Playing other games

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pjknibbs
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Post by pjknibbs » Wed, 4. Apr 18, 09:05

Morkonan wrote:Probably the most complex builder/rts on that platform, so far.
I doubt it--Cities: Skylines has been available on XBox One for a while now. If Surviving Mars is more complex than *that* then it'll be borderline unplayable! :wink:

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Post by Morkonan » Wed, 4. Apr 18, 16:45

pjknibbs wrote:
Morkonan wrote:Probably the most complex builder/rts on that platform, so far.
I doubt it--Cities: Skylines has been available on XBox One for a while now. If Surviving Mars is more complex than *that* then it'll be borderline unplayable! :wink:
It's more complex *, as far as I can see. Haven't played either, but have watched plenty of "Let's Plays" and the like.

As far as "unplayable" it looks fairly solid on XBox. There are a few complaints with some wonky controls and camera angles at times, but once players get past those things, they seem to really love the game on the console.

Micro$oft, according to their statements, is preparing for mouse&keyboard support options for XBox... If so, that would be a pretty big deal, opening up a slew of options and effectively turning their console into a gaming mini-pc, which they have been reluctant to do. With their restructuring and vastly reduced focus on Windows as a product, I can easily see them looking to redirect some interest for _Box consoles replacing PCs.

Anyway, take a look at the game and see what you think if you're a fan of builder/rts sorts of things. I'll probably get it soon, so will report on it. (Still tied up with Path of Exile these days.)

* Complex as in game mechanics. Skylines has some interesting dynamic geometry stuffs, but there's some of that as well with Surviving Mars. I don't think that part of the game is as "complex" as Skylines, but the mechanics underneath everything look to be pretty robust. It's a "different" sort of game, though. And, it is, after all, a Paradox game, so you know it's gonna have some crunching going on under the hood.

Edit-Note: After looking at it a bit more closely, I'd recommend waiting on Surviving Mars for right now. I'm thinking Paradox is going to give it the full "Paradox Treatment" with add-on content, slews of skins, yadda yadda... Which, to be honest, ticks me off. While there are a good number of play hours in the game, according to what I've seen, the full "content" kind of treatment one might expect could be a little slimmer than it originally presented itself as having. Reserving judgement until the fifteenenthiests skinpack/expansion comes out.. :/

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Post by felter » Fri, 6. Apr 18, 17:24

You know I don't really buy games any more, they just come with so much crap. So I basically just play older games and I have plenty of them.

Lately I've I started a new game of Skyrim. I also just did the event with Euro Truck Simulator. But the game that has surprised me the most is a game that I did buy at Christmas which is Stardew Valley. Just love the game, I've managed to accumulate 423 hours since Christmas, which probably puts it into my top ten most played games ever and it only cost me £7. It has no loot boxes, no micro-transactions, no DLC you have to buy, no crap just an enjoyable game to play.
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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 00:06

I bought all the "Steam Link" streaming stuff.... just to play Civ IV mods on my TV from my couch. Still haven't put the 'puter together to do it, though, and the streaming stuff is still in the boxes it came in. :) Skyrim should look awesome, though, once I get the setup complete. (REAL Skyrim, with mods and graphic enhancments. I really need to get a new 'puter up-and-running, just for that!)

I recently d'loaded "Crusader Kings II" thanks to the freebie announcement thread. Still free for a day, so grab it quick! I'm looking forward to experimenting with it.

These days, I too refrain from games heavily laden with DLC and extra-purchase "packs." I'd rather play old games with good "mods." Because publishers are eager to cash in on products that yield an ever-constant revenue stream enabled by extra purchases, I think that "mods" are somewhat endangered. There will always be smaller devs that encourage that, since it promotes their product, but I wonder what large publishers are going to insist on doing? Will they start actively working against "modders?" Will more of their stuff be pushed to "the cloud", perhaps, or even to console now that Microsoft has announced it's de-emphasis on Windows, to further limit market choices to only what they can charge for?

Interesting times.

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Post by Chips » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 13:31

CK 2 can be hard to get into, definitely recommend watching some "Lets Play" where they go through the basics of it, so you can get a feel. I've never *really* gotten into it that much.

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Post by Morkonan » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 14:00

Chips wrote:CK 2 can be hard to get into, definitely recommend watching some "Lets Play" where they go through the basics of it, so you can get a feel. I've never *really* gotten into it that much.
I've watched bunches of CKII let's plays by several 'tubers. I do think it'll be hard to get into, but if one manages to do that, the gameplay looks pretty good. I like the idea of having a hereditary King and opponents and rivals being "NPCs" that have personalities. And, I like the idea of establishing ties through marriage, title, etc, to accomplish goals. "Intrigue" stuff looks interesting, too.

But, I'm also a sort of "Here comes my Stack-of-Doom Army, supported by a Giant Military Machine Industrial Base, to take your stuff" sort of player. So, it'll be interesting to see if I can get into CK's style of conquest, intrigue, titles, etc... All that "royalty" and "succession" stuff that 'Muricans have absolutely no practical experience or history with at all.

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Post by burger1 » Sat, 7. Apr 18, 16:29

felter wrote:You know I don't really buy games any more, they just come with so much crap. So I basically just play older games and I have plenty of them.
I do the same thing and play either old games or ones I buy on sale. I think the last new game I bought was Mass Effect Andromeda. It seems like there's hardly any new games worth getting anymore. This year there might be X Foundations and Metro Exodus + some games I have probably forgotten. Currently playing Elder Scrolls Online.

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Re: Playing other games

Post by burger1 » Thu, 24. Jan 19, 03:28

Playing Tomb Raider that I bought on sale at some point in time. The beginning was pretty good. The quick time time events I could do without. It has an air of mystery.

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Gavrushka » Thu, 24. Jan 19, 08:44

If I could get it working on Win 10, I'd be playing a Civilisation Call to Power I. - Of the entire franchise, there's never been a game with such hidden tactical depth. - I've tried all the other versions since, and the gameplay feels dumbed down while the pretty has been turned up to the max. - I've bought Civ. Call to Power 2 from GOG, but was trying to find the 'Apolyton pack' which I believe allowed PBEM. - If anyone knows of a copy of the mod, I'd be much obliged if they posted the link. :)

But one little gem I have been playing quite a lot is the original Eador game (Eador Genesis.) - It's similar to Heroes of Might & Magic, but with more depth and a boatload of replayability. - There's been a further iteration of the game since, and it's great fun with awesome new units, but it does crash every now and then.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Morkonan » Thu, 24. Jan 19, 14:32

Gavrushka wrote:
Thu, 24. Jan 19, 08:44
If I could get it working on Win 10, I'd be playing a Civilisation Call to Power I. - Of the entire franchise, there's never been a game with such hidden tactical depth. - I've tried all the other versions since, and the gameplay feels dumbed down while the pretty has been turned up to the max. - I've bought Civ. Call to Power 2 from GOG, but was trying to find the 'Apolyton pack' which I believe allowed PBEM. - If anyone knows of a copy of the mod, I'd be much obliged if they posted the link. :)

But one little gem I have been playing quite a lot is the original Eador game (Eador Genesis.) - It's similar to Heroes of Might & Magic, but with more depth and a boatload of replayability. - There's been a further iteration of the game since, and it's great fun with awesome new units, but it does crash every now and then.
IIRC, several of the Civ games allowed for PBEM. In fact, Civ IV has PBEM multiplayer.

The thing I hated about CTP was stuff like archers shooting down attack jets and tanks destroying a city-tile only to end up getting stuck on that tile because it was a mountain city.... :/ I did like the space-fighter stuff, though. But, it was really overpowered. i suppose it should be, but still...

I've thought about picking Eador up, but there was some criticism regarding it that put me off. I might have to revisit purchasing it.

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Thu, 24. Jan 19, 18:23

I've nearly 100%'d Assassin's Creed Odyssey. That is one massively under-rated game. Some of the reviews out there of the game are hugely inaccurate and unfair, particularly the farcical one by Dunkey. I didn't like that guy before, I dispise him now. Total fraud of a reviewer.

I would highly recommend the game to anyone wanting to have an adventure in mythical ancient Greece. It was great, start to finish. Play it on hard difficulty with quests set to exploration mode at the start and let the game world take you in. Its very good.
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Re: Playing other games

Post by Morkonan » Thu, 24. Jan 19, 18:32

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Thu, 24. Jan 19, 18:23
I've nearly 100%'d Assassin's Creed Odyssey. That is one massively under-rated game...
The reviewers that I respect have all remarked on AC:Odyssey as being an excellent game, some even going so far as putting it on their Top Games of 2018 list. There's some talk of "grinding" and such and everyone speaks out against the microtransanctions, but it seems like a decent game for all that.

On another note, Avaak has a Kenshi playlist, so that might have to be a thing for me soon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZZ6KCF ... fTJjwCxZ4J

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Gavrushka » Fri, 25. Jan 19, 11:05

Morkonan wrote:
Thu, 24. Jan 19, 14:32

IIRC, several of the Civ games allowed for PBEM. In fact, Civ IV has PBEM multiplayer.

The thing I hated about CTP was stuff like archers shooting down attack jets and tanks destroying a city-tile only to end up getting stuck on that tile because it was a mountain city.... :/ I did like the space-fighter stuff, though. But, it was really overpowered. i suppose it should be, but still...

I've thought about picking Eador up, but there was some criticism regarding it that put me off. I might have to revisit purchasing it.

Yeah, the PBEM is there, but the gameplay just isn't the same. - And, yes, fortified ancient units in walled towns in hills / mountains could defeat modern units on occasion, but that was a rarity and if such a disparity of units between players existed, the game was already won by the advanced side. - I've just order Civ CTP I, and a couple of opponents from the early noughties are up for a game, with one even looking at enabling online play once more (servers disappeared a long time ago.) - Thing is, for such a surprisingly simple game, the tactical depth is immense. Online play was awesome, mainly because there was no turn peeking that some of the less trustworthy players indulged in. - Hell, if we can get the game playing properly on Win 10 machines, I might see about setting up a league, just like we had back on the old Apolyton site.

Ah, the two sequels to Eador's original were panned, mainly because the guy tried to push the game engine too far and it just kept crashing. It's a little more stable now, but there are triggers that can ruin a game (thus there are autosaves layered several deep.) - The original game was faultless and very well received. Bit of a learning curve, and starting off is slow, but worth the time investment. - I never played the campaigns, just the sandbox.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Morkonan » Fri, 25. Jan 19, 12:42

Gavrushka wrote:
Fri, 25. Jan 19, 11:05
...I might see about setting up a league, just like we had back on the old Apolyton site.
That might be fun if it could get going. I remember using "Play the World" with a friend of mine for Civ back when they hadn't included an online client for it. Apolyton was great, but I always liked CivFantatics more. The one thing I did go to Apolyton for was some mods that were harder to find and some tips for them.
... I never played the campaigns, just the sandbox.
/raises hand "Guilty"

I usually end up doing the same with most 4x games or similar. Though, I will say that some games have much better campaigns than others. For instance, the old Total Annihilation game had an outstanding campaign in it. IIRC, Star Wars: Empire at War had a great one, too. Both are RTS, though, so that may be the primary issue - It's hard to develop an engaging campaign and story for a traditional 4x game.

For 4X "story" and roleplaying play, I enjoy emerging gameplay elements or things like "Special Tiles" that initiate a "story." The Civ IV mod "Fall From Heaven II" and its submod "Ashes of Erubus" (A fork of Rise From Erubus) has story/roleplay elements like that all over the place. As a bonus for FFHII - Every faction is different, every religion provides different advantages, every "wonder" has true impact and strategic advantages or disadvantages, etc... Yes, I love that mod. :)

I guess there are just limited elements available for campaigns in 4X games. IIRC, and it has been a very long time, the campaign mode in Call to Power had elements that focused on the special units available. The game was filled with special units and that was something that many criticized due to how much they could influence gameplay.

Almost forgot! Sid Meir's Alpha Centauri was a wonderful play experience, with it being a virtual "campaign mode" throughout the entirety of play, thanks to how the timeline and tech influenced emerging story elements. THAT was a truly wonderful game! The only downside was unit upgrade management which was a game element that was in its infancy when that game came out, so it's easy to see how they got trapped in trying to deal with it. But, that's a small price to play for such a wonderful 4X.

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Gavrushka » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 23:22

Was Apolyton an official site? I'd always assumed so. - I'd never known there'd been an alternative. - It was a hoot arranging internet games when people were in half a dozen different time zones. - Poor guy on the West Coast had to be online for 7:00am on a Sunday morning, but what followed was several hours of incredibly intense gameplay, often too damned close to call until the final epic battle (most often fought with hundreds of nine-stacks of SOLs with musketeers, cannons and pikemen for holding captured cities.) - What got me was different people would win online games (always taken from the same core group) to those who'd win PBEM. - There were a number who were hopeless online who always seemed to win in the emailed turn variant. - We took to introducing secret moderators who'd look at the behaviour of players, and you could see the cheating was obvious. It was a valuable life lesson for me! LOL. - A significant proportion of people would cheat, because they'd assumed there'd be no way they could be unmasked. :(

You know, I've never played Alpha Centauri, but have heard good things about it. - The problem is, I was part of a hardcore of wargaming players who wanted a 4x that really emphasised conflict by way of unit proliferation and a technological arms race. We played without wonders, even without ruins, and restarted the game several times until all parties felt their start positions were good enough. It was a genuine tactical challenge that I've not seen mirrored in any turn-based game since. Playing the AI on even 'deity' setting was unfulfilling, easily defeated, and the challenge of outmanoeuvring a human opponent seductive in the extreme. - Right now I've re-ordered Civ CTP from eBay, and a Dutch friend is trying to get the servers up and running again, but regardless we're gonna jump in and play a PBEM or two - And, yeah, even start a league. - I challenge anyone to find a better civ-style 4x turn based wargame in the last 20 years. - If they do, I'd be delighted to play it.

If we do start a league, I'll certainly supply you with a link. - And if anyone knows of the old players from Apolyton, it'd be great to hear from them. - Blackice (Canadian,) Keygen (Greek,) Felix (German,) Ricketyclick, Dance Masseuse, Horned Frog, PaulNo1 (Australian, and he was more or less the best of us,) and Grandpa Troll (US.) - Players I'm still in contact or aware of are Quinns, Stephan (Darth Viper - weird, he was 15 when we started playing, and now he's in his 30s!!) - and I know Stephan's father, Franses, moved to Thailand.

But anyway, to underline, if anyone knows of a more modern Civ style 4x 'wargame' online/PBEM I'd love to know about it.
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Morkonan » Sun, 27. Jan 19, 19:45

Gavrushka wrote:
Sat, 26. Jan 19, 23:22
Was Apolyton an official site? I'd always assumed so. -
No, not really. Firaxis embraced many of the fanbased communities, though, so an "official community" was really never a thing.
...A significant proportion of people would cheat, because they'd assumed there'd be no way they could be unmasked. :(
I don't even know why people consider "cheating" a viable gaming choice when playing against other players. To me, it's an immediate indication of bad character and a demonstration of personally unethical ideals. Some children could be exempt, a bit, from such judgement, but anyone over the age of 10 should be forming a much sounder world-view. Sadly, that's not the case these days.
You know, I've never played Alpha Centauri, but have heard good things about it. -
You're missing out. Seriously. It's a wholly different experience, but a better one in many, many, ways. Each faction "feels different." That's a different quality than just "plays different." Faction leaders are meaningful and the world "feels alive." Every player not only has to deal with the other factions, but the world itself and very significant choices to be made about the future. It is @$$@$%'in awesome. It is not a classic "Civilzation Game" experience and it's all the better for it.

Edit:Add - I wanted to also say that there is definitely a sort of "story" in the game. It's one of the first 4X games that "evolves" story elements as you play. Also, Faction Leaders are fairly unique when compared to previous Civ games and their personalities are tailored accordingly. And, eventually units can be customized and upgraded all the way to upgrading specific bits of the unit and giving units unique looks via the same sort of "attach to null" method that Galactic Civilization used. ie: "So, you want to create a unit that's made out of a hoverbike with a big blaster canon hanging off of it? No problem! Oh, you just want to do that for only one unit? NO PROBLEM!" A lot of unique ideas in that game. There is, however, one downside at least with the version that I played - There isn't a "Music Track." Instead, it's a long droning out bit of background noise, IIRC. I think they added one, though, in a later release. But, if not, just play some nice sort of sci-fi background music. Hmm, maybe buying the X4 Music Pack would be a good choice? :)
...I challenge anyone to find a better civ-style 4x turn based wargame in the last 20 years. - If they do, I'd be delighted to play it.
That's a tall order to fill, especially if you're talking about one that is multiplayer friendly. For myself, I prefer Civ IV with some caveats. I haven't played V or VI, so can't speak to them.

One issue is critical, IMO, in all Civ games up to Civ V, in which I think they put some serious effort into combating - The "Trade" AI. In Civ IV, mods were made to attempt to correct this problem, but none of them were fully successful while still keeping Diplomacy and Trade alive in their version of the game. The problem revolved around an extremely easy way to win the game by taking advantage of how Civ's Diplomacy and Trade AI worked, specifically with how much it valued technologies. "Tech Trading" was the way a player could literally bankrupt the AI and force it to do what they wanted, whenever they wanted. I had a friend who I played multiplayer with and he used that strategy all the time. He used it so regularly that I don't think he could have played the game without using that strategy. Granted, it's "in the game" and, thus, people think it's an available strategy, but it completely breaks gameplay... For the Tech-Trading player, the game gets to the point where the AI's are reliant on the player to sell them Technology because they don't have any money to do anything else other than buy Technology from the player... The player rapes their wallets and ends the game fighting the last stack of club-wielding savages with their tanks and bombers ...

And, don't get me started on "Bomber Strategy" which is wtfstupid-OP, eventually. :)
If we do start a league, I'll certainly supply you with a link.
That'd be cool! What you guys should really try to do is Twitch stream your games! There are bunches of people that would love to see multiplayer 4X gaming, especially Civ games! And, you'd attract some attention, maybe get some others playing, and might be able to at least finance your servers with the proceeds. Hmmm... What about a sort of "Competitive 4X Multiplayer Stream" kind of channel if you get enough members? You could leverage that to build your group membership. You'd probably have to have a few more modern additions to your playlist, but the backbone could be all those "Great Oldies" that people remember having so much fun with.
...But anyway, to underline, if anyone knows of a more modern Civ style 4x 'wargame' online/PBEM I'd love to know about it.
Do you want to stay in the historical "Earth" milieu, or would you be open to fantasy/sci-fi/alternative settings? There are all sorts of good choices out there, from "Dominions" series (Supports a large number of players, PBEM too I think), "Endless Legend" (not sure how it works in MP) up through "Europa Universalis" and the like.

I cut my teeth on "Empire Deluxe" back in the day. :) That was a heck of a lot of multiplayer fun, all things considered. Simple play, but simple can be a lot of fun.

PS - On the OT of "Playing other games" I'm about to go click "Purchase" on "Kenshi." I think my current rig will play it, but I haven't yet put one together to play X4 with. That should come in the next month or so, I think.

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Fri, 1. Feb 19, 02:15

Trying to get into Middle-earth: Shadow of War...
Its got some good mechanics but the general gameplay really irritates me. I don't find it fun at all when in any combat I'm permanently surrounded by loads of grunts who spawn out of nowhere and all I can do is spam parry or just die in two hits. I try to play how the game wants me to, by dominating grunts before engaging, but without any way to co-ordinate outside of stealth commands they're utterly useless. Then there are random archers and spear throwers and captains who come out of the woodwork with unblockable attacks and I just die, and whoever kills me then becomes a strong captain. It's a neat mechanic but so infuriating that I've taken to ALT-F4ing before the death scene plays out so the grunt doesn't get stronger. Just not fun.
Also, the camera is far too low even on max fov.
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Re: Playing other games

Post by pjknibbs » Fri, 1. Feb 19, 08:24

Did you ever play Middle-Earth: Shadows of Mordor, Stars_InTheirEyes? If not, get that one and play it instead--it's just a better game than Shadow of War, IMHO.

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Re: Playing other games

Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Sat, 2. Feb 19, 20:09

pjknibbs wrote:
Fri, 1. Feb 19, 08:24
Did you ever play Middle-Earth: Shadows of Mordor, Stars_InTheirEyes? If not, get that one and play it instead--it's just a better game than Shadow of War, IMHO.
I did play that, and its much worse than War in my opinion. Mordor had the same combat 'spam parry or die' but without the interesting domination mechanics. I've only just started Act II so hoping it picks up a bit. I am playing on Brutal difficulty so that's probably one reason I'm getting killed so much.
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Re: Playing other games

Post by pjknibbs » Sat, 2. Feb 19, 21:12

Stars_InTheirEyes wrote:
Sat, 2. Feb 19, 20:09
I did play that, and its much worse than War in my opinion. Mordor had the same combat 'spam parry or die' but without the interesting domination mechanics. I've only just started Act II so hoping it picks up a bit. I am playing on Brutal difficulty so that's probably one reason I'm getting killed so much.
It did have the same domination mechanics? You just didn't get them until halfway through the game. And sneaking was always an option in the first game, whereas it often isn't in the second one.

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