Help with Space fuel complex and selling it!!!

[Zfast4y0u]

Hello guys,i have one question about OK trade script and complexes -.-

i have made cloosed loop space fuel complex (20 space fuel's)in unknown sector right from montalaar.now i sighned 4 ships to complex to be their homebase and i use OK trade script for em to sell space fuel in universe (complex is closed for NPC traders) but i see always my ships go and sell space fuel like 3-4 sectors away but they sell like just 16 space fuel or 30...my question is why they dont fill their cargo space and have several pit stops to sell???like this how it is now they go sell 16 space fuel,then return to complex,take again some random small amount and so on in circle..and i know for a fact there are pirate bases/military complexes out there that are totaly emptu with space fuel....in order to sell more then i produce i would need to asign like 20-30 ships to complex and that beats its purpose damn it..this is drawing me nuts..any help would be great since the more ships i have trading with OK trade script my game becomes slower and slower -.-

[ajax34i]

You will have to ask OK trade script questions in the OK Trader thread. I have no clue how that script works.

Problem with spacefuel is that it is illegal. Thus you cannot allow your trade ships to enter empire space, because it will get scanned and killed.

To solve the problem I used CLS trade script from the bonus pack. This lets you specify the full route for a ship: load 600 spacefuel, undock, then go here and sell 300, then go here and sell another 300, then refuel here, then come back. So you have full control over where it goes.

You have to give it energy cells for refuel. Or you can use the few solar power plants in pirate space only. And you can only sell to pirates. Because if you try to sell to Argon or any other empire space, you will get killed.

[astreus]

Simply you dont need to sell active. No risk. Just feed your complex with e-cells and what else you need, then set up a accepted price (find out), and after short time they all come and buy.
If the price is ok, a permanent flow of ships (courier & TS) will approach your station, would buy more than you could produce.

[Zfast4y0u]

i understand that if i open my complex for NPC ships to buy my stuff they will buy like 2000 space fuel or more at once,i know i have seen it BUT why would i sell 1 space fuel to em for like 728 CR when i can use my ship and sell to some station for 1250..i lose a lot of profit like that..almost half

the CLS way you discribed above ,i know for it BUT it is annoying to program every single ship to do some basic things + i need to level up em first and that is MOST ANNOYING thing in the game,that why i dont use it..i want more automated process >_> simply tell trader go sell my stuff and he should sell it..all my ships have jump drives so idk whats the problem..if i delete homebase from my ship,and i load him with space fuel and then tell him go trade with OK script then he is out with full cargo and he sells and makes more pit stops.this is working but i dont wanna be obligated to check every single complex of mine is it full with products and then load stuff and then tell ship go sell..i would like to set em once to do their job and never again think about it..this is annoying -.-

[Timsup2nothin]

You don't actually need to level em up.

The places that buy space fuel in race space are docks. You can sell to them in small quantities at max price endlessly and the price won't change. A fast ship (I use discoverers) with two waypoints (a load and a sell) flying back and forth is fast enough to avoid the cops (generally) and small enough that when they don't the lost load is a minor expense. Assign as many as you can without filling each buyer. You can use save and load route to bang these out.

The big buyers, like Yaki weapon fabs or pirate weapon fabs are in pirate space so patrols aren't a problem. One CLS freighter with a jump drive and a logistician can service them ALL. Use "generate waypoints," range 50, sell spacefuel price 1240. It will sit at your complex waiting and any time some fab uses up all their spacefuel it will jump there to sell it. Add a refuel and a load spacefuel to get it back to your complex to resume waiting. Make sure you set it for a sufficient amount of fuel so it doesn't jump off and have to straggle back.

[Nanook]

i understand that if i open my complex for NPC ships to buy my stuff they will buy like 2000 space fuel or more at once,i know i have seen it BUT why would i sell 1 space fuel to em for like 728 CR when i can use my ship and sell to some station for 1250..i lose a lot of profit like that..almost half...

You won't sell very much at full price because there aren't many stations that will buy it for that. You'll soon saturate the market that way. Besides, there's no need to get greedy like a Teladi , just set the price at Average -1 and you'll make mountains of credits. And at no risk to you or your ships.

[jlehtone]

i understand that if i open my complex for NPC ships to buy my stuff they will buy like 2000 space fuel or more at once,i know i have seen it BUT why would i sell 1 space fuel to em for like 728 CR when i can use my ship and sell to some station for 1250..i lose a lot of profit like that..almost half

To sell 16 @ 1250cr (==20k)
or 2000 @ 728cr (==1456k)


Well, everyone is free* to compute lost profitss differently.



*On my stations there is a tax for everthing that is free

[Timsup2nothin]

i understand that if i open my complex for NPC ships to buy my stuff they will buy like 2000 space fuel or more at once,i know i have seen it BUT why would i sell 1 space fuel to em for like 728 CR when i can use my ship and sell to some station for 1250..i lose a lot of profit like that..almost half

To sell 16 @ 1250cr (==20k)
or 2000 @ 728cr (==1456k)


Well, everyone is free* to compute lost profitss differently.



*On my stations there is a tax for everthing that is free

If you can find five Yaki/Pirate weapons fabs and you take it upon yourself to keep them supplied with ore and energy (profitable) and haul off their products any time they get filled up (also profitable) they will consume the entire output of an L size distillery at max price. A swarm of gnats (discoverers) selling to pirate bases and trading stations in race space can easily consume the entire output of an M size distillery at max price...and if you are diligent two M size... and sometimes even a second L distillery. Any excess is easily bled off at three or four times max price just by grabbing a "deliver me some space fuel" mission every couple days.

[jlehtone]

If you can find five Yaki/Pirate weapons fabs and you take it upon yourself to keep them supplied with ore and energy (profitable) and haul off their products any time they get filled up (also profitable) they will consume the entire output of an L size distillery at max price. A swarm of gnats (discoverers) selling to pirate bases and trading stations in race space can easily consume the entire output of an M size distillery at max price...and if you are diligent two M size... and sometimes even a second L distillery. Any excess is easily bled off at three or four times max price just by grabbing a "deliver me some space fuel" mission every couple days.

That is true; a different way to count the "lost creditss".

It is different, because it includes non-credit side-costs:

• Find and befriend the big sinks
• Create a focused supply fleet for them
• Swarm coordination
• Personal mission hauling

Did the OP describe some of that as "annoying"?


I can and will say nothing about the personally-never-heard-of script, because it has its own thread in the S&M Forum. However, I do point out that the CAG/CLS/Pilot Union is a script too and the "level" of such pilot is a mere attribute that a probably can be adjusted (aka bumbed to max) with a one-liner helper script.

How does one create such helper script that "eliminates the most annoying aspect of the game"? One goes to the S&M Forum, reads, learns, etc.

[Zfast4y0u]

i simply cant bother with CAG,that script annoy me way too much >_>

i have simply put my complex for NPC to buy my space fuel.now i have one more question, is there any script that allows me to put software in my own EQ dock?

i like to equip my ships with all software that is in the game cause i never know for what i need to use my ships for and also annoying part is this softwares are devided throughout universe...sometime i buy lots of ships of some sort and its real pain in the a&& to equip em..

[Timsup2nothin]

i simply cant bother with CAG,that script annoy me way too much >_>

i have simply put my complex for NPC to buy my space fuel.now i have one more question, is there any script that allows me to put software in my own EQ dock?

i like to equip my ships with all software that is in the game cause i never know for what i need to use my ships for and also annoying part is this softwares are devided throughout universe...sometime i buy lots of ships of some sort and its real pain in the a&& to equip em..

Go to the S&M forum and ask this question and you will be given lots of good choices. I don't know any, myself, but I'm sure there are plenty.

[Timsup2nothin]

That is true; a different way to count the "lost creditss".

It is different, because it includes non-credit side-costs:

• Find and befriend the big sinks
• Create a focused supply fleet for them
• Swarm coordination
• Personal mission hauling

No question. I make up for the "effort costs" there by just never building the complex in the first place. I just buy the space fuel using a CLS freighter that never leaves the distillery. Takes half a minute to set up and I don't have to fool around with all that complex building stuff, which I find annoying.

[Zfast4y0u]

you have no idea how annoying it is to build it and in the end its same having few big complexes OR really big trade fleet,my problem is my pc cant handle so many trade ships with OK trade script running =) thats why i try complex thing

i have found a lot of helpful scripts out there,it will make my life easy now

[Triaxx2]

I have to ask why CAG bothers you. I mean, it's the single most fire and forget script in the game. Hire pilot, assign to station, leave. Unless of course it's because it loads on 'non-essentials', like missiles and fighter drones which make it more survivable than vanilla.

Frankly, stations are not the fastest way to make profits, but you're also going to find that all automated traders that are not manually run, or using CLS waypoints can only sell to stations that have the item as an existing ware. So the likely issue, and this one would occur whether using CAG's or OK traders, is that the stations are all nearly completely full, and thus the ship can only sell a certain amount, and not an entire cargo load. If there's more room, watch the station remotely and see how much it goes down by. Chances are it's got room for exactly that small amount when your trader heads for it, and then it's sold more by the time it gets there, but the ship isn't going to go back and pick up more until it's completed it's current delivery.

The only way to move more product continuously, is station stocks. Tim calls it trapping, but either way, it's basically park a TS or TL if it can, and use CLS to move Spacefuel to the docked ship. The Docked ship is nothing but a CLS that sits and constantly tries to sell fuel.

[Zfast4y0u]

CAG bothers me same as trade comand software mk3,its not full automated from start.in trade mk3 you have first sector trade,now u must find first self sufficient sector for him to lvl up at all..after that universe trade was more or less fine..now in CAG what annoy me i must program him where to go what to pick etc and he is limited to only that and if i assign him to COMPLEX at start it wont work cause stupid pilot cant sell on apprentice lvl >_< and my complex need to buy a silicon a bit+sell space fuel,anyway i think CAG behaves same as OK trade script in my case,they both pick some small random amount of space fuel (my complex end product) and go refill some pirate station or other NPC that buys space fuel INSTEAD going right of omicorn lyrae in pirate sector and unload 160 space fuel there for example..or any other station that is emptu (YAKI sector as example they need space fuel urgent but my OK trader never jump there to sell) they always spin around montlaar and sector right from my unknown sector,i forgot its name now >_> .normally when i set my complex to sell something 50 systems away that should reach almost everywhere or im missing something here ?

btw i was hoping my 22 space fuel factories +other supporting ones would make more profit since i invested like 300mil CR in it..its only like 5mil/h >_< when i had better PC in past (long story) i had 160 trade ships,now they were bringing me some $$$$ fast and here i suffer like gipsy atm xD

[Triaxx2]

Two suggestions: First, a L1 CAG doesn't need to be told what to buy, and while it can only buy, it's perfectly fine, because Fuel will auto-sell well enough on it's own. On the other hand, until they level up, you don't pay them anything.

The other suggestion, is to hire your CAG/CLS's at Herron's Nebula Trading Station. They'll usually start at higher than level one, all the way up to the first level they can use a jump drive. That skips the early level issues entirely.

[RAVEN.myst]

You won't sell very much at full price because there aren't many stations that will buy it for that. You'll soon saturate the market that way.

^ This

I recently experimented with a spacefuel-financed (-soaked? ) character, and I found that the universal market for the stuff saturates pretty quickly - on a LOT fewer distilleries than you have, in fact. Basically there's at any given time a handful of pirate stations (which periodically get blown up and respawn somewhere new, meaning that you need to find them for your export traders to know where to sell to) some of these buy at max-price, and some only at average; a handful of pirate weapons factories (PBG and IBL), which use it as a primary resource, meaning its price slides according to demand - problem here is that these factories fill up with product and stop buying resources, so you need to periodically empty them (you can make some extra profit reselling those PBGs and IBLs if bought at or near min-price, but it's an extra layer of "annoyance", which you are apparently allergic to); if playing AP, you also have 4 marine training barracks that buy SF as a secondary resource, which means it's on a demand-based sliding scale, but narrower (and less lucrative) than that for primary resources.

I found that it only took something like (iIrc) 4x Space Fuel Distillery L to solidly outpace the universe's demand for SF, even with periodic checks of the PBG and IBL forges - the simple fact of the matter is, you're way overproducing. However, don't despair - others have already mentioned the solution: open your distillery-plex to visiting traders while keeping up your active exports. You can activate automated pricing, setting it to minimum at average-1 (727, iIrc?), and maximum to maximum. This means that while your stocks are below half-full, NPCs won't come and empty you at average, leaving you with stock to export at good prices. (Added bonus: sometimes a trader will start coming to you while your price is low, get beaten there by another trader that lowers your stock level and thus raises your price, but the original trader's "buy" order is already in effect, so it will still buy from you at the higher price - this doesn't happen consistently, but from time to time.)

To briefly go back to something: as I mentioned, I was experimenting with a character founded on bootlegging (my distillery was in Farnham's Legend, branded as Farnham's Gold and this was in fact my second such experiment, with identical results), and my conclusion was that while it can be adequate for the late-early game, it is not enough in the long run, nowhere near, so building a character entirely on this product (or any other single product, really) is sadly not viable (for a variety of reasons, not only because of the market limits.)

[Zfast4y0u]

i come to same conclusion myself,still thanks pointing it out i was thinking to enable automatic prising but again was annoyed to bother with it to figure out how it actually works in player complex (gonna do it now)

what do you think about vast solar power plant complex? like 20x solar power plant XL with all other stations to make it self sufficient. (well beside silicon -.-)


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[Jonzac]

Personally I buy about 10 Kestrals and have them sell the drugs. Small amounts fit the game mechanics and I like the idea of souped-up drug runner outrunning the police

[RAVEN.myst]

what do you think about vast solar power plant complex? like 20x solar power plant XL with all other stations to make it self sufficient. (well beside silicon -.-)

Howdy

I try to avoid saying "do this" or "don't do this" - firstly, how I like to do stuff and how you like to may differ significantly, in which case my advice would be bad. Secondly, such binary pronouncements seem to almost inevitably invite trolls who think they know more than they actually do So instead, I'll tell you what/how I would do stuff, and let you decide whether you like it or not.

First off, you're right (imo) to be asking about E-Cells, because they are crucial - the beauty of ECs is that everyone needs them, the problem with ECs is that everyone needs them. It's important to know that they are not extremely profitable, but not too bad. Rather, the way I play, they are used to stimulate my other businesses. In most of my TC/AP games, I make my biggest margins on Ore (which has a very wide gap between minimum and maximum price, and is available at/near minimum consistently, and can be sold for near max consistently). My largest trade by volume (and probably yielding similar income to Ore, eventually) is in the various foods (and their agricultural raw materials.) I do this by means of MANY CAG traders operating from a trading dock, usually The Hub (though occasionally I do other tricky things). What eventually ends up happening is that my ore (and silicon) and food customers are sitting flush with those, but are waiting on ECs, so it's time to supply them with the energy they crave (well, usually I actually develop ore, foods, and energy in parallel, but it's easier to explain this way.) My energy business certainly makes some direct profits of its own, but they are tiny compared to my other trading - the main benefit is that "lubricating" the economy with energy stimulates demand for my true cash-cows. Furthermore, supplying my suppliers with energy also results in the stuff I buy (ore and foods) becoming more abundant and thus cheaper.

The way I normally handle EC distribution is a small 'plex consisting of 2x SPP-XL, and a combination of CAG and CLS traders (yes, I know you're not too keen on these - sorry.) The SPPs themselves produce some ECs, which is fine, but the bulk of my stock is actually bought up by a constantly growing number of CLS2 traders buying from all existing NPC SPPs at 12 per unit - they buy it and drop it off at my power complex, and from there my CAGs export them for 18-19 each (when I start getting to 17 per unit, I know that I'm approaching the point where my supply is overtaking universal demand, and so it's time to pause or at least slow growing the operation unless I am able to significantly grow the market, which I am constantly doing by taking on station build missions.)

The above trick also works really well with ore, and quite well with foods (but since each food is a smaller market, it's often not worth the hassle.) For example, you can plex together 2 large ore mines, and have CLS2s buying up ore at 50 which your CAGs will sell at 160-200. You can combine both by plexing together s large ore mine and a SPP, and do both wares this way, but each ware's storage will be smaller, which is not optimal. You can even, while operating on a small scale, use just an ore mine on its own, but you will quickly grow to the point where you need to plex it, for two reasons: the complex hub has more docking ports, which you need to avoid (potentially terminal) traffic jams of your freighters, and when plexed together the storage capacities are aggregated, which helps with maintaining good stock levels.

An important factor is that trading is a lot more lucrative than manufacturing, because with manufacture you are waiting on your factory's production rate - this limits the rate at which you produce and therefore sell (you can add as many freighters as you like, but once they exceed your production capacity, they will simply be spending time idling.) However, with trade, this is not a factor - your merchant finds The Thing for cheap, buys it, and takes and sells it to the customer who is offering the best price. As soon as it's done, it gets on with the next trade. This isn't to say that there's no place for manufacturing - for example, if a particular race's food production is too low, it's a good idea to help them out and both make money doing it and help your other operations in the process; or, a very common one, if you use a particular type of missile or ammo (or even laser) that you simply can't get enough of, make your own (missile plexes, especially for Tomahawks/Phantoms, Hammers/Shadows, and Flails/Ghouls, are very popular among players.)

Right, so as I started off with, those are just some thoughts on how I do things - some of it may suit you and some of it not, or perhaps none of it - who knows?