Looking for missile nerf mods

[fireanddream]

My war experience in AP so far:
Oh crap a rapid response claymore just showed up, time to jump everybody away.
Oh crap a military claymore just passed through the gate, time to jump everybody away.
Oh crap an escort claymore just showed up, time to retreat everybody within 30km radius.
Let me see... Three osaka and seven kyoto and five valhalla... Nah we're fine we have a gladiator.
It's almost funny to jump your I, boreas, ray, tyr, odin with fighters, shuri with fighters, all way while watching your odysseus with F3 nervously after ONE bomber shows up.

M7Ms are fine as they are rare. M8s on the other hand are not. The outcome of IS combat is completely decided by which side has more M8, as one has the fire power equivalent to two M2 or more. On the other hand, its fire power seems neither appropriate nor intended. A regular gladiator + tomahawks costs no more than 8m so it shouldn't be able to kill more than three M6 with a cargo full of missiles, so I'm looking to reduce the damage of phantom/tomahawk by a factor of 10 to 20.

With repeated testings I found MDM unable to cope with phantom, at all. On several occasions two phantom missiles killed me in my M6, upon close inspection mosquitoes were seen just circling around them. I had to manually fire 20 or so mosquitoes and maneuvered my ship for the phantoms to collide with mosquito, instead of the other way around.

For now I wrote a script that kills every single M8 in the universe.
But for general gameplay in the future I'm looking for scrpts/mods that nerf M8 and missiles.

As for MARS, yes I know MARS is a very good mod. But speaking of turrets, I already accept the fact that they are slow and stupid, adapt to their stupidity and play the whole game with it in mind. Besides, I doubt MARS would change of outcome of my PBE mounted PX vs two phantom missiles.

Update:
So I reduced the damages of tomahawk/phantom to 1/10 of their original values.
Any stat tweaks on mosquito didn't work. That includes a speed change from 500 to 2000m/s, acceleration too, turning rate from 100 to 600 RPM; nothing worked. I think it had something to do with the missile model and targeting algorithm. Using other missile models improved MDM efficiency, in the end I had to use the cyclone model for a reasonable success rate.
Really, it was such a hair puller to watch mosquitoes dancing around in a rain of wraith.

Another issue, phantom/tomahawk explosion brought down nearby mosquitoes but not other phantom/tomahawk... Sigh, seriously...

[dizzy]

Litcube's Universe adds an effective (and balanced) anti-missile mechanism through its Chaff missiles and the modified Missile Defence Only turret command for missile turrets. Chaff will target and take out incoming missiles very effectively, not circling around them.

[JSDD]

With repeated testings I found MDM unable to cope with phantom, at all. On several occasions two phantom missiles killed me in my M6, upon close inspection mosquitoes were seen just circling around them. I had to manually fire 20 or so mosquitoes and maneuvered my ship for the phantoms to collide with mosquito, instead of the other way around.

For now I wrote a script that kills every single M8 in the universe.
But for general gameplay in the future I'm looking for scrpts/mods that nerf M8 and missiles.

As for MARS, yes I know MARS is a very good mod. But speaking of turrets, I already accept the fact that they are slow and stupid, adapt to their stupidity and play the whole game with it in mind. Besides, I doubt MARS would change of outcome of my PBE mounted PX vs two phantom missiles.

... regarding MDM:
i know that problem, i think a little bit modding could solve that problem, scripts instead cant do anything about it because scripts dont control flight mechanics of missiles
when you open the "TMissiles" file with the x3Editor2 (TFileEditor, not debugger) which is in the addon\types folder, you can change the missile details like speed, lifetime etc
you can also change some "Missile Flags" by checking the checkboxes beneath the list
try checking the flag "Proximity fuse", i think that should help a bit
by the way: the flag "No Lock required" is the one that allows the missile to find targets on its own (like tempest missile)
another possibility: somehow increasing the blast radius (which is measured in "game units": 500 game unit = 1 meter)
another possibility: increasing the collision box of the missiles model simply by changing the model to silkworm or some bigger model type
another possibility: DEcreasing the rotation X/Y values, maybe they are a little to "fast" (in angular rotation)

... regarding MARS + PBE + enemy M8:
of course MARS can help out a little bit, but it also needs some "reaction time", if you only have PBE available / allowed then forget it
the range of PBE is simply too short, and turrets can only find targets in range, the inevidable reaction time makes it almost impossible to surely get rid of a swarm tomahawks

[fireanddream]

... regarding MDM:
i know that problem, i think a little bit modding could solve that problem, scripts instead cant do anything about it because scripts dont control flight mechanics of missiles
when you open the "TMissiles" file with the x3Editor2 (TFileEditor, not debugger) which is in the addon\types folder, you can change the missile details like speed, lifetime etc
you can also change some "Missile Flags" by checking the checkboxes beneath the list
try checking the flag "Proximity fuse", i think that should help a bit
by the way: the flag "No Lock required" is the one that allows the missile to find targets on its own (like tempest missile)
another possibility: somehow increasing the blast radius (which is measured in "game units": 500 game unit = 1 meter)
another possibility: increasing the collision box of the missiles model simply by changing the model to silkworm or some bigger model type
another possibility: DEcreasing the rotation X/Y values, maybe they are a little to "fast" (in angular rotation)

... regarding MARS + PBE + enemy M8:
of course MARS can help out a little bit, but it also needs some "reaction time", if you only have PBE available / allowed then forget it
the range of PBE is simply too short, and turrets can only find targets in range, the inevidable reaction time makes it almost impossible to surely get rid of a swarm tomahawks

Thx! I thought of changing the missile properties myself but, don't you need to start a new save after that? Can I modify missile hit point too? It's really funny sometimes 4 FAA can't even one shot a missile, A MISSILE for the love of god and all that's holy.

And I meant PBE physically can't destroy phantom missiles at all because of its low hull damage, regardless of having MARS or not.

Litcube's Universe adds an effective (and balanced) anti-missile mechanism through its Chaff missiles and the modified Missile Defence Only turret command for missile turrets. Chaff will target and take out incoming missiles very effectively, not circling around them.

Been watching Litcube's Universe for a while now, you guys did a really good job on that, especially MLCC. Do you guys allow others to modify your mod for their own personal use? I love all the rebalancing you did but may want to revert the ship/weapon stats back to vanilla. I'm not a hyperion/springblossom/tyr/boreas camper but it'd be depressing to buy an odysseus in Litcube's Universe and be like "wut, why is it PSG incompatible".

[Joubarbe]

Litcube's Univerese can be modded in any way. Otherwise, I doubt I would still be on this forum.

Revert ship stats would take some time, but it's not that hard. If you make an interesting mod, don't forget to share it

[fireanddream]

Litcube's Univerese can be modded in any way. Otherwise, I doubt I would still be on this forum.

Revert ship stats would take some time, but it's not that hard. If you make an interesting mod, don't forget to share it

Hey you seem to know LU well, could you bear some time to solve some of my paranoid concerns on LU gameplay?

1) How fast is LU's pace? From my unmodded AP experience so far, marine training is my bottleneck. For the first 80-ish hrs I can do absolutely nothing in my fighter. Then, boom, my marines finished their training, then within the next 10 hrs I have factories, traders, M2s, headquarters, everything. Is that an acceptable pace for LU or will the universe be ruled by OCV in 5 min?

2) I expect the Phanon Corp to grow exponentially, meaning they'll spend the first 20 hrs making 5m, and then the next 20 hrs making 20m, and then the next 20 hrs making 100m, so on and so forth 'cause money makes money. What troubles me is that if I try to fight them 60 hrs into the game, I'll face a few M6, no big deal; but if I somehow screw up and delay for 20 hrs, I can face multiple M7s. Is that right?

3) Weapons and ships, how balanced are they? I have no problem with some ships/weapons in vanilla being stronger than others as soon as there are reasons behind it, e.g. Teladi ships suck 'cause the whole race doesn't care about fighting anyway. I don't want them as "balanced" as in XRM, where HEPT, PAC and PRG have basically the same stats from what I heard. Also, in vanilla game I'm able to just pick the ships I like from a large list of "viable" ones, but in LU is there still room for preferences? I don't want to be like "hey here's my favorite LX but only a wing of ugly eclipse is capable of fighting OCV I have to mass produce the eclipse".

[Litcube]

I don't want to be like "hey here's my favorite LX but only a wing of ugly eclipse is capable of fighting OCV I have to mass produce the eclipse".

What is this obsession with averting from "unsightly" ships. Are we all aware we don't have to actually make love to the ships we use?

[Joubarbe]

I always make love to my car once before starting it in the morning.

[dizzy]

(for future LU questions please post them on the LU thread, moderators in here tend to be very strongly enforcing this rule)

1) How fast is LU's pace? From my unmodded AP experience so far, marine training is my bottleneck. For the first 80-ish hrs I can do absolutely nothing in my fighter. Then, boom, my marines finished their training, then within the next 10 hrs I have factories, traders, M2s, headquarters, everything. Is that an acceptable pace for LU or will the universe be ruled by OCV in 5 min?

It is highly likely that if you have ever played any significant amount of time in X3 before you will actually feel the opposite, that the OCV is way too slow. Don't need to worry at all about that. I haven't attacked the OCV at all in 10 game days and even with Revelation Plus (which almost doubles their expansion rate) they are still barely out of Bluish Snout. In short, don't even worry about it unless you plan to wait 30 game days before building a fleet.

2) I expect the Phanon Corp to grow exponentially, meaning they'll spend the first 20 hrs making 5m, and then the next 20 hrs making 20m, and then the next 20 hrs making 100m, so on and so forth 'cause money makes money. What troubles me is that if I try to fight them 60 hrs into the game, I'll face a few M6, no big deal; but if I somehow screw up and delay for 20 hrs, I can face multiple M7s. Is that right?

Phanon isn't that smart. Yes, theoretically they should grown exponentially but there both inherent limitations in how smart they are and intentional limits on them. For the first part, Phanon makes money in a a few ways (UTs, selling factory products and the Phanon parent corporation salary). If you ever played LU you would know that UTs aren't a good way to make money (even when you get to 60 of them), you need other mechanisms like many large Saturn Complex Hubs to make serious money. Now considering that Phanon doesn't know to buy and deploy SCHs but only deploy single factories, even the top generation that can deploy 25 or so factories won't be a match in terms of money making to a SINGLE SCH120 (which you can do fairly easy). Hell, they aren't even a match to how much money you can do per hour by doing build station missions.

As for the intentional limits, when a Phanon generation expands to a certain size they are automatically upgraded to the next level. Don't know about any intentional limits on the top level but even without any it is limited by the inherent lack of smarts as described in the previous paragraph. They are a good enemy for early to midgame but don't think they can take over the universe.

3) Weapons and ships, how balanced are they? I have no problem with some ships/weapons in vanilla being stronger than others as soon as there are reasons behind it, e.g. Teladi ships suck 'cause the whole race doesn't care about fighting anyway. I don't want them as "balanced" as in XRM, where HEPT, PAC and PRG have basically the same stats from what I heard. Also, in vanilla game I'm able to just pick the ships I like from a large list of "viable" ones, but in LU is there still room for preferences? I don't want to be like "hey here's my favorite LX but only a wing of ugly eclipse is capable of fighting OCV I have to mass produce the eclipse".

Most weapon stats changes in LU that I know of are derived from the objective of making LU much faster than the vanilla game by reducing the number of in-sector projectiles that the engine has to track. That's done in 2 ways: increase weapon projectile speed and reduce the fire rate. Combining both results in a very different pew-pew experience from vanilla and any other X3 mod, auto-aim is king (since weapons are much faster auto-aim will hit targets more easily), piloting skill in terms of strafing doesn't matter that much anymore (also because of weapons being faster). Generally this means that you can't take out a group that is both outnumbering and outclassing you, you will die and I think that's good. The way I think about LU is building an empire and taking it into battle like a general rather than being the CAG of a fighter squad.

Another big change in LU weapons is the very small laser recharge rate which means that generally you can't fire weapons continuously, you will have to save your shots and balancing strong weapons that drain your batteries quickly vs weak weapons that allow you to fire guns for longer will be an issue to consider.

More information on the relevant wiki page:
http://litcube.xtimelines.net/wiki/inde ... re_Balance

[fireanddream]

Wow that nails it, thanks for all the replies! Will definitely try out LU after I finish this save.

So combat in LU is like trading punches... don't really have a problem with that, especially with MLCC I'm more than happy to accept losses.

As for trading, don't care about UTs anyway. In TC I had 10, until they were gradually destroyed by Qs. In AP, 5. I used UTs not so much to make money but to mobilize all the goods in the universe, so GOD might hold off killing stations...

And finally, speaking of pretty ships vs ugly ships:
I'm flying an Osaka, I don't regret it.
But you're flying a pancake.
Lemme check my cargobay... Ah, 10,000, not bad, give me all that juicy Ecells.
But you're flying a pancake.
You know, statistically there's hardly any difference between Tyr and Osaka anyway.
But you're flying a pancake.
I'm doing the right thing.
But you're flying a pancake.
You know what, screw this white crab pancake thing, lemme get my Tyr already.