[X3AP] Wraith Missile Effectiveness

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joe15000
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[X3AP] Wraith Missile Effectiveness

Post by joe15000 » Sat, 30. Apr 16, 00:16

Hi,

I am struggling a bit with the wraith missile.

I am new to X3, I finished the X3 TC plot recently and now finished several plots in X3AP to get to the poisoned paranid start.

After finishing this, I built up my small empire with the Hyperion and finally was able to build a nice wraith/typhoon/wasp complex.

Then I went to Xenon sector 347 to finally test my Hyperion Vanguard with the Wraith missile against Qs and Ks.

Holy shit was I disappointed. I previously read in forums, in the Wiki and Reddit that only "a few" wraith missiles are enough to deal with Qs and Ks.

Someone wrote he stayed at 10k range and used 5 wraith missiles to take out a Q.

Now either I am doing something completely wrong, or the game has been seriously rebalanced since then but to take out a Q I need between 20 and 40 wraith missiles. For a K, I need close to 100.

With the Q I noticed that it shoots down a lot of the warheads, but still.

There was a group of 4 Qs, a K and some Js that I just didn't have enough missiles to deal with. I read before that with the Hyp Vang. and Wraith/Typhoon missiles you can easily take out a Xenon sector - this appears false however.

Can anyone enlighten me on where this discrepancy between every online post and my game reality comes from? (and yes, I am well within range for the missiles, mostly around 10km distance when I fire wraith salvos - or typhoon which seem to be almost pointless against Qs or Ks).

Thanks!
Joe

RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 30. Apr 16, 01:59

OK, none of the above is answering the OP's question, which seems to be "how to use Wraiths effectively?"

The Wraiths ARE tricky to use, but they are extremely powerful - I have had great success with these, in the past.

First off, when firing any missile at a target that has turrets, it's generally best to attack from the side without turrets, when there is one, as long as it doesn't involve large angular displacement ie. the target doesn't end up crossing the path of the missiles, as they will then have to turn to keep a track, and some can't turn fast enough. With Qs, it's most effective to shoot them head-on, and then (this is quite important) to prevent the Q from veering off to chase you by keeping along its longitudinal axis - ie. stay directly in front of it (feel free to turn around and fly directly away, to stay out of its firing range.) With Js and Ks, you don't have this option, as these ships have turrets all around, but there IS something you can do.

Stacking missiles: If your ship can fly at or close to the speed of its missiles (this is where the Hyperion is useful with Wraiths, as it can match the Wraiths' speed), then you can stack tons of them on top of each other by flying at that speed. The Wraiths' disadvantage is the quite long reload time (4secs? iirc), but doing it this way means you can shorten or eliminate the gap between them, which overwhelms any point-defence, especially with swarms missiles like the Wraith. Now, Wraiths have actually quite a long effective range (about 50km), which means you can start this from quite a distance away, and stack more or less as many as you like before you have to turn around to stay out of range.

To improve the odds with any missile (be it single-warhead or swarm), you can also add smaller swarm missiles to distract point-defence. Wasps are great for this use. On larger ships, they won't draw MDMosquitoes (in AP, the ship's computer only fires MDMs at missiles that are deemed a threat), but they will still draw turret fire. Typhoons mixed in both add more damage, and they acts as decoys to protect the larger-payload Wraith warheads. Typhoons are also great for taking down enemy corvettes quickly.

Give this a try, I think you'll find your success rate increases.

Good hunting! :)
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joe15000
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Post by joe15000 » Sat, 30. Apr 16, 03:19

Hey Raven.myst, thank you for those tips, they are exactly what I was looking for!

I had a feeling I am probably just doing it wrong. I will give this a try and learn to do that.

But just looking at the numbers 5 wraiths for a Q seem not enough, even when done right? But I could be wrong.

Thanks again for the quick and helpful answers!

@AleksMain - thanks for taking the time to answer, I have done all of those, I was wondering about the wraith missile specifically. But good advice for any player - my flail Cobra was fun in TC :twisted:

ancienthighway
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Post by ancienthighway » Sat, 30. Apr 16, 03:46

Don't underestimate the power of the drones for distracting turrets. The Mk I is cheap, fast, and like a swarm of gnats can really attract attention.

RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 30. Apr 16, 04:15

ancienthighway wrote:Don't underestimate the power of the drones for distracting turrets. The Mk I is cheap, fast, and like a swarm of gnats can really attract attention.
Ah yes, very good point! In fact, their IS downfall when used in large numbers (constant collision avoidance) makes them even harder for turrets to hit - VERY effective.

@Joe15000: You're very welcome :) Regarding specific numbers (ie. whether 5 is really enough for a Q, I'm not sure but I suspect you're right - see, in AP ship's hulls have been buffed - the bigger the ship, the bigger the buff (none for M5s, a little for M3s, quite a bit for freighters and 'vettes, and a shipload for capital ships!) so that changes figures that people may have calculated based on TC stats.

Happy hunting!
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Jimmy C
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Post by Jimmy C » Sat, 30. Apr 16, 07:18

It helps to give your target's turrets something to shot at to keep them pointed away from your wraith missiles. A while ago, I found that your own ship makes a convinient distraction for just this occasion. Fire off the Wraith, then veer to the side (after the swarm has passed in front of you, so you don't run into a warhead) and keep shooting at the target.
Beware of fratricide. A single Wraith warhead being intercepted is often enough to set off the entire swarm shortly after launch. That's often enough to heavily damage, even destroy, a fully shielded Hyperion.

fireanddream
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Post by fireanddream » Wed, 4. May 16, 05:23

For the Q specifically I thought it'd be more efficient to just hide in its blind spots and fire wraith from there.

Other than that I kinda feel wraith is horrible against anything smaller than an m1/2, unless you really determine to go hyperion vs. the world. Only time I found wraith dangerous is a dying osaka suddenly became to pump them out like no tomorrow 2km from my own m2.

But back to your question, how to use warith efficiently?
You won't use them on terran capitals as I guarantee their launching tubes will be busy with MDM in AP.
The idea of having a squad of wraith-ing hyperion is charming, but ultimately no, autopilot is too stupid for that.
If you don't mind losing flat credits, charging & launching is the way to go. But prepare to have 30% of the missiles shot down by those fat anticapital weapon projectiles.

The best way is probably have something to occupy your target while you do the charging & launching yourself.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Wed, 4. May 16, 06:03

fireanddream wrote: Other than that I kinda feel wraith is horrible against anything smaller than an m1/2
True - smaller ships are too, well, small ie. harder targets, and too nimble - Wraiths are great vs. destroyers and even carriers, but really lack the maneuverability to hunt down even most M7s (except, perhaps, M7Ms - though there are more efficient things to do to THEM ;) ) and so are likely to be doomed to fly around in wide curves until the pop spectacularly but uselessly.
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shanrak
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Post by shanrak » Wed, 4. May 16, 06:29

The wraith missile has HORRIBLE turning speed. You should only use it against m1/2 and some m7s. So make sure you aim it properly so it hits on the first pass. If it misses then it probably will expire before it turns around for another attempt.

My favorite trick with the wraith missile is to launch it from the Hyperion vanguard. It's top speed is very similar to the wraith missile speed so you can easily stack a few together.

I typically start out 15-20 k from my target. Then I fly directly at it or slightly in front of it and start launching wraith missiles. After I launch enough to kill the ship (I always launch an extra for overkill) I break off and let the wraith do it's thing.

Against highly shielded m2s you may need multiple runs.

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Post by JJRSC » Thu, 5. May 16, 16:52

FWIW, my experience with the Wraith is that it's something you really need to experiment with to see how it works best for you. By that I mean the wraith has a huge upside (insanely powerful, good range) but a pretty substantial downside (not maneuverable, very slow rate of fire, etc.) so you need to play with it a little bit to see how to make it effective for your style of play - it's easy to miss with it if it's not used properly, but when it connects, WOW, it is damn impressive. You kind of have to find the situations where it has the best chance to connect with the target, because it will excel in some situations but whiff badly in others.

For instance, for me, (also, my experience is in TC, so it will be a little different than what you experience in AP, but hopefully helpful) I rarely bother to use it on Qs. Qs are INSANELY agile for an M7 and can dance around them pretty easily. I've found them very effective against Carracks and Akureis.

They do work well against Ks and Js (and M1s and M2s in general)... they can't evade them and if they are shooting down your wraiths, that means you need to launch more of them or mix them up, as was mentioned earlier, with Typhoons or Wasps or Poltergeists or whatever to distract the target's guns.

If I'm invading a Xenon Sector (granted, I'm doing this in an Osaka, not a Hyperion) and I see a K, a J, and a three or four Qs coming my way that I may have to engage at the same time (not optimal) I'll pop some wraiths at the K and J to soften them up and distract them (if not take them out completely) while I take care of the Qs.

Which brings me to another use for them... even if they don't connect, they make a great distraction. Enemy ships freak out when they see you've launched a wraith at them. Again, if I'm surrounded by capitals in a Xenon Sector and am bobbing and weaving for my life, I'll start launching wraiths at my attackers as fast as I can (which, granted, is not very fast) - even if I just launch two or three at a K or Q, it will break off its attack to evade or shoot down my missles - giving me a chance to take out its comrades with my guns.

Also, another ship is easy pickings for your guns if it's putting all of its effort into avoiding/shooting the wraiths you launched at it.

And, occasionally, you can just catch a Q napping. If it's across the sector and it doesn't know you're there yet (e.g., you're in Black Hole Sun and there's a Q shooting up stations or just flying across the sctor in search of prey) and you launch some wraiths at it, it might not notice until it actually gets hit... even if you launch your missiles head on from a distance. Somtimes, it's still stunned enough that the rest will hit also - and scratch one Q.

Those are my observations of the Wraith... granted they are in TC, so take with as much salt as you deem appropriate. I've never flown the Hyperion so I can't offer any insight on the Hyperion "Wraith-Stacking/Bombing tactic", although I have read it's very effective if done properly.

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 5. May 16, 19:39

Oh, incidentally, there's another target type that Wraiths aren't bad against: stations. They struggle to get out the way :P However, I tend to avoid using missiles on stations, as I find it's a waste - now, if stations in X3 had guns to shoot back at you, thus putting up a fight and introducing a time element, that would be a different story; however, as it stands, I prefer to just park and pelt them with anti-capital weapons. One exception is the Pirate Base: if for some reason you want or need to take one out (this never happens with me except in that one mission at the end of the HQ plot, as I treasure my pirate relations too much, but still...), then a single Wraith (munition, not warhead) will take it out, IIRC.
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Paladin-Solo
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Post by Paladin-Solo » Fri, 13. May 16, 21:49

Get the targets attention, jump to furthest gate, drive straight at the target ship and launch enough missiles that it will kill the target, then throttle down and sit and wait. Anything without front turrets won't even shoot, and even against the front turrets of M1/2s your missiles will get through because theres a delay between targeting missiles.

The wraith is also pretty effective against pirate fighter groups flying in formation where they're usually moving pretty slowly and the spread on the wraith is wide enough that different fighters turrets will target the missiles as they pass detonating and killing the entire group with splash damage.

I don't recommend using them in inhabited sectors as the splash can get you in all sorts of trouble when you kill the sector police or military ships.

hisazul
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Post by hisazul » Sat, 14. May 16, 04:56

Too much internet info on wraiths is from pre-AP days, the days of "dead as soon as your shields dropped" also missiles aren't as free to do what ever they want in AP they got shot a fair bit more often in AP so be aware of that. Besides that everything got covered already, their use is pretty much tied to how you fly and shoot missiles more then some general rule. I boost I a lot... I mean A LOT... means it's really hard for me to shoot them and not have them miss their target by 20 km >_<
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” - Albert Einstein

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