NEWS: X Rebirth VR Edition, Updates and X4

refuse · Post by **refuse** » Wed, 22. Mar 17, 20:28

I realy would like to come back classic flight controll with invert mouse support for better feeling from driving the ships and more ships to controll personally
also different type of cameras 1st person for combat, 3rd person (non combat) and also cinematic camera which good for long distances - its look good in X3
no stupid highways with stupid music

gbjbaanb · Post by **gbjbaanb** » Thu, 23. Mar 17, 00:22

Dupin wrote:
gbjbaanb wrote: This is what screwed Rebirth, lets not make the same mistake.
What is the mistake here? Do you really think that the interiors and the NPC model made the game worse?

Yes. it wasn't well implemented, turned out to be repetitive and boring, and took a lot of development effort away from other areas (such as multiple ships) that we could have had instead.

What would you rather have - a developer creating station interiors or ship interiors? You can't have both as ES doesn't have the money to make both.

ZaphodBeeblebrox · Post by **ZaphodBeeblebrox** » Thu, 23. Mar 17, 09:02

I would rather have both, obviously with more depth in both.

Personally I don't know anything about EGO's finances or their financial model or their ability to get additional capital.

Companies can grow in size and they can hire temporary staff, or get other companies to provide assets.

The argument that they can't do this or that or this and that based on size or ability to get cash is spurious.

Dupin · Post by **Dupin** » Thu, 23. Mar 17, 13:46

gbjbaanb wrote:You can't have both as ES doesn't have the money to make both.

Nobody knows this, except for Egosoft himself. But given that X Rebirth sales were high, I tend to think that developers have no problems with finances. In fact, they work simultaneously on two new projects now!

This is not a question of money at all, but of people who know how to do certain things. Yes, Egosoft is a small studio, but firstly even small studios are able to make big projects (look at Infinity Battlescape, Space Engineers, Dual Universe etc.), and secondly, experienced and capable people work in Egosoft...

ZaphodBeeblebrox wrote:The argument that they can't do this or that or this and that based on size or ability to get cash is spurious.

Absolutely agree!

Post by **CBJ** » Thu, 23. Mar 17, 13:53

Dupin wrote:This is not a question of money at all, but of people who know how to do certain things.

Sorry, but this is completely wrong. While gbjbaanb may not be quite right about the details, the principle he is putting forward is absolutely correct. Every decision to include something in a game is a decision not to include something else. That is a fundamental fact in almost every game development project. It is also why players saying "no" to others' ideas about what should be in the game is not simply them being awkward, and why "make it an option" usually isn't a solution to that disagreement.

monster.zero · Post by **monster.zero** » Thu, 23. Mar 17, 14:24

Station/spaceship interiors is just crazy talk.

The only way I see interiors again in a X game, is a Kickstarter with stated goals:
2 million--- multiple ships.
5 million---- ship interiors.
10 million---- station interiors

...ETC...

Let the gamers decide with their wallets. $$

Post by **Nanook** » Thu, 23. Mar 17, 17:50

monster.zero wrote:Station/spaceship interiors is just crazy talk.

The only way I see interiors again in a X game, is a Kickstarter with stated goals:
2 million--- multiple ships.
5 million---- ship interiors.
10 million---- station interiors

...ETC...

Let the gamers decide with their wallets. $$

Disagree. They've already laid the groundwork. What it needs now is further development. I personally like the idea of walking around in stations and ships. It gives the game more life than being a disembodied entity in a ship. Granted, the current implementation is a bit simplistic and boring. But I don't think they should throw it all away just because they didn't get it quite right the first time. That's just wasteful.

monster.zero · Post by **monster.zero** » Thu, 23. Mar 17, 18:29

Nanook wrote:
monster.zero wrote:Station/spaceship interiors is just crazy talk.

The only way I see interiors again in a X game, is a Kickstarter with stated goals:
2 million--- multiple ships.
5 million---- ship interiors.
10 million---- station interiors

...ETC...

Let the gamers decide with their wallets. $$
Disagree. They've already laid the groundwork. What it needs now is further development. I personally like the idea of walking around in stations and ships. It gives the game more life than being a disembodied entity in a ship. Granted, the current implementation is a bit simplistic and boring. But I don't think they should throw it all away just because they didn't get it quite right the first time. That's just wasteful.

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to explorer the interiors of space stations/ships....but that takes a LOT of art and design time! Star Citizen would have been finished 2 years ago if they didn't model the interiors of stations/ship.

I would NOT have walking in the x series...Only EVA/floating...no artificial gravity.....use the human body just like a space ship. That'd cut down on development time!

Denaut · Post by **Denaut** » Fri, 24. Mar 17, 10:32

CBJ wrote:
Dupin wrote:This is not a question of money at all, but of people who know how to do certain things.
Sorry, but this is completely wrong. While gbjbaanb may not be quite right about the details, the principle he is putting forward is absolutely correct. Every decision to include something in a game is a decision not to include something else. That is a fundamental fact in almost every game development project. It is also why players saying "no" to others' ideas about what should be in the game is not simply them being awkward, and why "make it an option" usually isn't a solution to that disagreement.

To reinforce this, when it comes to game development budget matters for everything. There is no game, no matter how large or expensive, where the cost of a feature doesn't play a central role in its design or whether it even gets made at all. Every feature implemented is another feature not done.

Denaut · Post by **Denaut** » Fri, 24. Mar 17, 10:37

Nanook wrote:Disagree. They've already laid the groundwork. What it needs now is further development. I personally like the idea of walking around in stations and ships. It gives the game more life than being a disembodied entity in a ship. Granted, the current implementation is a bit simplistic and boring. But I don't think they should throw it all away just because they didn't get it quite right the first time. That's just wasteful.

I think you are drastically underestimating the costs associated with implementing interiors properly. Properly being not just the art assets, but content, gameplay, and additional supporting features.

We can ballpark it though. A minimal team of 6 people @ an industry average cost of 11k Eur per month for say a 2 year development means the floor of this feature (with meaning to the game) is probably around 1.6M Eur. And it could easily be 5 or 10 times that.

Post by **Nanook** » Fri, 24. Mar 17, 16:49

The real point, though, is whether Egosoft believes a feature is integral to their game design and vision. If it's something that they perceive will help sell the game to more players, then it very likely will be implemented. And if enough people express their interest in such a feature, then you can bet Egosoft will do their best to implement said feature, no matter what it is, if it's in line with their vision. It's not useful for us to debate the monetary cost. It's our job to tell the devs what we'd like, and let them go from there.

rulerofallcheese · Post by **rulerofallcheese** » Fri, 24. Mar 17, 17:20

Egosoft - even though X Rebirth was a controversial game, I fell in love with many of the advancements to the core mechanics. I really hope these carry into the X4!

For example, boarding was tremendously improved in X rebirth compared to older games. In X3R/TC/AP, boarding was a huge pain even using an M7M (Missile Frigate with boarding pods).

I'm also a massive fan of the steering mode where you can cut power to your engines, and spin your ship to the side while still gliding on the original vector. This was introduced in one of your X Rebirth patches and was a truly fantastic improvement!

Drones were also a great new spin on an old idea (there were guided missiles in previous x games, but nothing as sophisticated as drones). However, your copilot NEEDS TO DEFEND your ship while you are controlling the drones! No sitting still in space and getting shot at

Anyways, always loved your games Egosoft. Thanks for keeping the community alive!

specialsymbol · Post by **specialsymbol** » Fri, 24. Mar 17, 19:50

I can only add to this. I still don't get why people dislike Rebirth that much. Well, might be because I only started playing with Home of Light..

I love that highway concept. It reminds me of Freelancer. On the other hand I somehow miss the traffic from X³ in some sectors and some features. A combination would be just perfect. Oh, and one thing: please bring back the ship models from X³. They were awesome and I miss them badly. They were iconic! Just think of the various Argon M3 versions.

Axeface · Post by **Axeface** » Sat, 25. Mar 17, 21:56

specialsymbol wrote: Oh, and one thing: please bring back the ship models from X³. They were awesome and I miss them badly. They were iconic! Just think of the various Argon M3 versions.

I really hope they bring back the old designs too, but update them. They dont need much, most are such great designs. Imagine an updated Argon Colossus with modern graphics. Landing on it and talking a walk from the docking bay to the bridge and giving the commander (that you have hired and trained) an order. It would be glorious. If it is a true X4 it could even be your flagship

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Mon, 27. Mar 17, 03:47

I have reviewed similar products made by ES competitors: Elite dangerous, Star Citizen, No Man's Sky.
I was surprised to see how advantages they are. Never mind. We are here to support ES with their new development and hopefully X4 will beat competitors'.
What are the strong points of X3/TC|AP (Egosoft)?

1. fantastic view of deep space: planets, stations' exterior, ships, asteroids. It is simply nice to visit different segments and enjoy the view.
So far none of the above games can compete with X on this point YET. The developers promise to catch up and give players better universe in next versions but ES is far ahead.
2. nice music, sound effects. It is very important and so far I have never seen any complains about this point from players.
3. game customization - ability to easily mode the game/use scripts to fit your needs. From the early games - "thereshouldbewings" I utilized the feature extensively and loved it. It is not the case with their competitors - online games cannot allow this to be used for obvious reasons.

AI with various setings, game plots - have both negative and positive comments but they are ok to my mind.
Ability to pilot different ship - out of the dispute. X3 had it and many competiotrs have it. One ship to pilot was the killer of BornDead (XR) as I mentioned earlier.

What are things that are not ok with X ?

1. Skins of NPCs - either in XR or in the plots. Dialogues - dull. ES does not have in-house expertise or 3rd party if they were hired did not deliver.
The lack of this feature may keep ESproducts in very thin niche (space fly simulator). It is (in 2017) quite common in games to have good looking NPCs with non-linear dialogue options.
2. Landing on planets|space stations (interior). A different level of development which can bring extra cash as DLC but again if properly done. Check Elite dangerous.
3. On-line multiplayer. ES will not do it. It may bring a lot of cash (I know how much money is made for a company in this type of games) but requires different focus and may be a totally new ground for ES. It is an absolutely different beast. It is not negative for X.
4. VR becomes a nowdays standard. One-two years and 60% of players will have VR sets (the prices are going down). Many games I mentioned already have this option. But... it should be implemented properly - changes to interior of ships is a kinda must. It is in the negative list just for a simple reason - ES has not done it yet and is behind competitors.

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Mon, 27. Mar 17, 04:16

specialsymbol wrote:I can only add to this. I still don't get why people dislike Rebirth that much. Well, might be because I only started playing with Home of Light..

I love that highway concept. It reminds me of Freelancer. On the other hand I somehow miss the traffic from X³ in some sectors and some features. A combination would be just perfect. Oh, and one thing: please bring back the ship models from X³. They were awesome and I miss them badly. They were iconic! Just think of the various Argon M3 versions.

I did not like the highways because I did not find a logical explanation of physics. I do understand that we operate in science fiction but there are borders. Jumpdrive in my view is possible - time-space change (as well as jumpgates). ETA is very possible (you can imagine that you are going into hybernation - falling into induced sleep). Gliding is well possible. But highways? It destroys the game feeling especially when they intoduce the mini-game.
One can say that the highways are the paths of moving particles (plasma, photons, etc.) but then it will require enormous amount of energy to create it, much more than simply to move a ship (so to say it will not be practical to create it). In X3 you have all sort of ships moving around and it was cool.

Solomon Short · Post by **Solomon Short** » Mon, 27. Mar 17, 08:45

My biggest problems with the Highways are:

1) I don't understand the routing, it's seems almost random, certainly not any sort of atttempt at efficiency.

2) Since they pass through the middle of zones it's all too easy to fall into them in the middle of a dog-fight with enemies coming out of them, I really with they required some sort of activator to use.

monster.zero · Post by **monster.zero** » Mon, 27. Mar 17, 15:28

I hate the highways! I want my freedom.

I want a ship and a star to steer her by. Not some magical anti-science highway!

It's like a bad first person shooter with corridors. go down this hallway and into this room...ugggh!

Was Xrebirth suppose to be in space?

1 dimension travel systems should be left to Mario and other platform games.

Post by **UniTrader** » Mon, 27. Mar 17, 19:24

you are free to move from zone to zone without tubes. May take a bit longer, or may be actually faster for short routes, depends on circumstates.
Also Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

monster.zero · Post by **monster.zero** » Mon, 27. Mar 17, 23:20

UniTrader wrote:you are free to move from zone to zone without tubes. May take a bit longer, or may be actually faster for short routes, depends on circumstates.
Also Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Oh I know...but the space bases are all on a certain level and no reason to go up/down/left/right.
Just going forward or backward will get you to all the spaceports/cities.

Wouldn't mind if a space 'tube' went in the up or down direction once or twice.

If thats advanded technology! Then I want no part of it!!

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

NEWS: X Rebirth VR Edition, Updates and X4

some X3 feature please come back!!!