Trump
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This here is pretty good. I also like how they mention at the end that Pence could also be held accountable.
Meanwhile it looks like Russia is trying to step in and save their American President, a transcript can easily be faked. I did like the part where Putin offers a recording, and later changes that to a written transcript, probably as the recording has some incriminating evidence in it.
Meanwhile it looks like Russia is trying to step in and save their American President, a transcript can easily be faked. I did like the part where Putin offers a recording, and later changes that to a written transcript, probably as the recording has some incriminating evidence in it.
Florida Man Makes Announcement.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
Maybe they were referring to Trump's purported recordings, and belatedly realized that confirming those recordings wouldn't be a good thing for their fair-haired buddy.
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X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
End of the day, Trump can disclose any classified information he wants, even from third party countries, and have no doubt about it, countries that collaborate with the USA in intelligence matters know about his right to do so and hence, provide just the necessary details as to not compromise operational security.
It is funny, Trump disclosed information about a forthcoming operation against ISIS to Russia, and everybody is like wtf! That is wrong! Russians are not be trusted with that information.
Well, Russia contrary to what the press will make you believe, is not supporting ISIS, actually, as part of their support for Mr Assad, they are quite happy to bomb the hell out of ISIS as to regain lost territory in favour of Mr Assad.
Why the press is against friendlier ties between the USA and Russia are beyond me.
It is funny, Trump disclosed information about a forthcoming operation against ISIS to Russia, and everybody is like wtf! That is wrong! Russians are not be trusted with that information.
Well, Russia contrary to what the press will make you believe, is not supporting ISIS, actually, as part of their support for Mr Assad, they are quite happy to bomb the hell out of ISIS as to regain lost territory in favour of Mr Assad.
Why the press is against friendlier ties between the USA and Russia are beyond me.
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes
NO, the information that Trump supposedly gave to the Russians was (once again) supposedly given to them on the one condition that it would not be shared with any other third party. Trump was (and again) supposedly told this but went ahead and told the Russians anyway. Whether the information was important or contained any kind of pertinent information in the fight against ISIS or contained any kind of information that was a security risk or not, it was information that Trump had no right (once more) supposedly to give away, as the American intelligence agencies had agreed they wouldn't do that.Santi wrote:End of the day, Trump can disclose any classified information he wants, even from third party countries, and have no doubt about it, countries that collaborate with the USA in intelligence matters know about his right to do so and hence, provide just the necessary details as to not compromise operational security.
It is funny, Trump disclosed information about a forthcoming operation against ISIS to Russia, and everybody is like wtf! That is wrong! Russians are not be trusted with that information.
Well, Russia contrary to what the press will make you believe, is not supporting ISIS, actually, as part of their support for Mr Assad, they are quite happy to bomb the hell out of ISIS as to regain lost territory in favour of Mr Assad.
Why the press is against friendlier ties between the USA and Russia are beyond me.
This is why they are worried about why future information may not be so forth coming, as how can you trust someone when they are just going to give your confidential information away to the people you don't want it to be given to, even after they said they would not do that.
There is something I've been thinking, after Watergate Nixon was impeached but he wasn't jailed, but there were 48 people that worked with him that were jailed, advisor's and what not. Now Trump may (lol will) also be impeached, as the President he will not be sent to prison but his closest advisor's very much could be. The thing is, two of his closest advisor's are his daughter and son-in-law, I wonder if they have figured it out that if he gets impeached, they are going to go to jail in his stead.
Florida Man Makes Announcement.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
NO, Trump can disclose any classified information as he see fit as President of the USA, he is legally allowed to do so, and intelligence briefings will counterbalance that.felter wrote:NO, the information that Trump supposedly gave to the Russians was (once again) supposedly given to them on the one condition that it would not be shared with any other third party. Trump was (and again) supposedly told this but went ahead and told the Russians anyway. Whether the information was important or contained any kind of pertinent information in the fight against ISIS or contained any kind of information that was a security risk or not, it was information that Trump had no right (once more) supposedly to give away, as the American intelligence agencies had agreed they wouldn't do that.Santi wrote:End of the day, Trump can disclose any classified information he wants, even from third party countries, and have no doubt about it, countries that collaborate with the USA in intelligence matters know about his right to do so and hence, provide just the necessary details as to not compromise operational security.
It is funny, Trump disclosed information about a forthcoming operation against ISIS to Russia, and everybody is like wtf! That is wrong! Russians are not be trusted with that information.
Well, Russia contrary to what the press will make you believe, is not supporting ISIS, actually, as part of their support for Mr Assad, they are quite happy to bomb the hell out of ISIS as to regain lost territory in favour of Mr Assad.
Why the press is against friendlier ties between the USA and Russia are beyond me.
This is why they are worried about why future information may not be so forth coming, as how can you trust someone when they are just going to give your confidential information away to the people you don't want it to be given to, even after they said they would not do that.
There is something I've been thinking, after Watergate Nixon was impeached but he wasn't jailed, but there were 48 people that worked with him that were jailed, advisor's and what not. Now Trump may (lol will) also be impeached, as the President he will not be sent to prison but his closest advisor's very much could be. The thing is, two of his closest advisor's are his daughter and son-in-law, I wonder if they have figured it out that if he gets impeached, they are going to go to jail in his stead.
That you have US officials disclosing an operation against ISIS to the press, putting soldiers lives at risk is despicable.
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes
Santi you are missing the point. No one is disputing the legality of the action. Its at least a betrayal of trust to those that shared information on the principle it to not get shared. Anyone is free to break agreements, just dont expect people to agree to stuff in future, thats what felter is saying.
MFG
Ketraar
MFG
Ketraar
Could be, but trust is not something easily gained in the intelligence services, and proof is needed as to what details about the operation against ISIS were disclosed by Trump to Russia, and what kind of operation was it.Ketraar wrote:Santi you are missing the point. No one is disputing the legality of the action. Its at least a betrayal of trust to those that shared information on the principle it to not get shared. Anyone is free to break agreements, just dont expect people to agree to stuff in future, thats what felter is saying.
MFG
Ketraar
Those sharing information do so under very tight risk assessments, I find it hard to believe that a loud mouth like Trump will be provided with raw intelligence data.
A por ellos que son pocos y cobardes
A good example of what he has done.
During world war 2 we knew what the Nazis were up to due to the fact we had cracked their code using the enigma machine, but the problem was a lot of the time we couldn't do anything about what we knew because if we did the Germans would figure out we had cracked their codes, and that their secrets were no longer secrets. So we did nothing, we knew people were going to die and we sat back and let them die, as we didn't want the Nazis to know that we knew what they were doing. We would share information with those allies that needed to know the information while keeping it secret from other allies mainly as they would act on that information letting the Nazis know that we had to know what they were doing.
Now we have today, someone has gave America confidential information that they did not want the Russians to know, for whatever reason, probably as letting the Russians know was going to let them know something that they didn't want them to know. It didn't have to be the information in itself, but it could be about how they got that information, obviously there was something that they did not want the Russians to know. Yeah Trump can give out whatever information he wants to, to whomever he wants to, but there is a line with some information you don't give out, and when someone says, listen don't tell the Russians, then you don't tell the Russians, as there has to be a reason they are saying don't tell the Russians. But no Trump in all his glory, for whatever reason, just had to tell the Russians. And that is what the problem is, that is what everyone is moaning about, even his own supporters are asking what has he done and why did he do it, after being told not to.
Presidents are given confidential information all the time, every single day and it's a secret, they can't just tell whomever they want, it's part and parcel of the job. They get told secrets and some of those secrets they never tell to anyone, they take them to their grave. Trump couldn't even last the day, let alone to his grave. How can he be trusted to keep secrets, and that is probably the biggest issue out of all of it, he gave away a secret he shouldn't have.
During world war 2 we knew what the Nazis were up to due to the fact we had cracked their code using the enigma machine, but the problem was a lot of the time we couldn't do anything about what we knew because if we did the Germans would figure out we had cracked their codes, and that their secrets were no longer secrets. So we did nothing, we knew people were going to die and we sat back and let them die, as we didn't want the Nazis to know that we knew what they were doing. We would share information with those allies that needed to know the information while keeping it secret from other allies mainly as they would act on that information letting the Nazis know that we had to know what they were doing.
Now we have today, someone has gave America confidential information that they did not want the Russians to know, for whatever reason, probably as letting the Russians know was going to let them know something that they didn't want them to know. It didn't have to be the information in itself, but it could be about how they got that information, obviously there was something that they did not want the Russians to know. Yeah Trump can give out whatever information he wants to, to whomever he wants to, but there is a line with some information you don't give out, and when someone says, listen don't tell the Russians, then you don't tell the Russians, as there has to be a reason they are saying don't tell the Russians. But no Trump in all his glory, for whatever reason, just had to tell the Russians. And that is what the problem is, that is what everyone is moaning about, even his own supporters are asking what has he done and why did he do it, after being told not to.
Presidents are given confidential information all the time, every single day and it's a secret, they can't just tell whomever they want, it's part and parcel of the job. They get told secrets and some of those secrets they never tell to anyone, they take them to their grave. Trump couldn't even last the day, let alone to his grave. How can he be trusted to keep secrets, and that is probably the biggest issue out of all of it, he gave away a secret he shouldn't have.
Florida Man Makes Announcement.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
Is the end of this thread in sight?
And has it been Trump who has been the sole architect of his own downfall...
Seems that way to me
I guess the answer to the question can a businessman with no political experience run America would be no.
Whether he could record the meetings then safely delete the recordings to remove evidence I doubt, but I would imagine that was just bluster, I think he's losing it..
If Both him and Pence get Impeached, what happens, a new Election? Who runs the country in the meantime?
And has it been Trump who has been the sole architect of his own downfall...
Seems that way to me
I guess the answer to the question can a businessman with no political experience run America would be no.
Nanook wrote:Maybe they were referring to Trump's purported recordings, and belatedly realized that confirming those recordings wouldn't be a good thing for their fair-haired buddy.
I remember watching something about the Oval Office being set up to record meetings if a president chose to.Nanook wrote:Maybe they were referring to Trump's purported recordings, and belatedly realized that confirming those recordings wouldn't be a good thing for their fair-haired buddy.
Whether he could record the meetings then safely delete the recordings to remove evidence I doubt, but I would imagine that was just bluster, I think he's losing it..
If Both him and Pence get Impeached, what happens, a new Election? Who runs the country in the meantime?
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
Indeed, He CAN declassify whatever he wants it might not however be exactly smart to do so.Ketraar wrote:Santi you are missing the point. No one is disputing the legality of the action. Its at least a betrayal of trust to those that shared information on the principle it to not get shared. Anyone is free to break agreements, just dont expect people to agree to stuff in future, thats what felter is saying.
I used to be in a job where I handled such information. The definitions of each classification were based around the potential damage arising from the information leaking. The gist of the definition of "Top Secret" is captured quite nicely by the Wikipedia quote below (although official version had more detail).
So those are the types of consequences Trumps little boast will result in."Liable to cause considerable loss of life, international diplomatic incidents, or severely impact ongoing intelligence operations."
I'm pretty sure that what prompted those extraordinary tweets when he essentially admitted it was that someone probably took him to one side and said "Don't worry Mr President you've done nothing illegal, you can declassify whatever you want, they won't be able to land you in court with this"
Emboldened Trump takes to Twitter to boast of his unassailablity.
Regardless, he just showed the most blatant and flagrant disregard for THE cardinal inviolable rule of intelligence sharing. I guarantee you that every intelligence agency in the world that deals with the US now regards Mr Trump (and by extension the entire US intelligence system) as a liability and are planning to severely restrict intelligence sharing as a result (they probably already did, but it will now be stepped up).
The cleverer ones are probably trying to devise methods of potentially using Mr Motor Mouth to their own advantage, perhaps to disseminate disinformation.
"Shoot for the Moon. If you miss, you'll end up co-orbiting the Sun alongside Earth, living out your days alone in the void within sight of the lush, welcoming home you left behind." - XKCD
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Impeachment does not depend on what Trump has done. By now he's probably racked up plenty of excuses (strong and weak) for enemies to impeach him.
The question, instead, is how large a group can see impeachment as within their narrow self-interests. At this stage, the Democrats are in too great disarray, and the Republicans (for now) are better served with him in place.
The question, instead, is how large a group can see impeachment as within their narrow self-interests. At this stage, the Democrats are in too great disarray, and the Republicans (for now) are better served with him in place.
Morkonan wrote:What really happened isn't as exciting. Putin flexed his left thigh during his morning ride on a flying bear, right after beating fifty Judo blackbelts, which he does upon rising every morning. (Not that Putin sleeps, it's just that he doesn't want to make others feel inadequate.)
Looking at what's on the US news, I think Trump is about to go into meltdown even without Impeachment.
70 years is fairly old (well it is for some people), and he's not exactly flexible of mind, is he.
70 years is fairly old (well it is for some people), and he's not exactly flexible of mind, is he.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli
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This could very well be the beginning of the end for Trump, now that an investigator has been appointed, his founding will start to drip, and this might make people in congress start to distance themselves from Trump. And with US midterm elections coming up. Trump might start to lose even more support.
It could very well spiral after that point.
It could very well spiral after that point.
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A thing to note with Impeachment.Usenko wrote:Impeachment does not depend on what Trump has done. By now he's probably racked up plenty of excuses (strong and weak) for enemies to impeach him.
The question, instead, is how large a group can see impeachment as within their narrow self-interests. At this stage, the Democrats are in too great disarray, and the Republicans (for now) are better served with him in place.
No President has EVER been impeached.
Nixon probably would have been but jumped before he was pushed. In both the other cases (Bill Clinton and Andrew Johnson) the result of the attempted impeachment was entirely predicable if you just split the votes purely down party lines . . . . which was with a few wiggles almost exactly how they played out.
Currently the Republicans control both the House and the Senate, if Trump (a Republican President) was impeached under such circumstances. . . . . well wow, it would certainly make history and it would make him literally the worst President the US has EVER had by a frankly huge margin.
"Shoot for the Moon. If you miss, you'll end up co-orbiting the Sun alongside Earth, living out your days alone in the void within sight of the lush, welcoming home you left behind." - XKCD
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Ha, they keep trying to pull the same "Fake News" trick, only to have it collapse within hours. Will they never learn?
WaPo: "You said this"
GoP: “That never happened.”
WaPo: "We have a recording"
GoP: "Oh in that case. . . . ummmm it was joke!"
Ha, they keep trying to pull the same "Fake News" trick, only to have it collapse within hours. Will they never learn?
WaPo: "You said this"
GoP: “That never happened.”
WaPo: "We have a recording"
GoP: "Oh in that case. . . . ummmm it was joke!"
"Shoot for the Moon. If you miss, you'll end up co-orbiting the Sun alongside Earth, living out your days alone in the void within sight of the lush, welcoming home you left behind." - XKCD
About this Fake News thing...
Trouble is, as credible as they try to make themselves seem, the US mainstream press seem to have mostly become an entertainment service first and a news service second.
As an entertainment service, thet are of course beholding to advertisers and sponsors, so the truth has taken a backseat for many of them for a long time, in some cases far too long.
This doesn't exactly help their credibility. Obviously I'm generalising. I've seen some very good news services, but I've seen some godawful ones too.
But the godawful ones don't seem to realise how bad they are, and still think they are the good news services they once were.
So these are the people reporting on the President, and they don't like him shouting out Fake News! all the time.
But exactly how wrong is he on that? Maybe on specific stories he's wrong, but they do spout a lot of sponsored garbage, so that's pretty much fake news.
Trouble is, as credible as they try to make themselves seem, the US mainstream press seem to have mostly become an entertainment service first and a news service second.
As an entertainment service, thet are of course beholding to advertisers and sponsors, so the truth has taken a backseat for many of them for a long time, in some cases far too long.
This doesn't exactly help their credibility. Obviously I'm generalising. I've seen some very good news services, but I've seen some godawful ones too.
But the godawful ones don't seem to realise how bad they are, and still think they are the good news services they once were.
So these are the people reporting on the President, and they don't like him shouting out Fake News! all the time.
But exactly how wrong is he on that? Maybe on specific stories he's wrong, but they do spout a lot of sponsored garbage, so that's pretty much fake news.
If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared. ... Niccolò Machiavelli