Complexing Mines

[Cursed Ghost]

Hi all

Ok so by now I’m quiet familiar with the process of building complexes and can baring game bugs where the computer refuses to link stations together correctly build reasonably neat tidy complexes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kyH83nK6dM

was very helpful in that regard and this is the method i use as it's simple and it works.

Although the biggest complex I’ve build is still only about 11 stations 1 ore mine and 10 typhoon fabs

unfortunately the whole complex building system is overly complicated and needs a complete overhaul yeah you can build some reasonable complexes with a bit of patients but it really it needs to be way way simpler it shouldn't take players hours to build complexes i should be able to build a 1000 station complex in about 10 minute which is simply not possible with the current system yeah you might be able to build a complex that big but it will take you a hell of a lot longer than 10 minutes but i digress and this is a complaint for another day.

so to the point as we all know of all the stations in game mines are the most difficult to link together and the whole process is a really good example of horrendously bad design the tractor beam just isn’t precise enough even if you get stations in proximity which is tough enough you will never get the nodes aligned properly because not only are you trying to manoeuvre the station in all 3 dimension but you are trying to handle rotation as well and with a tool as imprecise as the tractor beam that is virtually impossible.

Therefore I’m wondering if anyone knows of a straightforward method of linking mines together because my attempts have all ended in failure I simply can not line these thing up using the tractor beam it’s just not precise enough even if i manage to get stations in proximity i cant get the nodes to line up correctly and keep getting spaghetti junction is there no way to snap stations in to proper alignment once you get them roughly positioned so that everything lines up correctly ?

There has to be an easier way than this.

[shanrak]

There's a few things you can do.

1. If you want to stay unmodified, you can apply the tubeless mod to completely hide the tubes. The downside is your complex hub will look like its floating in space.

2. If you don't mind being modified, there's a script called Complex Cleaner that may be useful to you.

Any more than that and this topic probably should be moved to the scripts and modding section

[ancienthighway]

I've never had any problems linking my mines to my complexes using CLS1 transports. I can even link them across gates into different sectors.

I've created large self containing complexes in the past, but for the last couple of years I've taken to using smaller complexes and making use of transports for connecting them.

[fireanddream]

I had this brilliant idea once in TC to have a wall of mines in the back of my owned sector, I ended up constructing a sack of potatoes, with the sack itself invisible.

[paulhamm]

Ah young padawan there is a solution. Join us. You will not regret it.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216690

There are 3 options that I have used. Complex Cleaner, FCC, and Saturn complex hub though that last one is not on the list. Saturn complex hub is kind of weird. REMEMBER TO READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! on all of them. I prefer the first two as they work better for my play style.

Saturn complex hub http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=294043 Only allows closed loop complexes.

If you want you can make a copy of the game folder to maintain plain Jane games. If you are running X3AP you may want to check out Litcube's Universe or one of the other total mods.

[Triaxx2]

Mines are a matter of patience. I organized the mines in the Unknown Sector West of Xenon 534 into a solid wall with the rocks facing the gate and all the super structures facing away. Took the better part of a day, but it's not impossible. All done with out any complex mods either. Didn't become hard to play in until I added the support complexes.

[jlehtone]

... it will take you a hell of a lot longer than 10 minutes ...

... a tool as imprecise as the tractor beam that is virtually impossible.

Back in the days ... of X3R, when Tractor Beam was introduced for the first time, things were much more harsh. Even with the "refined" implementation in X3R version 2.0 it took about 20 minutes per Mine for relatively short tows and rotation was practically (not merely virtually) unfeasible. Therefore, what you conceive as imprecise, is rather an easy luxury precision tool for anyone with X3R towing experience.

On relative scale. On absolute scale you are right; there could be more precision. But then again, the regular station building does not allow genuine 3D rotation either. Doesn't that annoy you too?

There has to be an easier way than this.

• Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the mess
• Pink paint, aka SEP (somebody else's problem)
• Lowered expectations. "Whatever. It's good enough as is, and I won't return to this sector anyway. Ever."

Or mods. They allow exactness, which the sorely GUI lacks.

[AleksMain]

...
Therefore I’m wondering if anyone knows of a straightforward method of linking mines together because my attempts have all ended in failure I simply can not line these thing up using the tractor beam it’s just not precise enough even if i manage to get stations in proximity i cant get the nodes to line up correctly and keep getting spaghetti junction is there no way to snap stations in to proper alignment once you get them roughly positioned so that everything lines up correctly ?

There has to be an easier way than this.

I had not used mods, my game X3:AP is unmodified and yet I was able to tow using Tiger with Tractor beam all mines in sectors for my complexes.

There is no line, no shape, not 1000s of stations, because it is game.


Exit from complex is clear always, I use mini map to place my stations in the cells of grid (both vertical and horizontal).
Complex is something like it :

.....X
...XX
.XXX
XXXX
XXXX--o
XXXX
.XXX
...XX
.....X

where X - station
o- exist from complex

Each complex is far from NPC stations or Jump gates.


Here is example (2 images of same complex):
http://i.imgur.com/jFkNU8U.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/mbqBxQW.jpg

[Morkonan]

...i should be able to build a 1000 station complex in about 10 minute which is simply not possible with the current system..

That's not possible in the current system because the current system is not designed to support complexes of that scale...

... to manoeuvre the station in all 3 dimension but you are trying to handle rotation as well and with a tool as imprecise as the tractor beam that is virtually impossible.

It's not "really" that difficult. It simply takes practice and patience. It also means one should recognize the necessity that complexes are not always going to look "perfect." Asteroids aren't symmetrical, after all, anyway.

..Therefore I’m wondering if anyone knows of a straightforward method of linking mines together ... is there no way to snap stations in to proper alignment once you get them roughly positioned so that everything lines up correctly ?

There has to be an easier way than this.

On "alignment", use the cardinal orientation views and the snap-to command so that you can easily judge the x/y/z alignment of stations in relation to their neighbors.

I link mines last and always at the rear of the complex and below the general "plane" of orientation of the complex in relationship to the complex's hub. I have generally not had any issues, but I'm probably forgetting how confusing it all was for me when I first started playing.

CdrDave's vids are the seminal tutorial videos for X3TC. The method he uses is virtually the same that I have used, IIRC. Follow his instructions and you won't go wrong. It is worth noting, however, that factories have different node points - Not every factor has a connector node in the same location on the model.

Using the Xmodels 3D and Stats viewer, you may be able to see the connection points on various stations, at least I think that's what it's showing, when you load the model and choose the Show Weapons/Cockpit highlight features. This may be of some help to you. http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=235903 (Not sure if that is the latest iteration or not, but it works just fine for me at version 2.0.3.2.)

[Timsup2nothin]

Two words.

Tube.

Less.

Pretty much everything bad about complex building is eliminated by the tubeless complex (non)mod.

[Allan F]

Mines are a matter of patience. I organized the mines in the Unknown Sector West of Xenon 534 into a solid wall with the rocks facing the gate and all the super structures facing away. Took the better part of a day, but it's not impossible. All done with out any complex mods either. Didn't become hard to play in until I added the support complexes.

Please come again when you have cleaned up Savage Spur.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/wk5wsw.jpg

[Triaxx2]

Sounds like a nice easy task.

I actually prefer the Galleon for towing work. It's surprisingly small and only loses 3m/s when you're dragging a massive roid. And being a carrier, it's got fighter coverage if someone turns up to try and ruin the party.

[Jimmy C]

Speaking of the tubeless mod, I tried to find it in the scripting and Mods board, but could only find versions for old versions of TC from about '10. Is there anything newer that works with AP currently?

[shanrak]

Speaking of the tubeless mod, I tried to find it in the scripting and Mods board, but could only find versions for old versions of TC from about '10. Is there anything newer that works with AP currently?

I think there was a post somewhere that explains how to make your own version?

[Killjaeden]

the tubeless mod for TC should work with AP, if you use the extracted files. In fact, a tubeless mod for X3R should work for AP as well... it's all the same file. If you use extracted files you shouldn't even get a ***modified***. Same with the no-adsign mod.

[Cursed Ghost]

I've never had any problems linking my mines to my complexes using CLS1 transports. I can even link them across gates into different sectors.

I've created large self containing complexes in the past, but for the last couple of years I've taken to using smaller complexes and making use of transports for connecting them.

i could never figure out how to use the CLS software and to be honest that really doesn't address the awful implementation of the complex system

just out of curiosity how do you use the CLS software anyway ?

On relative scale. On absolute scale you are right; there could be more precision. But then again, the regular station building does not allow genuine 3D rotation either. Doesn't that annoy you too?

Generally no because I don’t usually rotate stations that is just asking for trouble because again the rotation mechanic isn’t precise enough its hard enough just getting stations to be on the same X/Y/Z axis so that when you link things together you get neat tidy connections it’s the whole reason I generally don’t bother with complexes at all I haven’t since they where first introduced because the system is just to complicated and too much messing about while the idea of complexing stations is a good one the implementation is awful, its unnecessarily complicated and convoluted and it just doesn’t work very well and in my opinion if players are having to read help guides or watch tutorial videos to figure out how to do this stuff properly then the devs are doing it wrong and they need to remove the current system and do something simpler and more straightforward

I’m all for flavour and depth but this is neither its complexity for complexities sake and it need to be removed

That's not possible in the current system because the current system is not designed to support complexes of that scale...

Semantics you get the point

It's not "really" that difficult. It simply takes practice and patience. It also means one should recognize the necessity that complexes are not always going to look "perfect." Asteroids aren't symmetrical, after all, anyway.

True but it would be nice not to have ships crashing into the tubes it would also be nice not to be getting lagged to hell and back when you build big complexes

Please come again when you have cleaned up Savage Spur.

http://oi66.tinypic.com/wk5wsw.jpg

Show off

with regards to the tubeless mod sounds like its something worth looking at where do i find that ?

[ancienthighway]

...just out of curiosity how do you use the CLS software anyway

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=275925

A CLS1 trader requires the CLS1 software and navigation software. Depending on sectors and distances between supplying and consuming stations, a jump drive could be useful.

A homebase of a supplying station must be set. If you already have a pilot of Cargo Messenger or better, i.e. one that can use the jump drive, you're ready to set up the trader. Otherwise dock at the Trading Station in Herron's Nebula and "start" the internal commodity logistics set up there. In any other station, you'll pick up an apprentice pilot, but at this one you can get up to a Cargo Messenger. Use the trader setting to check and fire any pilot other than a CM.

Cargo Messenger
The cargo messenger is able to distribute four products from five suppliers to ten consumers. He is also able to use modern Jumpdrive technology to move around more quickly. The cargo messenger is paid a wage of 30 credits per Mizura flown, paid after each trip.

So, if your consumer station needed ore, silicon, and energy cells, and you just happen to have 3 ore mines, 1 silicon mine and an SPP, anywhere, you could set up your CLS1 trader with the home base and product (say OM1, ore), then set up the rest of the suppliers (OM2, ore, OM3, ore, SM1, silicon, SPP1 e-cells). Your consumer list would be something like Big Complex 1. Set jump drive conditions, and send the trader on it's way.

The trader will look at what the consumer needs comparing that to what the suppliers have, then move the wares based on what is in the greatest shortage at the consumer.

You just built a new complex that needs ore, silicon, and energy? Simply add it as a consumer complex.

[patient zero]

I quit connecting mines to my complexes because it causes an extraordinary loss of FPS and because local asteroids are seldom adequate for large scale production. It's much easier to cherry pick the best high yield 'roids and use CLS with jumpdrives for delivery.