X3AP Clearing rocks?

[Sinxar]

In the player sector I want to clear the small rocks from the asteroid field. I want the guys to bring any ore back to the PHQ.

What would be the easiest way of doing this?

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Thanks!

[RAVEN.myst]

Since you want to actually collect the usable ore, then you could try the following:

- Some mining freighters (the more you have, the faster it will go)
- At least one CLS2 freighter with a transporter device

The way I would go about it is to drop a satellite in the middle of the rock field (or a particular part of it you want to start in), order your mining ships to move to that satellite; once they get there, tell them all to gather rocks. Give the CLS2 pilot a route to visit each of the miners and collect its ore/silicon (you may need to tweak the "minimum amount on collection" for best results - if it's set too low, the CLS2 will repeatedly visit the first ships in the list and end up neglecting ones farther down the list, but you want it low enough that mined ore gets cleared out consistently), and drop it off at the PHQ. The transporter device is needed to make those transfers from the miners while in flight, so don't forget it, or the ship will make its route but not collect anything If you have lots of mining ships, the trip back and forth between the PHQ and the miners can be inefficient, so then what I do is I place a large-hold freighter (SF-XL or equivalent, or a TL if you feel extravagant) near the mining area, and have the CLS2 "mine cart" drop off there, with another CLS2 just running back and forth between the large freighter "skip" and the destination (in your case the PHQ). The whole arrangement is totally mobile, so as your miners clear away areas, the CLS "mine carts" simply move with them - you may want to adjust the placement of the "skip" periodically, though, if necessary.

The operation is scalable - the more freighters you use, the faster it will go (and the more CLS2s you may need - I think I used to use 1 "mine cart" per 10 or 12 miners, but I can't remember for sure). I used to do this, sometimes, in X3TC as a permanent mining operation, since the rocks used to respawn in that game - in X3AP the rocks don't respawn and can thus be cleared away, making this less useful as a resource gathering method, but allowing cleaning up of sectors if desired.

[Sinxar]

I've done that in TC also. Will they comb the entire belt or would they only stay around the sat? What about the bigger rocks that need to be broken down. Will they do it? I can't see myself going out there and breaking the rocks manually. might as well do it myself with a TL at that point.

[Snafu_X3]

AFAICT in AP the key is to stay IZ: I don't think (see sig for caveat) the rocks will be cleared if <playership> is OOZ.

With that said, the usual IZ mining restrictions/problems apply:

• The miners will only range a limited distance from their start point, so moving that point (not necessarily the sat) frequently is necessary for complete clearance
  Mining ships need some sort of gun (doesn't have to be MMS) to break up bigger rocks otherwise they'll simply ram the rock(s); one each per mountpoint/turret is adequate; the longer range the better (but don't go overboard with expensive weps unless you can afford (& have stock of) replacements easily - see below)
  Mining ships need /lots/ of shielding (& frequent nursemaiding) to prevent destruction by collision (with rocks usually, deliberate or not)
  Lag encroaches on scalability with the higher no. of objects (rocks, ships, debris etc) IZ

In <Playersector> unless you have reason to do otherwise your best bet may be to simply clear the rock/debris fields that are in your way, & ignore the rest. <Playersector> is fairly large, so clearing it completely is probably not going to affect your framerate in there overmuch (depending upon what else you've built there ofc.. )

(PS can someone remind me of the BBCode for bulleted lists? TIA..)

[RAVEN.myst]

A thought: if clearing space is the priority and the resource value is not, how about... Phased Shockwave Generator? That may prove the quickest way to do it (has to be done tediously manually, of course)

[Snafu_X3]

Never tried PSG vs rocks meself, but it sounds like a reasonable idea; flamethrower's range is too short for that use ofc (& illogical, but meh..)

[Alan Phipps]

I have a Deimos parked up with 8 PSGs in the hold for use when needed. The ship is called 'Roadsweeper' to indicate its intended function and it has proved very effective indeed. You do need to keep the public and spectators far away when it is working though!

For some reason enemy fighter swarms don't seem to like it either.

[RAVEN.myst]

Hahahah - nice! So the method does work. Do you also keep rolls of tape in the hold, to rope off the designated areas for the sake of public safety?

[ancienthighway]

AFAICT in AP the key is to stay IZ: I don't think (see sig for caveat) the rocks will be cleared if <playership> is OOZ.

This is the behavior in TC, not AP. It's what allowed endless nividium collection in King;s End, as long as the player ship stayed out of the sector.

@Sinxar, I can't check right now, but Mine Minerals may be a better option than Collect Rocks. Home base your mobile miners to the PHQ and as they fill up, they will empty their hold at the Home Base.

Keep in mind though that the PHQ has a limited storage capacity and if you fill up the storage with ore, you limit what else you can store there. Place a Ore Mine L on any asteroid in sector, use that as the Home Base to collect the ore, then move it to the PHQ as necessary. Same with silicon. Turn off production to those holding stations unless you want them to produce and consume energy.

[Snafu_X3]

AFAICT in AP the key is to stay IZ: I don't think (see sig for caveat) the rocks will be cleared if <playership> is OOZ.

This is the behavior in TC, not AP. It's what allowed endless nividium collection in King;s End, as long as the player ship stayed out of the sector.

I thought that AP only fixed the /OOZ/ mining behaviour (to prevent that exploit), but fairynuff; I can't check

[Sinxar]

Mine Minerals may be a better option than Collect Rocks. Home base your mobile miners to the PHQ and as they fill up, they will empty their hold at the Home Base.

Keep in mind though that the PHQ has a limited storage capacity and if you fill up the storage with ore, you limit what else you can store there. Place a Ore Mine L on any asteroid in sector, use that as the Home Base to collect the ore, then move it to the PHQ as necessary. Same with silicon. Turn off production to those holding stations unless you want them to produce and consume energy.

Yeah I was thinking that as well. Using CLS is far too tedious. The minerals will be taken care of, they will be ferried to the Terraformer Hub for distribution.

Giving the miners an IRE should let them break down the bigger rocks as well right?

Haven't done anything yet so if anybody has any easier solution than the mine minerals command let me know!

[Alan Phipps]

Just to clear things up a bit:

In both TC and AP, any rocks that you shoot or ram to destruction are gone for good.

In both TC and AP, a full-size (ie appears on sector map) asteroid will never respawn once a mine is built on it, even if that mine and rock is later moved or destroyed. Full size asteroids that are broken up will eventually respawn with similar yield and the same mineral in just about the same place.

In TC, any cluster of sub-asteroids/rocks that you break up and *totally* mine or collect without destroying any usually will respawn nearby (hence the possibility for endless mining or collecting in one place - especially if done under AI control).

In TC, there is no technical difference between IS and OOS for this BUT you are far more likely to destroy one or more of the rocks while breaking stuff with the player IS and also that if you have broken too many rocks in-sector at the same time with the player IS then the game engine may re-amalgamate all of them into bigger (very low yield) rocks in order to protect sector framerates.

In AP, rocks below full-sized asteroids that are broken and then mined or collected are gone for good.

[ancienthighway]

AFAICT in AP the key is to stay IZ: I don't think (see sig for caveat) the rocks will be cleared if <playership> is OOZ.

This is the behavior in TC, not AP. It's what allowed endless nividium collection in King;s End, as long as the player ship stayed out of the sector.

I thought that AP only fixed the /OOZ/ mining behaviour (to prevent that exploit), but fairynuff; I can't check

That's correct. In TC if you are in sector, rocks are destroyed. I think, but I could be wrong, that the rocks would eventually respawn. If you are out of sector, rocks aren't destroyed for endless mining.

In AP, rocks are destroyed whether you are in sector or out of sector. I haven't noticed any respawn yet, so as far as I can tell, when they are gone, they are gone.

@Sinxar, make sure you have full shields and a Triplex Scanner on the miners. They will collide with the rocks if you are in sector (and maybe if you are out of sector). As rocks are cleared from one part of the sector, they should move to another part within the scan range.

[RAVEN.myst]

Collisions (of any sort) only happen in-sector. Also, I've noticed something interesting: the chances of "mobile mining accidents" increase significantly when you are actively looking at the ship or area (not sure which, exactly), while in-sector. At first I dismissed it as observer bias, but keeping track of ships' shields while viewing them and while "averting my eyes" definitely yielded different results (though I can't completely rule out random coincidence). The long and short of it is: it may be advisable to avoid visual contact with the mining area if unavoidably in-sector (which is bound to happen if mining in the same sector as one's HQ.)

Incidentally, if using multiple mining ships, ancienthighway's suggestion of Mine Minerals is a good one (I completely forgot about that), though you may find yourself having to reissue the command from time to time (if I recall correctly, siphoning out the mined materials as fast as they come in, not allowing the storage to fill up, keeps the command from terminating, but glitches do occasionally happen.) I always wished that the "Mine Minerals" command would run continuously, without terminating, and that's why I seldom used it, instead setting up elaborate CLS2-based mining hierarchies.

[Sinxar]

I just tried Mine Minerals and it isn't working for what I need it to do. They mine fine. However they load up, dock then stop the command.

[RAVEN.myst]

I just tried Mine Minerals and it isn't working for what I need it to do. They mine fine. However they load up, dock then stop the command.

That's exactly the problem I have with that command (I *really* wish it could run continuously.) What you COULD try is to use a CLS2 to remove the ore from them, and then if they never reach the target amount, they keep going. Of course, the problem with this is that then you're back to CLS...

EDIT: Another thought: you could send in a bunch of mining ships and issue "Mine and trade minerals" command - however, this comes with its own issues. For one thing, you don't control the location, so while they will start in that sector, after they've offloaded, they may wander elsewhere to continue mining. Secondly, they will sell their wares to clients at their own discretion (maybe upping the buying price for ore at your HQ will entice them - I'm not sure.) Thirdly, while they may use their jumpdrives, they will NOT refuel of their own accord, so after a while they need babysitting or you live with greatly slowed operations. Basically, the problem is that you have virtually no control over what they do or how they do it.

[Alan Phipps]

I just tried Mine Minerals and it isn't working for what I need it to do. They mine fine. However they load up, dock then stop the command.

One thing that can ease that situation (although not solve it) is to set 'notify when command completed' on your mineral miners and then you are informed when they are either full and stop, or they dock then unload and stop. Unfortunately this does not work with 'collect rocks' ships as that command does not stop when they are full.

[Snafu_X3]

Just to clear things up a bit:[...]

TVM for that clarification Alan!

I just tried Mine Minerals and it isn't working for what I need it to do. They mine fine. However they load up, dock then stop the command.

That's exactly the problem I have with that command (I *really* wish it could run continuously.) What you COULD try is to use a CLS2 to remove the ore from them, and then if they never reach the target amount, they keep going. Of course, the problem with this is that then you're back to CLS...

It's a lesser problem (WRT CLS2 handling/hiring) but it's still a problem

Another (partial?) solution may be to homebase your 'mine minerals' ships to other 'storage/warehouse' ships such as TMs (or stations, eg a redundant ore mine with 0 production - turn it off* ); at least that way you only have to go to 1 (or however many homebases you define) ship/station to re-issue commands as the homebased ships will always try to drop off their wares at their homebase if its capacity will take the cargo. I suspect a Transporter Device will help efficiency (ie speed of cargo transfer) here; preferably on both ships but if limited you can get away with just 1.. but I forget which (source or destination) ship to equip it to:(

* don't forget you can tow the behemoth around the zone to follow the miners.. in fact, that may be another good way to destroy rocks, provided you keep an eye on the towed mine's health ofc..

[RAVEN.myst]

... you can tow the behemoth around the zone to follow the miners.. in fact, that may be another good way to destroy rocks...

Oh, cute! That would smash a swath kilometres wide and high (albeit slowly) - talk about efficiency, hehehe

[ancienthighway]

It's been so long since I've used Mine Minerals, I forgot about that unload and stop "feature". I've been using the script Prospector for many years which sends the miner back out for more minerals, ore, silicon, ice, or nividium.

Bullwinkle also has a script improving Mine Minerals Mk2 which will send the miners back on their way.