How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

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manniac
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How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by manniac » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 09:25

Started an X3:AP game as poisoned paranid, got my Hyperion and now I'm in process of training and deploying Drake UT's

I have a problem, I need loads of EBC's and too lazy to manually or remote control buy them, so I figured I'd try "buy ware for best price" command.

Got a fast ship, home-based it to my Hyperion, gave it all required upgrades (including mk2 trade) ... and command is grayed out.

Does it work only if the ship is actually home-based to a station, NOT to a ship?

Also I have a fuzzy recollection from long ago, if a ship is home based to a station, it can only "buy ware for best price" the wares that the station actually needs/sells ?

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated !

P.S. Can I make it work perhaps using CLS ? I never used it before, just installed the bonus package.
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Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by TheDeliveryMan » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 11:50

manniac wrote: P.S. Can I make it work perhaps using CLS ? I never used it before, just installed the bonus package.
Yes, CLS2 would be my prefered tool for these kinds of tasks.

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Post by manniac » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 12:38

Care to go into detail a little bit? As I said, I never used it before. What would be the requirements, besides buying the software obviously ?
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Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by pjknibbs » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 13:01

manniac wrote: Does it work only if the ship is actually home-based to a station, NOT to a ship?
That's the case, yes. That command is designed for supply ships for stations, not a general catch-all buy command. There *are* commands that are aimed at "free traders" which you could use (Remote Best Buy and Remote Best Sell), but it's been a while since I played the game so I can't remember how to use them, sorry!

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Post by TheDeliveryMan » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 14:12

manniac wrote:Care to go into detail a little bit? As I said, I never used it before. What would be the requirements, besides buying the software obviously ?
Right now I don't have time to go into too much detail.

- equip an M5 with Navigation Command Software and CLS2
- pick an area that has one or more EBC producers and docks selling EBC. Safe routes between these stations are important. In my universe I would pick the Two Grand / Profit Center Alpha area with two producers and one EQ Dock.
- send the M5 to a station in the area and start External Commodity Logistics from the command console
- enter the waypoints. In my case the waypoint list would look like:

Code: Select all

  1. Fly to EQ Dock in Two Grand
      Buy <max amount the EQ dock can stock> EBC for average price
  2. EBC Factory in Two Grand
      Buy 8 EBC for average price
  3. EBC Factory in Profit Center Alpha
      Buy 8 EBC for average price
- you may need to set the minimum amount on collection to 0%
- Start External Commodity Logistics

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Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 14:20

Don't forget to look in the instruction notes for the various Bonus Pack facilities that you enabled, they can be found in:
Drive:\Steam\steamapps\common\x3 terran conflict\addon\Documents\X3AP-Bonuspackage_Readme-English.pdf
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MrFiction
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Post by MrFiction » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 16:49

I usually have a CLS2 flying around buying Thunderstorm missiles and one or two buying PPC lasers or something like that.

Sometimes I forget and find out it's been idling for a while with a few hundred missiles in its cargo because it's full

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Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by AleksMain » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 19:57

Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Below is text in spoiler tags. Select text to see it.

Here is answer for question of current thread for some weapons:
Spoiler
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to buy unlimited quantity of weapons, existing in the Equipment Dock, which support Shipyard in the same sector, buy as many cheapest TS ships as necessary from this Shipyard, equipping them with necessary for you weapons, then take weapons from those ships and sell those ships (for example, buy 10 TS equipped with 2 PPC each and get 20 PPC total). Repeat process as many times as necessary for you.
I never used CLS or CLS2 to buy weapons.

P.S.
TS - Transport class ship
PPC - Photon Pulse Cannon

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Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 20:43

You need a logistician pilot and CLS 2. Use generate waypoints, range 50, sell, weapon of choice, average price, cargo space max. This will produce a waypoint for every dock that carries the weapon. Edit them to buys instead of sells. Then use generate waypoints again, but feed it "buy" instead of "sell." This will generate a waypoint for every factory that produces the weapons.

Add an unload point (probably a TL) and a refuel point (probably the same TL). Make sure the ship has at least enough jump fuel to get halfway across the universe and back.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

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Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by manniac » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 21:26

AleksMain wrote:Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?
Spoiler
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to buy unlimited quantity of weapons, existing in the Equipment Dock, which support Shipyard in the same sector, buy as many cheapest TS ships as necessary from this Shipyard, equipping them with necessary for you weapons, then take weapons from those ships and sell those ships (for example, buy 10 TS equipped with 2 PPC each and get 20 PPC total). Repeat process as many times as necessary for you.
I never used CLS or CLS2 to buy weapons.
That's a bit kind of cheaty, I thought that weapons suffer same rules as the shields when ordering ships: if there are available at the race equipment docks, you can purchase them, if not, you get the S model, no shields and no weapons. If what you said is actually true, that's an exploit, spawning in weapons that haven't been manufactured. Definitely NOT my way.

@Timsup2nothin thanks, gonna try it out, I assume it works if I use a TM to unload the weapons, don't have a TL yet in this gameplay.
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Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 21:32

manniac wrote:
@Timsup2nothin thanks, gonna try it out, I assume it works if I use a TM to unload the weapons, don't have a TL yet in this gameplay.
Yeah, you can unload to anything. I just suggested a TL because your guy jumping around the universe is going to burn jump fuel at a very high rate.

If the TM isn't docked the jumping buyer will need a transporter device.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

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Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 8. Sep 16, 22:23

manniac wrote:... same rules as the shields when ordering ships: if there are available at the race equipment docks, you can purchase them, if not, you get the S model, no shields and no weapons.
Not true. The stocks of stations have no effect whatsoever on the availability of different equipment levels at the Shipyards (SY).

The SY occasionally rolls a random number in range [0..Z]
There are two threshold values X and Y, where 0 < X < Y < Z

If the number is over Y, then the SY has S, M and L of everything
Else If the number is over X, then the SY has S and M of everything
Else the SY has only S of everything

All hail the Almighty Random Number Generator! :goner:


Sorry, I don't have a neat acquisition strategy. Best Buys Locator on a MORT and on my own ship is about it. Haphazard, opportunistic.

I've been looking at the Encyclopedia for found places that might sell.
I've noticed that the Stock Market shows the amount of ware within a group of sectors.

I do have CAG's in training though (could use the CLS2 for training) and I have a HQ (from some plot) that they will "serve" by fetching desired items from everywhere, provided that I fund them.
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Re: How to collect a weapon throughout the universe ?

Post by AleksMain » Fri, 9. Sep 16, 02:51

manniac wrote:...

That's a bit kind of cheaty, I thought that weapons suffer same rules as the shields when ordering ships: if there are available at the race equipment docks, you can purchase them, if not, you get the S model, no shields and no weapons. If what you said is actually true, that's an exploit, spawning in weapons that haven't been manufactured. Definitely NOT my way.
...
Actually you can buy existing (available) only weapons and shields.
I said it exactly.
Spoiler
Show
But since you can buy many (up to 10) ships, then you can equip those ships with weapons or shields, available in Equipment Dock. So number of originally bought items will be multiplied by number of bought ships.

You pay for equipped items, of course.

Example:
In the Equipment Dock available 2 Ion Cannons, 40 Missiles and 5 * 1 GJ shields.
Bought 10 ships, equipped with above items (you equip all ships instead of one by one).
Result you can calculate yourself.
You can buy 3 standard configurations of ships:
S
M
L
When you buy L configuration, then Shipyard produce ships with most powerful shields and weapons.
Spoiler
Show
But you can buy Custom configuration of ships, equipped with items from Equipment Dock.

Read for more details
http://www.x3wiki.com/index.php/Shipyar ... iplication

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Post by manniac » Fri, 9. Sep 16, 05:39

But still is a cheaty way. Weapons and gear get spawned out of thin air. Using the method you advocate, basically eliminates the "offer" from "demand and offer" part of commerce.
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Fri, 9. Sep 16, 06:26

manniac wrote:But still is a cheaty way. Weapons and gear get spawned out of thin air. Using the method you advocate, basically eliminates the "offer" from "demand and offer" part of commerce.
I won't dispute that it has a whiff (or outright stench, if you prefer) of exploit about it...but, spawning stuff out of thin air IS basically how shipyards work. Ships, stations, endless supply. Resources? We don't need no steeeenking resources! At least the shipyard equipment spawn exploit you actually have to pay for the stuff.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

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Post by Cycrow » Fri, 9. Sep 16, 10:21

Weapons/shields also get removed over time from equipment docks.

so you could just believe that when they get removed, they simply go to the stocks of shipyards for ships to use, rather than needing to take from the available stock at the equipment dock.

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Post by jlehtone » Fri, 9. Sep 16, 18:41

manniac wrote:Using the method you advocate, basically eliminates the "offer" from "demand and offer" part of commerce.
I hate to break it to you, but
  • NPC SPP's produce ECells out of thin void.
  • NPC Factory knows exactly one thing: how much ware it has in its stocks. A full NPC SPP XL will sell at rock bottom price even if no Factory in the Universe has a single cell and thus are willing to pay premium. The station prices are not based on global (or even sector) demand and offer.
  • NPC Free traders buy at less than "average" and sell at more than "average" (Docks being a special "average" destination.) As result, the NPC Factories make little profit or even run at loss all the time.
In other words, practically everything that a player does by default, is "cheaty" compared to the NPC Way of Life.


Nevertheless, I do agree with you that the game offers "opportunities" that a player has to avoid, if not being a complete Teladi. Some are easier to pass than others.

Not thinking too much about it does help. I am a Merchant. Honest. I sell photons to Xenon and Terrans. No matter how much I haul, they keep coming for more. Every space game needs some evil aliens, doesn't it? :split:



IIRC, the batch buying math is this:
If the local EDock has H units in stock, then each ship can purchase up to H units. If you buy K ships (K<=10) and buy L units of ware, then L*K units will be removed from the stock. For example, buying 5 fighters and adding 100 Mosquito per ship, 500 Mosq will vanish from the EDock. All, if there are up to 500. The EDock has to have at least 100 Mosq before purchase and you do pay for all 500 Mosq.

We have thus two options:
  1. Consiously avoid "overbuying" at the "Upgrade ships" stage and hunt (potentially cheaper) equipment from Factories
  2. Accept the "convenience" feature, despite spending more credits than necessary
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Fri, 9. Sep 16, 21:08

Cycrow wrote:Weapons/shields also get removed over time from equipment docks.

so you could just believe that when they get removed, they simply go to the stocks of shipyards for ships to use, rather than needing to take from the available stock at the equipment dock.
And other goods are removed from trading stations, which can also hypothetically be being processed by the shipyard into stuff.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

Timsup2nothin
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Post by Timsup2nothin » Sun, 11. Sep 16, 19:17

Timsup2nothin wrote:You need a logistician pilot and CLS 2. Use generate waypoints, range 50, sell, weapon of choice, average price, cargo space max. This will produce a waypoint for every dock that carries the weapon. Edit them to buys instead of sells. Then use generate waypoints again, but feed it "buy" instead of "sell." This will generate a waypoint for every factory that produces the weapons.

Add an unload point (probably a TL) and a refuel point (probably the same TL). Make sure the ship has at least enough jump fuel to get halfway across the universe and back.
Just a clarification that I was clearly heavily doped here...this is instructions for how to get rid of the weapons.

To buy them just the one generate waypoints command is required. It will pick up factories and docks in one pass.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

manniac
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Post by manniac » Wed, 14. Sep 16, 14:43

Timsup2nothin wrote:
Just a clarification that I was clearly heavily doped here...this is instructions for how to get rid of the weapons.

To buy them just the one generate waypoints command is required. It will pick up factories and docks in one pass.
No, it was actually quite clear. Bought an Orca TL, trained some CLS (lost around 3 of them to pirates, how the hell can they catch a fully tricked Kestrel?)
installed them in a decked Mistral and sent it on its way. I was pleasantly surprised, I used this setup to store stott spices and BoFu in my TL for xenon hub plot.
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