

Didn't test:
HEPT, EBC, PRG, PAC and stuff. None of them should be better than ISR anyway.
PBE and ionD. I don't believe they can shoot down any missiles. Stupid missile hull strength.
CIG and IPG. Would only make things worse.
PALC. I imagine they would be very effective. Unfortunately I couldn't find any.

So, it's not looking good. Terran capitals are hopeless against missile swarms, SSC with its 37 shots/min, nope. CW capitals like Boreas with their 4 up/down turrets are very vulnerable, too. In the future I'll probably snipe an M7M with my own M7M, hey, you cheat, I cheat.

[Timsup2nothin]

Offense is the best defense. Launch a swarm of drones at it before you get in range.

[Bill Huntington]

You're talking about an idealized battle between types. Is there something you're trying to accomplish?

In TC one of my favorite things was a Xenon sector invasion of Core 023, with me in a Tyr with a Skirnir sidekick. I'd kill 15 to 20 Xenon Capitals and a lot of Q and smaller, then jump out for a minute, then jump back and repeat, as many times as I wanted. I'll try it in AP sometime.

My point is the M2 is still the king of battle. A Cobra and a Skirnir can level a sector but they can't hang by themselves in that kind of battle. And every type has its role, its strengths, its weaknesses.

[hisazul]

PALC shot by player won't kill anything. Pitiful damage to the point of absurdity. PALC shot by ai shoots very rapidly and causes massive lag(because it generates hundreds of projectiles all of which are LONG beams) which causes AI aim to sort of...start lagging behind(depends on if your looking at it or not) which in turn results into "beam" weapons that can have trouble hitting things. Applies to all 2nd generation "beam" weapons... aka laser tower weapons specific to each race.

Now Kyons... they shred missiles and actually work as one would expect beam weapons to work.

And if you going to mix... for gods sake don't mix ammo based weapons with non-ammo based weapons. The only thing it could even be mixed with and remain useful on stationary ships would be ISR.

Mixing... is only useful for ships that blindly charge towards enemy, which is an abysmal idea for a ship loaded with PSG or ships ment to not move and provide missile blocking. If you move away or strafe to the sides turret range and time it takes for PSG to expand become increasingly less of an issue.

[Triaxx2]

PSG mixed with PAC, means the turrets fire from further out, without burning a lot of excess energy. You're trying to make a wall, not shoot down individual missiles.

CFA with IonD. I think the ratio is one CFA and seven IonD. The IonD chains off the CFA, both hitting multiple times and vastly extending the reach.

Don't have AP, though so I'm not sure how effective they are.

[hisazul]

PSG mixed with PAC, means the turrets fire from further out, without burning a lot of excess energy. You're trying to make a wall, not shoot down individual missiles.

CFA with IonD. I think the ratio is one CFA and seven IonD. The IonD chains off the CFA, both hitting multiple times and vastly extending the reach.

Don't have AP, though so I'm not sure how effective they are.

PSG actual range exceeds PAC by A LOT(they are pretty close statistically), problem is generally range more so then energy also it takes time for PSG to expand hence the need for even more range. If mixing it with anything you want something at 2.5km at the bare minimum... EMC got good range but it's ammo based and will turn into useless weapon slot fast. Also Agamemnon can't mount PAC anywhere but its ass... so... yeah... and capitals due to turret placement counting range from center core instead of turret are EVEN MORE touchy about range... Valhallas starbursts can be right next to things and yet not be in range. Erm I don't think Ody can mount pacs on broadside or front either... and those two are the PSG ships rest don't have mounts for it anywhere that matters and they are TL/M7C and such and simply don't mount more then 2 turrets when they can. Zeph being a carrier should never use PSG unless you never plan to use it as a carrier. OP mentioned that already.

[Triaxx2]

ISR seems to be the answer on the Ody. It mounts in all the same slots as the PSG, and has double the range. No ammo either. Same is true for the Aggy, though you have to use CIG in the rear mount for no readily explicable reason. Curiously the same with the Deimos.

Terran ships are for show. They show up, get blown up and the real combat ships get down to business.

[hisazul]

Terran ships for show? Eh?

OOS terrans are kings so we can leave that out. IS terrans just lack mid range... since they don't really have anything in terms of weapons for mid range... MAML be damned.

But caps are fine... I mean AI Tyr can wreck anything that isn't a missile boat 1v1. Put a player behind it and 3 shots later everyone goes down. But IS is all about preferences so meh.