Trump

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Mightysword
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Post by Mightysword » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 17:03

Gosnell wrote:uys will you calm down about trump,he isnt the next hitler ectG,alot of the media is hyperboling.
And they're failing, I love it.

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notaterran
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Re: Trump

Post by notaterran » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 17:18

Mightysword wrote:- To see the media fail so spectacularly in bringing him down. The media for too long have been believe themselves poweful, playing Kingmaker for the most part, it's nice to see them getting shitted on.
Actually they're still going easy on him, and the reason has been obvious for the past several months: Trump = good ratings. That stuff about Trump University and such? The press had that information for a long time but the ones who deployed it were Cruz and Rubio, and that was pretty far down the calendar. They (the press) are trying to milk the guy for all they can before they really turn on him. And they WILL turn on him in the general because Trump has threatened to limit what the press can say. They'll be on him like rabid dogs. And my best guess is, that will happen right after the convention in Cleveland. Trump has a real shot at the nomination, but Trump winning the White House? I'm more likely to jump back in time to 1972 and have sex with Helen Mirren.
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Sorkvild
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Post by Sorkvild » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 18:24

Soros (et consortes) linked establishment can't discuss with Trump, this guy ain't Cruz or Jeb they can counter in a debate. Trump is a different league, a league they can't tackle. Establishment is pathetic and lost already by using argumentum ad Hitlerum widely, not to mention attempts of recent physical and verbal assaults.
Marxist Hilalry / communist Sanders and feared by pseudoliberal media (judging by the amount of manure they are throwing at thim) - Donald Trump who tells like it is by turning the political correctness inside out. I'd not worry about Trump, this guy is able and ready. I'd be more worried about the triumph of Obama epigones advocating for more socialism and control.
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Len5
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Post by Len5 » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 22:25

Trump isn't PC and that's why everyone loves to attack him and say how bad he is, just to show other people how good they are.

"Look at me, I'm such a good person, because I say Trump is the next Hitler."

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felter
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Post by felter » Tue, 15. Mar 16, 23:10

The Simpsons episode Bart to the future from 2000 predicted that Trump would become president just before Lisa Simpson Became president:
wikipedia wrote:38-year-old Lisa is the first straight female President of the United States, trying to rebuild the country after the economic downfall during the rule of Donald Trump.
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Aken_Bosch
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Post by Aken_Bosch » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 01:20

notaterran wrote:But remember, Berlusconi won three elections and Italy is still standing - on the sharp edge of an unfathomable abyss of uncertainty and recession**.
**There, I fixed it for you. :P

One thing that may be not really known outside of the country...with all the bad that can be said about Berlusconi (and there's an embarassing lot of that), actually he's been the last prime minister being indeed elected by the (tight) majority of people through a normal election process...after that, he was practically forced to resign during the peak of the "spread" crisis and the president of republic replaced him with a contingency government lead by Mr. Monti...then, through internal "agreements" the Monti administration was replaced by the Letta one, that was replaced after a short time by the current Renzi administration.

To sum it up, the last time italian people has been allowed to vote their national governors has been more than six years and three legislatures ago, and even on that occasion we chose an absolute clown. Never underestimate the combined will power of a whole country to royally screw themselves.

That said, I agree with you, if there's someone to compare Trump to, that is definitely Silvio Berlusconi: same entrepreneur background, same loud-mouthed attitude, same self-reverence...convergent evolution at work...the difference being, the biggest threat Italy could pose to World peace was probably stopping the export of Nutella, or some similarly ill-fated decision leading to global catastrophe. :P

@felter - there's another Simpsons episode set in Italy where Homer mimics from a balcony the moves and gestures of Mussolini...when he is scolded by Lisa for that, he replies that he actually intended to imitate Trump...retrospectively disturbing...

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clakclak
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Post by clakclak » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 02:11

Does it even matter if he wins? Everyone knows that after his first term Kanye West will replace him that is of course unless Taylor Swift decides to run for the oval office.
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Post by Mightysword » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 05:20

mrbadger wrote: They created this situation, Trump is just the first one to realise he could stand a chance of winning by pretty much just being an openly dishonest pompous moron. And he's right.
Pompous? Maybe. Moron? Debatable. Dishonest ... depend on relative angle. No one gonna say Trump is an honest man, but than, name me a honest politician. Did you watch Trump's victory speech at Nevada last month? I'll paraphrase a part of it:

"It's true that I'm very greedy. I love money, and all my life I have always want to grab grab grab, I can't have enough of it".

Now, he's the only candidate that can survive saying something like that, no other candidates would survive saying anything close to "I love money". Let's put it in respective of other front runners:

- Hilary: claiming she will brings the fight to wallstreet, yet everytime people brings up the fact she has no qualm received 6-7 digits donation from wallstreet, or her daughter receiving 600k/year salary with no experience, she always try to play down the effect.

- Cruz: claiming he's clean, his wife and him risked everything (morgate their house and all that crap) for him to start the nomination race. Yet, he seems to forget to mention he also got a nice fat loan from Golden to help out.

Of course, when confronted they all give some kind of "valid" excuse, but given the mood and general perception of the electorate, it's not surprise why Trump doing so well. After all, we have all settle down to the fact all the politician are crook, might as well pick a crook who is the least hypocrite among them all. :wink:

Edit: So I just got home after work today and round up the result of today's primary on multiple channel. I kinda have this impression for a while now but today I think it's undoubly the case but ... why is it the UK (i.e to extended shown on BBC) seem to be more even afraid of a Trump president than even the American do? :?

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felter
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Post by felter » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 09:00

Because we actually see what damage he will do, which will effect everyone on the planet, while the Americans seem to be wearing blinkers and can't seem to either see or grasp what kind of person Trump really is.
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Post by Len5 » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 09:51

So what's that damage he will do actually?

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Post by kondor_be » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 14:22

As an outlander, I think it is funny as hell.
All the establishment are blinking their eyes, covering their ears and hoping that the public will come to its senses and vote for the one that They tell them to.

But basically, Muricans give a big F**k You to the GOP. Rightly and well overdue too.

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Post by Mightysword » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 16:45

felter wrote:while the Americans seem to be wearing blinkers and can't seem to either see or grasp what kind of person Trump really is.
That seems to be the case that every non-trump people think here in America too, be it voters or his political opponents, that "you have no idea who is Trump".

Heh, I say that's a pretty naive assumption. Ever thought of the idea that the people do know, they just don't give a shit?

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Masterbagger
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Post by Masterbagger » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 17:13

felter wrote:Because we actually see what damage he will do, which will effect everyone on the planet, while the Americans seem to be wearing blinkers and can't seem to either see or grasp what kind of person Trump really is.
Trump would have a hard time doing more damage than the current administration or either of the democrats running. He might be less than polite about it but at least he's campaigning to fix a huge problem we have with the border. The dems are going to be in the very best case status quo and keep kicking that can down the road.

The real danger is the GOP establishment. If they betray America by choosing a different nominee in convention there will be a price paid in votes. I'd rather have Cruz but not at the cost of alienating people who would otherwise vote.
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Post by Mightysword » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 17:58

Masterbagger wrote:
He might be less than polite about it but at least he's campaigning to fix a huge problem we have with the border. The dems are going to be in the very best case status quo and keep kicking that can down the road.
Something like that, I have a feeling that voting for a Democrat and the country will implode sometime in the future. Vote for Trump, and the country probably implode right now. If those are the only choice then ... well, something better happen sooner than later. The sooner it happens, the smaller the mess, and the earlier the country can start rebuilding.
The real danger is the GOP establishment. If they betray America by choosing a different nominee in convention there will be a price paid in votes. I'd rather have Cruz but not at the cost of alienating people who would otherwise vote.
It won't happen. Gringrich put it best last night when he was asked if he place any stock in the convention, and he called the idea "insane". Paraphase what he said: we live in a the age of mass social media where millions had cast their votes, doing something like that is equivalent to commit suicide. He also notes that both Trump and Cruz have very strong personality, so the idea is that they'll just sit down quietly is just disillusion. Running as an independent is still an option for Trump. He probably know he won't win if he does that but I can totally see Trump doing that to screw the GOP if they edge him out in the convention because he knows the GOP won't win either. It would be hilarious to see the scenario in November where Democrat win the white house, Trump is the runner up and the GOP candidate finishes third. In fact, I would love to see that happens so the leadership can get their head out of their arse and seriously thinking about how to rebuild the party. Because I see so many things happen right now that make me feel the GOP is absolutely clueless.

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Masterbagger
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Post by Masterbagger » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 21:15

Never underestimate the power of the establishment GOP to anger actual conservatives.
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Observe
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Post by Observe » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 21:46

Trump is a natural response to the anger many Americans feel about the tide of social changes taking place in this country. Traditional American values are being threatened (gay rights for example) and liberal agendas (health care for example) are being pushed more and faster than many are ready for. These things combined with economic struggles (being blamed on International trade) have caused a surge of fierce reaction with the resulting backlash in favor of someone like Trump who sympathizes with this class of people. We might even say that support for someone such as Trump was inevitable.

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felter
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Post by felter » Wed, 16. Mar 16, 22:22

Trump cares about one thing, well actually two things, the first being Trump, and the second is making money for Trump. He does not care about anything else apart from that, he certainly does not feel any kind of sympathy for anyone else, just money and he doesn't care how he makes it or who gets harmed when he makes it, so long as it ends up in his own back pocket, and it is him who has basically said that.
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notaterran
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Post by notaterran » Thu, 17. Mar 16, 00:39

For those who worry about a possible (I'd say imaginary :D) Trump presidency, consider this: he's the front runner in the Republican race but he's not a favorite to win when you consider the entire electorate. To give you an idea, a Trump presidency is even less likely than Marine Le Pen winning in France. There are voters who feel disenfranchised and resentful of the cultural and demographic changes in the country, and are simply expressing their anger through Trump; that's basically it. The sad part is that many people won't be voting for Clinton as much as they'll be voting against Trump. The only people I see enthusiastic about Clinton are the older, obsolete second-wave feminists and those who have always been loyal to the Clinton camp. As for the GOP, the Republican establishment is playing with fire if they think that they can steal the nomination from Trump in Cleveland, provided that he's the one with the most delegates (I can almost see the riot police storming in). Even if he doesn't get the magic number, a plurality of delegates and rabid supporters will give him all the leverage that he needs.

A Trump nomination, that's not only possible but -after winning Florida the way he did- pretty much a given. But a Trump presidency? The Democrats must be ecstatic that so many Republicans have forgotten the lesson of Barry Goldwater.
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Post by Mightysword » Thu, 17. Mar 16, 01:40

felter wrote:Trump cares about one thing, well actually two things, the first being Trump, and the second is making money for Trump. He does not care about anything else apart from that, he certainly does not feel any kind of sympathy for anyone else, just money and he doesn't care how he makes it or who gets harmed when he makes it, so long as it ends up in his own back pocket, and it is him who has basically said that.
Yes, I think there are very few people who voted for Trump don't know all that, and even fewer who didn't vote for him don't know. So beside stating the obvious, what's your point though?

notaterran wrote: But a Trump presidency? The Democrats must be ecstatic that so many Republicans have forgotten the lesson of Barry Goldwater.
Heh, you know, you'll see a lot of none-the-wiser pundits these day say something along the line "Trump was inevitable" and "everyone should have seen this coming a long way ago". I read those articles and think "such great insights ... NOT". Amazing how wise people are after the fact? Tell me, how many people actually predict Trump would take the primary by storm 6-8 months ago? No one, myself included. Heck, I don't even think Trump himself did. Right now some people are saying the GOP primpary tactic has been all wrong because no one took Trump seriously, like how Bush and Rubio (2 guys at the last place) spent all their time and afford fighting each others while ignoring Trump. Guess who's having the last laugh right now?

So yeah, just saying, you can come up with all the rational and logic you can, but if you think Trump is a joke ... the joke could very well be on you at the end. After all, he just single handily turned the entire Republican party into one big fat and sad joke. And if you're a democrat giggling over this right now, there is the saying of "be careful with what you wish for" :wink:

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notaterran
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Post by notaterran » Thu, 17. Mar 16, 04:12

Many people foresaw the trainwreck of the Barry Goldwater campaign. It doesn't take that much insight to know that Trump doesn't stand a real chance in the general. Most voters don't like him already (his unfavorable rating is "yuuuge" compared to other candidates) and no amount of pandering could significantly change that -the guy has simply burned too many bridges. I'm not saying it's impossible for someone like that to win an election (e.g. Berlusconi) but about the only thing that could tilt the balance in favor of Trump would be an FBI indicment or an act of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. If Trump wins, that means I'll have sex with a 27-year-old Helen Mirren. It's a sad state of affairs when our choices are between an annoying woman and a pandering egomaniac.

It's interesting that there are people on the other side of the Atlantic who are considerably more worried about Trump than we are :).
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