Trump

[Retiredman]

As a matter of interest, did Trump ever actually sign his business over to a blind account as he was supposed to? He said he had, when in fact he hadn't, and... I've heard nothing since.

Many of Trump's decisions seem motivated solely by money. I mean he tweeted yesterday about how he's trying to help Chinese toelcom company ZTE, who were (according to wikipedia) found guilty last year of selling tech to North Korea and Iran - Indeed, their current state is largely due to US sanctions because of that...

This is one area where I raise a red flag. Seems Trump want to fast track the telcom back into business. Then his group gets a 300 million contract from the Chinese.
Ding
ding
ding

He either serve as President in interest of the people or he runs his business.
Not both.
If the latter, then anything Mueller can come up with is nothing on what
he does with that telcom.
In my book that is out the door faster than the door can hit you in the ass.
And maybe some hard time in a 8 by 10 cell.

[Morkonan]

...And maybe some hard time in a 8 by 10 cell.

It's not impossible... Though, I would think that any investigation may stop short of that, considering the damage it would do to the office of "The President." Trump's already doing that sort of damage, sure. But, if he's sitting in jail, it's going to be a constant reminder to the rest of the world that... we suck. (As if they didn't already have that opinion.)

The good thing about that, if it happened? It'd show that our justice system has no fear and doesn't play favorites. Alternatively, though, even if it's a righteous charge, if it's pushed too hard by opposition parties, like the Democrats, even any true justice arising from it would seem tainted and would come under constant criticism of being "political."

So, if he did go to jail for something or at least was convicted, it may ultimately be a long-term lose/lose situation for the US. It's just not "good" no matter how anyone looks at what's going on now or prognosticating for a possible future.

IMO, in all honesty, we can trace just about all of this crap back to our kneejerk halphazard and fumbling responses to 9/11. But, that's a topic for another thread, considering how big it would be.

[BugMeister]

sorry, Mork but I disagree entirely..
the complete opposite is more likely to be the case
the world would be greatly relieved to see justice prevail in this matter

- it is rapidly becoming a matter of serious international concern..
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... un-gaddafi

- tact has never been something Trump considers to any degree
- his diplomacy skills are equally deplorable..

[- unrelated..??]
- we in the UK are also grappling with the Cambridge Analytica's involvement in voter manipulation:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... before-mps

- strange days, indeed..

[Morkonan]

sorry, Mork but I disagree entirely..
the complete opposite is more likely to be the case
the world would be greatly relieved to see justice prevail in this matter

Which part do you "completely disagree with?"

- it is rapidly becoming a matter of serious international concern..
...
- tact has never been something Trump considers to any degree
- his diplomacy skills are equally deplorable..
...

Agreed.

Trump doesn't seem to know what the whole "Libyan Model" was about... He doesn't understand. That's not surprising, but it's troubling that he insists on demonstrating his ignorance in public.

Khadaffi saw the growing need-for-action in the US after 9/11 and decided he wanted to be sure nobody would use it as an excuse to come stomp his face in, so he turned belly-up and renounced all WMDs and begged everyone to "come and see." OK, fine, since you're being so compliant, we will ignore you and, might, just might, even open up a little trade. Have a nice day, unless you do something so egregiously terrible we have to start paying attention to you, again.

Issue solved until the "Arab Spring" which just dumped too many opportunities for upheaval in Libya.

The same "promise" of a gradual return to somewhat normal relations could easily be extended to DPRK and KJU in return for his abandoning WMD. No problem - Everyone would be much happier just worrying about massed artillery pointing at the most populous city region on Earth...

Then, Trump steps into the room and feels the need to open his pie-hole and slap a big "I SAID SOMETHING" sticker on it...

Just... just... simply fookin' stoopid. He turned the conversation from "If you do something positive, we will too" to "YOU'LL END UP LIKE KHADAFFI "CAUSE I'M RUNNING FOR TEH OFFISE OF TEH PRESIDENCY! Make 'Murica Great Again! Crooked Hillary!"

<ahem> "Mr. President, you're already the President."

"WAT? I won?"

[BugMeister]

the 25th could be invoked..
there's one heck of a lot of evidence for Drumpf's idiocy..

[Observe]

the 25th could be invoked..
there's one heck of a lot of evidence for Drumpf's idiocy..

Depends who you talk to. Lot's of people voted for Trump and many/most of them are quite happy with Trump's performance. Whether Trump is mentally unstable, is not so clear from a clinical view.

There are something like 80% of white evangelical Christians who remain in favor of Trump. How is it, that such people who are so prone to shouting superior morality, love a guy like Trump? Idiocy? Perhaps evangelical Christians should not be able to vote, because they are bound to elect unfit leaders? What's next. People who wear their hats backwards are obviously suspect. They shouldn't be able to vote either.

[BugMeister]

- can we say that Farage, Drumpf et al are tarred with the same brush
- Cambridge Analytica's involvement with voter manipulation threw up the racist paradigm..
- and thus a campaign was formed..

- the Replicant's stand silent..
- the Russian's use of internet propaganda continues..
- it is (and was..) a threat to the EU as well as the US..

- oligarchy is the real enemy..
- democracy is under attack every day..

[Observe]

democracy is under attack every day..

Doesn't something have to exist, before it can be attacked?

[BugMeister]

- life is a work in progress..

[Mightysword]

Reading through this thread and see what people are posting ... I have been convinced many times the biggest reason why people can't sit down and talk and see the other side is because of: cynicism

Cynicism, cynicism, cynicism everywhere, it's almost like a cool thing to do that will somehow elate one's opinion to greater height and would magically inject the often absented critical thought. I think these days most of us (those who call ourselves adults) behave like kids, I remember kids love to use the words such as cynical, or senile on themselves because they think it makes them mature while the actual adults normally would not like to be associated with such words.

It would be great if we human can be more simple, honest to ourselves, and less prone to being hyperbolic and dramatic.

[BugMeister]

nothing wrong with a bit of healthy cynicism now and then..
as long as you see it for what it is, eh?

[Bishop149]

The news this morning was full of a potential Chinese capitulation on trade, giving way to the tune of $200 billion.
Bloody hell, methinks, maybe I had Trump all wrong? Have his ridiculous bully tactics yielded a spectacular result!? Maybe there something in this after all!?

Nope. . . . just more lies* from the Trump team. China say they have offered no such thing.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/18/china-d ... istry.html

Edit: *Ok some sources say the reports of the Chinese agreement came from within the Trump Administration, whilst others just say "rumours", so perhaps "lies" was over harsh.

@Mightysword
On this topic I think cynicism is entirely valid, in fact it is perhaps the only sensible approach. Throughout his entire life Mr Trump has barely done a single damn thing that wasn't plainly and openly motivated by his desire for personal aggrandisement and enrichment. There is no reason whatsoever to assume his ascending to the office of President would change this lifelong pattern of behaviour.

[BugMeister]

do you think Drumpf has visions of the Pyongyang Tower..
- ha, ha!!


PS:
- Zephyr Teachout..!!
- wow..!!

[Morkonan]

...It would be great if we human can be more simple, honest to ourselves, and less prone to being hyperbolic and dramatic.

I agree.

However, in the far distant past, one of my ancestors watched his optimistic friend get eaten by a lion.

Cynicism was born.

So, now, when we see lions, we get a bit cynical about our survival chances. And, now, when we see ethically bankrupt people "in charge" we get a bit cynical about their intentions and reliability.

In considering most things with a long view towards ultimate results, I tend to be optimistic. In the short term, however, I'm usually a bit of a cynic. Most of the errors, corrective actions, delays and problems appear pretty quickly. And, if that doesn't just completely destroy whatever goal or result one is considering, as long as one keeps plugging away at it, it's likely achievable. Or, so I like to think...

[Mightysword]

nothing wrong with a bit of healthy cynicism now and then..

So, now, when we see lions, we get a bit cynical ...

a bit

Oi, this thread (and pretty much everywhere else) is literally overflowing with cynicism, and you know it.

[Usenko]

Is there lots of cynicism? I'm sure there is some, but it's not cynical to:

* Call a person out on flagrant untruth.

* Point out a person's lack of consistency in public statements.

* Describe the many and varied ways a person's actions have caused damage to the office they hold and the country they have sworn to 'make great again'.

* Assume that someone who has a pattern of dishonest behaviour will continue to behave in that way.

[Mightysword]

Is there lots of cynicism? I'm sure there is some, but it's not cynical to:

As it turns out I may not be using the right word, I went and look up its definition and its original meaning doesn't seem to be broad enough to encompass my usage, or maybe I'm using it right because the modern usage of the world is applicable. The original meaning seems to limit itself to just personal gain or greed, my intention is meant to be broader than that, and it means just to assume the worst in each others or of ... anything really. And no, even within this thread, it's not really always about Trump.

[Morkonan]

Is there lots of cynicism? I'm sure there is some, but it's not cynical to:

As it turns out I may not be using the right word, I went and look up its definition and its original meaning doesn't seem to be broad enough to encompass my usage, or maybe I'm using it right because the modern usage of the world is applicable. The original meaning seems to limit itself to just personal gain or greed, my intention is meant to be broader than that, and it means just to assume the worst in each others or of ... anything really. And no, even within this thread, it's not really always about Trump.

I think your use was appropriate. After all, it was fully understood by others, right? "Definitions" aren't about what is written in a dictionary, they're about what the common culture understands words to mean.

Yes, perhaps we have a dim view of our future. Or, perhaps, we are a bit cynical when it comes down to the possibility for something positive to happen. But, we have a just cause to be so cynical - We don't see an optimistic path forward, given what our desires may be.

For me, I want an ethical, moral, leader that I can trust and that will tell me the truth. I see none of that in Trump and I'm a fiscal conservative who should be rallying to his side after the reduction in corporate tax rates!

But, I can't. The man is "bad." He says bad things. He does bad things. He seems to support bad things. The sorts of things he speaks out in favor of are exactly the sorts of things that I generally consider "bad." And, he simply doesn't talk about specifics very often and, when he does, he lies...

So, yeah, I'm a cynic when it comes down to the possibility that "good things will happen." I think the damage that Trump will do will take decades to repair, if ever. And... our Congress doesn't seem to give a damn and too many voters don't pay any real attention to anything, preferring to have their thoughts crammed into their own heads by someone else... :/

But, if I find something optimistic, I will promise to post on it, point it out, and give credit where credit is due!

I don't expect making a bunch of posts on that subject, though...

[pjknibbs]

I'm with Ambrose Bierce on this one: "A cynic is a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be".

[BugMeister]

"Here come ole flat-top, he come groovin' up slowly.."

- language can be challenging, Tom Wolf was a shining star when it came to defining the "feeling" engendered by words - a master..
- it's always provoked discussion, and will continue to do so
Marshall McLuhan used to take issue with it's "misuse"..
- and it's interesting that Wolf's last publication should challenge the blank assumptions of Darwinism, and put the case for language..

- to pursue this wild paranoia, like blade-runner, we search for the replicants among us

- meanwhile, the illusion that "money is power" has come home to roost..

- in a world of oligarchs awash with monkey-money, it's hard not to be cynical..
- no wonder it has gone beyond comedy..

- even if you are NOT partisan, you have to ask yourself
- at what point does lobbying become bribery?

- at what point do we stop laughing, and sit up and take notice?
- It appears there is a growing number of people who are simply perplexed
- by what passes as "politics" or what constitutes "political power"

- as always, one trusts that people will hold together, and continue to press the case for probity in government..

*Bug exits to The Frog Chorus by Lord Paul MCartnish GCE and bar*

- etc, etc..