Turrets and NPC ships

[immortalfrieza]

Well, here's the situation. I'm playing X3: Reunion and managed to cap a nice Xenon K, which I outfitted with turrets and shields and everything. However, once I got it into combat I noticed the issue that makes my K useless. Since all it has is turrets manual aiming is not possible, and non hostile NPCs especially police and military ships have the tendency to get in the line of fire when I'm fighting an enemy, meaning I piss them off, meaning I have a new enemy to fight, repeat. This is especially bad when M6s and other capital ships are in the area. As a result I'm down to using M6s at the most.

Are their any mods that fix this somehow, and is this a problem with future games in the X series too?

[UnknownObject]

Maybe, you should use Beta Flak Artillery Array? It's a precise weapon.

[RAVEN.myst]

What weapons did you equip? I would advise against PSGs except in areas with only hostiles around (such as Xenon Sectors). That being said, even the other projectile weapons will tend to miss - a PPC firing at a fighter will almsot certainly miss and go on to hit a station beyond that if there is one - to mitigate this to some extent, you should set the various turrets to the appropriate turret commands - turrets with weapons such as PPCs ought to be set to "Attack capitals" so they don't shoot at smaller ships that they are unlikely to ever hit. For the other turrets, you can use more general commands, though I usually run "Missile defense", which means those turrets will shoot at incoming missiles and retaliate against any ship firing at you; the downside here is that this setting is purely reactive - that turret won't shoot at even an enemy fighter in range on its own initiative (though it also results in fewer 'friendly fire incidents') - in light of that, you may prefer a more standard "Attack enemies" or, for more precise control, "Attack my target".

What UnknownObject said is also a very valid point - flaks are very VERY effective weapons against smaller targets (even up to M6s), and because of their extremely high shot travel speed they don't miss very often. My typical weapon loadout on M2s is usually PPCs on the mounts that can accommodate them (front and sides) and flaks wherever else I can (usually everywhere else, but depending on the specific ship - some can't mount flak in the rear, for instance - I forget what the Reunion K can use and where, as it's been a while since I played that one, I play Terran Conflict/Albion Prelude, and though most things are the same or similar, there are significant differences, particularly in terms of weaponry and ship-weapon compatibilites.)

[jlehtone]

1. "Capped a K in X3R". Interesting feat, for it requires very high Combat Rank. That in turn means that most generic combat missions offer plenty of capital ship targets. You have managed to get that far with M6. Impressive.


2. Yes, big guns fire slow, but long-range projectiles and the guns rotate slowly in a turret. If the target is a nimble fighter, then most of the shots miss it and spray the space with shots. That leads to "friendly fire" possibility; both your own fleet and non-hostile NPC can get hurt, if they are nearby.


3. There are area attack weapons, like the (Paranid) Phased Shockwave Generators (PSG) that are very "unfriendly", and on the opposite end the fast-bullet, short-range weapons that are ideal against fighters.


4. Put heavy hitters (like gPPC) to 1-2 forward-facing turrets (e.g. front and right) and give those turrets the "Attack my target" command. Fill the rest of the ship with anti-fighter weaponry and suitable turret commands. In combat select capital foe as target and steer your ship so that the anti-capital turrets can shoot at your target.


5. I fly capital ships usually alone in enemy sector (Xenon, Kha'ak, etc), with no "friendlies" around. The purpose of M2 is to destroy, so it is best used in places, where everything is free game.


6. You have probably noticed that Xenon Invasions in X3R have only poorly shielded K/J. A moderate amount of Typhoons kills them. I had 5 Centaurs loaded with Typhoons well above ecliptic plane waiting during invasions and used the (Bonuspack) Group Management Hotkeys to make them launch a missile barrage at my target.


7. Particularly the X3AP has effective NPC missile ships. They do launch long-range missiles. More than once a target has turned blue, only to be demolished some time later by slow, big missiles.

[immortalfrieza]

1. "Capped a K in X3R". Interesting feat, for it requires very high Combat Rank. That in turn means that most generic combat missions offer plenty of capital ship targets. You have managed to get that far with M6. Impressive.

To be honest, not so impressive considering I used the Bail Signal Extension mod to do it, though I got it out of one of the Xenon invasion missions where there was just 1 there and did have to reload a few times to get it to bail.

I think I'll try and see how the Flak Artillery arrays work out like Unknown suggested and see if they work better. I'm just trying to see if I can make my K useful enough to be used generally, but the friendly fire makes that difficult. It's simply that NPC ships tend to either fly between me and the target and get hit or the misses tend to hit them. I wish though that turrets could be given orders individually instead of as a group, it would probably fix most of the issue right there.

[Sinxar]

Makes more sense now. Was wondering how you managed to cap a K in Reunion. AFAIK it is impossible to do that in vanilla as capitals (M6 and up) don't bail whatsoever (could be wrong, never heard of it though).

You could check the turret on/off hotkey script and see if there is a version for Reunion. MARS may have the functionality you need but again, not sure if there is a Reunion version.

Sadly most scripts are for TC/AP. At least you will have something to look forward to when you decide to move forward.

[RAVEN.myst]

Was wondering how you managed to cap a K in Reunion. AFAIK it is impossible to do that in vanilla as capitals (M6 and up) don't bail whatsoever (could be wrong, never heard of it though).

In Reunion and earlier, all ships can bail - it was only as of X3TC that the boarding mechanics were introduced into the game, requiring M6s and capitals (and the then-new TMs) to be marine-boarded.

[Sinxar]

In Reunion and earlier, all ships can bail.

I am almost 100% sure that is not true. There is apparently a way to make a K bail but that is only under specific conditions.

[RAVEN.myst]

I captured several Ks in X2: The Threat, pretty much by mistake the first couple of times (and then went "woohoo! " heheheheh), so that much IS true. However, I admit that I am mostly assuming WRT X3 Reunion, as in most regards it's much like X2 but with the newer graphics, and the boarding mechanic wasn't introduced until later in X3TC. I spent less time in X3R, only to backfill story on one occasion, and as part of a complete chronological romp through the whole series more recently. However, a friend of mine played tons of Reunion and he once phoned me to ask how he had ended up with a banged up K after a big fight - it's unlikely but possible that he may have been playing with some mod/s, however (I, on the other hand, am 100% vanilla, allowing myself only the official Bonus Packs, nothing more whatsoever, so my K-caps in X2 were vanillegit.)

[immortalfrieza]

I did get a Xenon P thanks to the BSE and XTM that I use for my main ship, and a K just a bit before that. I'm pretty sure Xenon Ps aren't supposed to be able to bail normally and aren't supposed to be able to be piloted, especially since the P's first person camera is a little off. I just prefer to "cap my way up" as it were for upgrading my ships and the Xenon ones are pretty awesome anyway. I've got a while to go before I'll be able to try the flak arrays though, due to needing a really high reputation rank for it.

I'll check to see about that turret hotkey script, thanks Sinxar.

[RAVEN.myst]

If/when you ever decide to play X3TC/AP, Xenon capturing becomes quite the sport there. For starters, they are fiendishly hard to board, much more so than other races' ships - this is intentional, I think, to make them special trophies. The P is also really nimble, as corvettes go - it is, in fact, the fastest-steering one, so it can really be flown as a super-heavy fighter. The Js and Ks are distinguished by the fact that they are really cheap and quick to replicate at your headquarters (this may hold true in Reunion, too, maybe - I don't know for sure, though), so you can rather quickly build up your own "robot fleet"

[zazie]

I'd like to support Sinxar. In X3 Reunion played "Vanilla" it was impossible to make Capital ships bail - with one exception, though: K . The linked thread is old, the links to the pictures do not work any more, but geoffrey was the first X3R-player ever reporting a bailing K.
But it was linked to special missions: taxi missions. And only if the player had a very high fighting rank [at least second highest, iirc], K were part of the Xenon-fleet sent out to interrupt the Taxi mission.
So a player owned K in X3R was very exclusive and extremely rare.
Other capital ships in player's hands were impossible without mods.

[jlehtone]

To be honest, not so impressive considering I used the Bail Signal Extension mod to do it, though I got it out of one of the Xenon invasion missions where there was just 1 there and did have to reload a few times to get it to bail.

1. Mods affect the game and thus what is true in vanilla does not have to hold. This Forum focuses on vanilla features.
2. Since you already do use S&M, search the X3R S&M Forum for mean's to control your turrets.

All ships on "Xenon Taxi" (aka Escape from Xenon) mission could be captured (both X2 and X3R). That means Xenon N, M, L and K, for no other ship type did spawn. That was the only way to get K, vanilla. The K does appear only on "high ranks". I did add to the table below what FAQ says about X2 and what I found written on this Forum (by me ) about X3R.

X2 had Assassination escorts that did bail. The M6 escorts too.
X2 FAQ about Xenon Taxi mission
X2 FAQ about Assassination

Code: Select all

X3R        X2
           Admiral               -- M6 escorts appear on X2 Assassinations
           Ace 1st Grade
           Ace 2nd Grade
           Ace 3rd Grade
           Combat Ace 1st Grade
           Combat Ace 2nd Grade
           Combat Ace 3rd Grade
Conqueror  Ace of Aces 1st Grade -- K appears on X2 "Xenon Taxi" mission
Overlord   Ace of Aces 2nd Grade
Legend     Ace of Aces 3rd Grade -- K appears on X3R "Xenon Taxi" mission
Hero       Supreme Veteran
X-Treme ........ the top dog

In other words, the Xenon K is the only capital ship in X3R that can be made to "bail". Once you have the requirements to get a K, you can gather as many as you like.

The X3TC/AP have entirely different mechanism for capital ships: boarding with marines. That does not affect how turrets behave.

X3AP has customizable turret commands and possibility to set a hotkey for "Stop turrets".


The S&M for TC/AP has much more, but this ain't the place for that discussion.