Capital Ship Fleet Navigation frustrations in Rebirth

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Scoob
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Capital Ship Fleet Navigation frustrations in Rebirth

Post by Scoob » Thu, 9. Mar 17, 23:49

Hi all,

Not been able to play in an age, but decided to fire up Rebirth again for the first time this year.

However, I appear to be encountering the same issues once again that I've encountered in pretty much every X game to date - Capital Ship Fleet navigation totally sucks.

I'd hoped Rebirth would be different, especially after the teaser vids showing them working on Capital Ship navigation. However, it's still basically totally broken.

As an example, I've finally built up to a decent fleet, an Arawn with three Taranis. Nice. However, they are totally incapable of moving as a group. Just now I took an assassination mission with the target in a neighbouring Zone. I'm aboard my Arawn - I like to role-play as the Admiral as I cannot be the Captain - and order it to fly to the target Zone. It begins to turn oh so slowly - it can turn faster, it just chooses not to evidently - until it's finally pointing in the right direction. It starts to boost and, moments later stops, it slowly turns in seemingly random directions for a good minute, before facing back in the original direction again and boosting....and it drops out of boost again.

I've literally sat here through ten minutes of this - the target ship got destroyed and I "failed" the mission.

Now, we appear to be back to the usual suspects when it comes to navigation glitches, i.e. the Taranis in my fleet were too close, triggering some sort of collision avoidance it appears. Was this not tested? Every X game seems to fail late-game, when you've finally earnt that fleet as it's always been impossible to get them to move properly. Thing are even worse if I'm near a station, but I was in fairly open space with a clear LoS to the target Zone *sigh*

I thought I'd had some success earlier - trying this move order several times after reloading - when my Arawn boosted a good two ship lengths (of the Arawn) away from the nearest Taranis. However, my Arawn still dropped out of boost. It wasn't turning, I know that can cause boost-drops, it as on the right vector and just stopped.

The subordinate system for ships seems pretty cool, give an order to the leader and the subordinates follow it too. Nice. However, it doesn't actually work of course. Due to the same old X game issues, I have to break up my fleets and order them individually, micro-managing fleet movements in effect. Now, the broadcast command and multi-selection GUI addition have made this MUCH easier, so it's indeed a fairly viable work-around, but it IS a work-around as the "proper" fleet method doesn't seem to work.

Yes, I came here to vent a little as I appear to have been experiencing these issues since X2! X4 really needs to be better than this, and I hope the changes trickle down to Rebirth.

Note: I've tried various mods, but at their heart they still appear to use the same basic inter-Zone movement mechanics, meaning groups of Capital ships get stuck in an avoidance loop and never get to their destination.

You know, this reminds me of the classic martial arts movies of the early Bruce Lee / Jackie Chan era... you know the ones where the bad guys queue up to attack the hero in sequence, rather than all at once....well, that's how my fleet behaves! Even if I do get a fleet to move off at relatively the same moment - say I order them to come to me from a remote Zone - then they'll still randomly stop on their way and it's rare the entire fleet shows up.

So, I have a grand fleet - well, grand-ish lol - yet it is of little use to me. I want to use overwhelming power on a target, cos it's fun and cool, but my fun is constantly being scuppered.

What are others experiences with Fleet movements? Is it working for you? Are you like me and wanting to be on your flagship, rather than having it trailing after you like a lost puppy? It seems my preferred play-style as a fleet commander just doesn't work.

Ah, venting complete, I feel somehow lighter :)

Edit: you know I forgot to add a fairly key, yet counter-intuitive tip: If you have your faster ships as the leaders, they have a fair (50/50) chance of moving out of collision influence of their flower followers. I've often used a Light Sul as my personal transport, with larger, slower ships following. It means I cannot lead the flight in my flagship of course, but at least my fleet has a reasonable chance of actually getting there!

Scoob.

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Post by hisazul » Fri, 10. Mar 17, 06:52

Id way for next patch before playing XR, they are supposed to fix some of the god awfully broken behaviours introduced in 4.0

Atm, your Arawn isn't worth a damn thing. I watched >>>I+Arawn+Fulmekronx2<<< lose to a single K. It took about 5 hours but yeah they did lose eventually.
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Re: Capital Ship Fleet Navigation frustrations in Rebirth

Post by BigBANGtheory » Fri, 10. Mar 17, 11:04

Scoob wrote:So, I have a grand fleet - well, grand-ish lol - yet it is of little use to me. I want to use overwhelming power on a target, cos it's fun and cool, but my fun is constantly being scuppered.

What are others experiences with Fleet movements? Is it working for you? Are you like me and wanting to be on your flagship, rather than having it trailing after you like a lost puppy? It seems my preferred play-style as a fleet commander just doesn't work.
Dude hello been saying this for years 8)

Its never worked in any X series game ever, you can build and own a fleet of ships but you cannot command them effectively nor is there late game content and objectives to challenge you in many cases. There is a suggestion that ES will take a proper look at this for X4 (implying something is in development or in the pipe) I hope we can have a meaningful discussion on this topic before anything is finalised. I personally believe the answer is having a dedicated tactical display on the bridge of a capital ship (your flagship effectively) based around the design/strengths of the Homeworld UI.

That way you keep a logical seperatation between the role of the pilot (fighter, trader, explorer) and the commander to address the 'don't turn X series into an RTS' nonsense. In a similar vane one could also suggest having a dedicated interface for commercial operations accessed from a station or your home base.

It is easy to say or voice an opinion on what doesn't work in a game, I think if you can explain what would work that is more useful feedback and if the developer decides not to follow that path then that's their risk/decision to make. I think expanding into strategic and tactical gameplay not only plugs a long standing hole in the X Universe gameplay it also offers a unique selling point and experience over ED, SC, SPG2 and pretty much any other major space sim known and that's a good thing for ES.

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Post by RodentofDoom » Fri, 10. Mar 17, 12:49

Issue the orders when your are out of zone to your fleet.

iirc collisions states for your ships are disabled at that point.

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 10. Mar 17, 17:54

Which negates his preferred playstyle of being the admiral on his flagship. :P

Scoob, how is your fleet set up? Are all the ships in your squad, or are they subordinate to your flagship? If the former, that's likely the problem. Try making them all subordinate to your flagship and see if that helps. Of course, that may cause other issues, such as a delay in following until you're in the next zone, but at least you'll get there, eventually. :mrgreen:
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Post by Scoob » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 15:40

Nanook wrote:Which negates his preferred playstyle of being the admiral on his flagship. :P

Scoob, how is your fleet set up? Are all the ships in your squad, or are they subordinate to your flagship? If the former, that's likely the problem. Try making them all subordinate to your flagship and see if that helps. Of course, that may cause other issues, such as a delay in following until you're in the next zone, but at least you'll get there, eventually. :mrgreen:
I've tried multiple ways of doing it, though a flat command structure - basically using multi-select and broadcasting the command to all ships - is the most reliable.

@BigBANGTheory: I don't think this is a case of necessarily suggesting a new way to approach this problem, rather to make the current implementation work.

Logically, the cascading command system from the leader through to all subordinates is quite elegant in theory. You issue orders to the various "fleet leaders" and subordinate vessels follow suit. Move commands should be co-ordinated and in formation - one not so tight it trigger collision avoidance - and combat engagements should play to the strengths/weakness of the various vessels involved, taking advantage of long-range attack ability, speed, armour etc.

As it stand, this is still woefully broken. It's only when I run third party scripts - giving my ships the micro-jump ability - that they can actually move affectively in combat. Without it they lumber along, spending more time trying to avoid their squad mates than fly towards the target. Quite frankly that's rubbish.

I was fairly in favour of the "one ship" approach when announced, due to the promise of being able to give orders to intelligent Captains, while riding along so I get to see the fireworks. When I was flying around on my first Capital Vessel - the starting Rahanas - this worked well. Now being on my Arawn protected by three Taranis, it should be epic but it sucks.

To be clear, the Arawn, likely due to a size, is most of the problem when it's part of a fleet. A couple of Taranis with a Balor thrown in, with me on the lead Taranis, works a lot better.

Once in combat, due to the combat mods I use, my small Arawn + 3x Taranis fleet it VERY potent. However, getting them to the fight can often prove impossible unless I'm prepared to leave the bridge and fly OOZ. That's crazy.

Once again in an X game, it's core basic functionality that's letting things down. If those ships moved coherently as a group things would be fantastic. As it is, this boost for a second, stop, wobble around, get back on vector, boost, stop, wobble & repeat behaviour actively discourages ANY use of fleets where the player is on one of the ships.

Rebirth is a different game to those which came before, a difference that made fleet manoeuvres that much more critical. There's no option for me to jump into the helm of my Arawn to "fix" it's borked state. I've tried ordering the Taranis ahead of me - which defeats the point - but they often struggle to get around my Arawn.

I do love the X series, which is a given considering I've been here since the start, but basic fleet / group movements need to be fixed. The interface to give the orders being a little clunky is fine, however, said order then not being carried out is not.

Note: I don't know how formation positioning works, but I suspect the "formation points" around larger ships such as the Arawn need to be revised.

Scoob.

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Post by Observe » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 17:08

The best approach for me, seems to be to command each ship separately as part of my squad - rather than assigning them to some other ship to protect.

If I have an Arawn and several destroyers encountering some powerful enemy fleet for example, I order all my ships to attack. The fastest/closest engage first. I keep a close eye on them and order individual ships to retreat when it looks like they are close to hull damage.

If my fleet is strong enough, I will vanquish the enemy in spite of some of my ships having retreated. Otherwise, if I see a losing proposition, I pull everyone out to catch their breath.

I go on the basis that fleet operations are irrevocably broken in Rebirth and leave it at that. Alas, consequently, I seldom play this game. In fact, I really haven't ever played it seriously; because of the many issues with it that persist to this day.

I fear I may be getting too old to be around by the time the next game works properly. :(

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Post by Scoob » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 19:16

I'm largely doing the same as you Observe, manually coordinating my fleet. Such micromanagement becomes tiring after a while though, especially when a ship misbehaves changing the outcome of the battle.

While simple inter-zone movement was the key frustration I was experiencing, and prompted me to make this post. Silly behaviour where long-range yet delicate ships such as the Balor still insist on getting up close and personal to the likes of a Xenon K. I do wonder why smart behaviour for ships is missing even now. Modders have done wonders, but there appears to be a limit in what behaviour they can influence.

Again, smart behaviour of AI controlled ships is so very important in a game where you cannot simply take direct control. I recall in the development videos being told how we'd have amazing control over our commanded ships, being able to ask them to attack from a given side of the target vessel, order them to disable rather than kill, but none of this is in-game.

If we were given finer control we could micromanage ship behaviour more effectively without having to do this manually on an order-by-order basis. However, so much behaviour still appears to be obscured, with insufficient feedback on what a ship is trying to do. Shame.

I'm hoping things get better, possibly stuff is being addressed in the current 4.10 beta. I had intended to give it a go myself but I've not really had the time of late, plus grinding through a vanilla game start lacks appeal if I'm honest.

Scoob.

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Post by UniTrader » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 20:10

Scoob wrote:While simple inter-zone movement was the key frustration I was experiencing, and prompted me to make this post.
Have you tried my Vanilla Movement Replacement? i have written the Movement Scripts from Scratch and was able to safely replace the core movement Script of the Game with my core Script. Also i managed to partially implement the included Movement Coordination in the Vanilla Scripts without possibly breaking them. Its limited to coordinate Boosts, Jumps and Gate Passages because of this though, no InZone-Movement. (it basically is implemented, but integrating it into Vanilla is not as trivial as the bigger movement Steps. Also it still needs more refinement - so currently only used internally by my Managers' Patrol/Escort Ships)
Scoob wrote:Modders have done wonders, but there appears to be a limit in what behaviour they can influence.
i think the biggest problem is maintaining compatibility (as in making the mod addable and removeable). there are basically 4 routes you can go, each with up- and downsides.
1. Small (number) changes to the Vanilla Scripts =>
+ fast development time
+ forward and backward compaatible
+ may even survive Patches without need to update
- VERY limited options
2. Bigger changes to vanilla Scripts, including adding and removing blocking actions and labels
+ fast development
+ huge changes possible
± a bit more complicated to get forward compatibility
- no complete restructures, as this would break compatibility
- not backwards compatible
-- the next update to the related file will break it!
3. working on Copies of Vanilla Scripts
+ possibly fast development
+ anything within the scripting engine possible
+ very Compatible and easily removeable
± requires much effort for a restructure
± can be tricky to redirect Vanilla Scripts to the Copies
- Improvements added by ego to the original Scripts must be located manually ported to the copies
4. writing own Scripts from Scratch
+ Absolute Freedom how you Structure your stuff
+ anything within the scripting engine possible
± can be tricky to redirect Vanilla Scripts to the Copies
- Improvements added by ego to the original Scripts must be located manually ported to the copies
- Long development Time in comparision, because you have to learn what the whole Script does (and also debug it), not just the part you want to improve

i think most people have gone route 1 or 2, a few are route 3. I have decided for route 4 a long time ago and the results are slowly emerging..

crap, didnt want to make this this long :S
Scoob wrote:in a game where you cannot simply take direct control.
I dont think this is really needed, because i have released a mod for this more than a month ago, and so far only one User has commented on it (although extensively via PM). Not bad for a tertiary side-project, but it makes me wonder if the users really want what they constantly demand here.. (and no, its not a recently discovered method.. i publically theorized about it early 2014 and offered explainig details how to implement it to anyone - no one was interested)
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Post by Scoob » Sun, 12. Mar 17, 23:05

Hi UniTrader, thanks for your reply.

I've been away from the game since last year, so have missed any recent additions. I'm keen to try your movement scripts as the issues I was experiencing had put me off continuing....sadly my long-term games always seem to get scuppered by something.

I assume this is the script you're referring to? In my current long-term game I'm using CWIR so I hope there are no script clashes.

Time has run out again today, so hopefully I'll get an opportunity to play in the week.

Cheers,

Scoob.

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Post by BigBANGtheory » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 10:13

UniTrader wrote:
Scoob wrote:in a game where you cannot simply take direct control.
I dont think this is really needed, because i have released a mod for this more than a month ago, and so far only one User has commented on it (although extensively via PM). Not bad for a tertiary side-project, but it makes me wonder if the users really want what they constantly demand here.. (and no, its not a recently discovered method.. i publically theorized about it early 2014 and offered explainig details how to implement it to anyone - no one was interested)
I agree you don't neccassarily need direct or remote control of anything larger than a drone and the playership, but you do need the option of direct command of ships and squads imho. The obvious case is where you see the AI doing something you don't like and need to say <stop what you are doing> and <follow my new orders> possibly <carry on what you were doing>. The other obvious case is where your character is on your flagship/command ship and you want to command but not pilot it.

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Post by Scoob » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 14:00

BigBANGtheory wrote: I agree you don't neccassarily need direct or remote control of anything larger than a drone and the playership, but you do need the option of direct command of ships and squads imho. The obvious case is where you see the AI doing something you don't like and need to say <stop what you are doing> and <follow my new orders> possibly <carry on what you were doing>. The other obvious case is where your character is on your flagship/command ship and you want to command but not pilot it.
That's the kicker though isn't it? When something totally bugs out, direct control would save the day. I actually used to try to play prior X games in a similar way once I had a Capital Ship. I'd not fly directly, but rather issue orders to it to simulate being a Captain rather than a Pilot. Of course I'd run into issues in certain Sectors with asteroids or one of those massive Terran stations, forcing me to take control (usually via keyboard) to get where I needed to go. Of course any following Capitals would be going crazy still. It was still fun occasionally jumping into a fighter or M6 for a bit on hands-on combat of course.

When I get the chance, I'm going to be trying UniTraders movement scripts, it certainly sounds like they'll eliminate some of my frustrations.

Scoob.

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Post by Scoob » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 17:26

@UniTrader

I've had a bit of time this afternoon, so I've taken your nav scripts "UT CaC Base Navscripts" and installed them but I'm not noticing any difference with my Arawn + 3x subordinate Taranis group. Do I have the correct scripts?

Note: I'm already using your "UT CaC Option - No Angular Limit" and "utfix_nav_toride_wg" scripts, both of which work as expected.

Let me know if I'm doing something wrong.

Edit: Ahem...downloading while tired doesn't work....I think I picked the wrong file lol. I now have "utac_opt_global_movement_replacement" :oops:

Edit 2: Hmm. Well, I think I have the right scripts now but behaviour remains unchanged. Here's what happens both without and with the movement script installed:

My Arawn is parked in space with three Taranis heading towards it, one assumes to try to form up as I've just added them to the Taranis's squad.

I order my Arawn to fly to a remote Zone. The vector for this Zone is basically aft, so the Arawn proceeds to turn. Once it's facing the right direction - with the three Taranis in close proximity - I get the random "underway" voice comm from the Arawn Captain. However, the Arawn does not enter boost but starts to perform some sort of avoidance manoeuvre. All the time the following Taranis appear to be trying to form up, and getting in the way.

After a couple of minutes, the Arawn gets back on-vector and boosts - gaining distance from the three Taranis - yet it drops out of boost after about three seconds and wobbles around a bit again.

It continues this cycle, and after the third attempt is placed nicely ahead of the three Taranis which appear to have entered a following formation about 80% of an Arawn length behind...however they catch up quickly when the Arawn goes off boost.

This continues for several minutes, the Arawn gradually getting a good three+ lengths away from the nearest Taranis, yet the boost -while lasting longer - still craps out within 5-6 seconds.

Eventually, the Arawn does sustain boost and get away. The Taranis take a while to follow, the Arawn being half-way to the destination before they start to boost. However, they drop out of boost prematurely - interestingly near the location the Arawn was at when the Taranis started to boost. They do wake up and start to boost again however.

So, I suspect I'm missing something as this behaviour is no different.

Edit 3: I entered a combat scenario where all ships were showing as trying to engage the Xenon K in the Zone, however, while my Arawn micro-jumped to engage (CWIR feature) the Taranis just boosted off out of the Zone. Most odd.

Scoob.

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Post by UniTrader » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 19:09

Regarding proper Install: did you install both linked Mods?
UT CAC Base Navscripts
and
UT CAC Opt Global Movement Replacement
because both are required (the first adds my navscripts themselves, but does not change any vanilla behavior, the latter does this and glues the vanilla Scripts to the former)

Regarding Fleeing (wich i think i read in your post): i dont change any combat behavior yet, the main focus of my Nav Scripts is to Coordinate Boost, Jump and Gate Passage behavior for Travel (and to maybe work around some oddities). Also for the replacement Script note that all existent Moveto-commands will complete vanilla-style first because i redirect to my scripts very early in the vanilla nav Script (i redirect the call for the undock part to maintain back- and forward compatibility)

Aloso note to boosts: they are supposed to be coordinated, not as fast as possible. the Leader Ship will first fly to the Start pos (as will the followers at the same time, because the start pos is announced in advance) and wait for all followers until they tell him they are ready and then gives a start signal which the prepared followers wait for. similiar for Jumping. planning to improve this coordination in such a way in the future that the Start positions dont overlap for many Ships, but sadly the safepos behavior is a bit stupid for that - it only accounts for the current position of other Objects, not where they will be in the future. this may interfere with the Start of the boost, but eventually everyone should be prepared.. (movement can also complete when not exactly at target pos, but as close as possible)

Regarding wobbling for avoidance during boost: should not happen because i have deactivated the collision avoidance during that... but there are some Sectors with pre-defined paths of which some contain slightly too sharp turns for boost... also alignment with the target path is a bit diffrent for boost and regular flight (in boost the ship looks further ahead for a pos to aim on the path than in regular flight causing a bit turning back and forward when switching boost on and off because of too sharp turns))
no idea how to change this without changing the balancing (which i dont intend to do yet) or removing the paths entirely (an idea which i dislike) - best use it somewhere with

* i am planning to maintain the relative Pos of the Ships eventually, but it turned out to be quite a headache in my initial tries, the Ships were usually spaced too far apart - so i left that out for now
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Post by Scoob » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 19:41

Hi UT,

I'll scrub everything and re-copy the scripts over, maybe something went screwy.

Wasn't actually commenting on fleeing behaviour, just general Zone to Zone movement. The "wobbling" I reported was in off-boost scenarios, i.e. ships drops out of boost, for whatever reason, wobble for a bit, before going back on-vector and boosting once more.

Let me clear things down & re-apply your scripts, it sounds like something didn't install properly maybe.

Update: Looks like something was copied wrong, likely my fault. Deleting the two folder then copying the content back directly from the archives seems to have worked.

Now my Arawn turns to the appropriate vector, boosts, knocking any Taranis out of the way and continues to boost not upset by the Taranis's proximity. This is good. It does leave the Taranis behind though, they're still turning to face the right direction while the Arawn is long gone....I'm on the Arawn to be clear :)

Update 2: Things certainly seem better, however, I still get following ships lagging behind a bit, plus they'll still sometimes drop out of boost part-way to the target Zone. Not seeing any boosting together type behaviour so far.

Additionally, my Arawn was commanded to travel to a Zone to the South-East of my current Zone. However, their was a station in the way. The navigation solution was to boost to the North-West, dropping out of boost regularly - ship was trying to turn - before finally getting on-vector an clean boosting to the destination Zone. Ship would have been better off just turning on the spot after that initial boost to get the station out of the flight path.

Update 3: Hmm, I'm getting the exact same issues again. My Arawn starts to boost, immediately drops out of boost, then proceeds to wobble around for several minutes going absolutely nowhere. Interestingly, the moment my Arawn boosts, then fails, the following Taranis start showing the boost effect even though they are facing in entirely the wrong direction. They'll continue to show this boost effect while travelling at normal speeds.

Ships do eventually boost off properly after much faffing around, but one or more of the Taranis will often get ahead of the lead Arawn.

I think I just manage to jinx any sort of fleet operations!

Scoob.

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Post by Scoob » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 20:59

Ok, while UniTraders tweaks certainly help, I still think Capital Ship Fleet movement is plain broken, if the player wants to actually be part of that fleet.

I've been testing simple multi-Zone patrol missions and my ships spend more time - by a large margin - wobbling around doing bugger all than they do actually patrolling the target Zones.

The Arawn seems by far the worst offender when it comes to simple Zone to Zone navigation, but I'd not be surprised if the other really large ships had similar issues. Being in a Taranis sees less problems, but I don't want to be on a Taranis, I want to be on the Arawn I've worked hard for.

Sadly, X Rebirth, just like its predecessors, rather than rewarding long-term play, just introduces new frustrations.

To be Clear here, we're talking in excess of half an hour for my Arawn to navigate between a handful of Zones (Sector: Molten Archon, six Zone Patrol) Much of that time I arrive too late for there to be anything to shoot, and the mission moves to the next Zone immediately. So I'd estimate 25 of those 30 minutes have been waiting for my Arawn to navigate. Even the following three Taranis regularly being left behind did not really help.

Doing these same missions early-game in a basic Light Sul were a joy, though I soon started facing foes that were beyond said Light Sul. Now I have a decent fleet, a good match for most Patrol / Incoming Attack type missions, I'm utterly unable to leverage that fleet due to fundamental game issues.

Btw: I'm fully aware that this might not be a significant issue for many, namely those who prefer flying the Skunk directly, or are Empire building - I've done both those play-styles numerous times. However, in my more recent game starts I've been attempting to role-play the "fleet commander" leveraging my military assets for money earning. Works fine initially, but fails totally when I scale up my fleet.

Scoob.

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Post by Observe » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 21:49

@Scoob: Are you running game version 4.10 (public beta)? There are quite a few improvement in commanding Capital ships. Using my Transcend gamestarts beta version with "Hunted" start, I am able to command the big ships fairly well without using any control mods.

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Post by birdtable » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 21:56

@ Scoob ... Had four Lyramekron as a fleet they were very able at prancing (wobbling) around also... Never found a solution/tactic that was repeatable, to many random factors... best to never have a fleet and avoid frustration although I must admit they did me proud in the monster Xenon I mission (memory fails me in what it was called)...... was an excellent battle but a rare one....The only fleet that was fun was made of 6 Balors and one Lyramekron, ride the leading Balor and enjoy the carnage ... and be ready not to go down with your ship. :)

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Post by Scoob » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 22:02

Observe wrote:@Scoob: Are you running game version 4.10 (public beta)? There are quite a few improvement in commanding Capital ships. Using my Transcend gamestarts beta version with "Hunted" start, I am able to command the big ships fairly well without using any control mods.
Well, I'd been trying to avoid "testing fatigue" and just enjoy my current modded game. However, in frustration, I've literally just switched to the beta - having deleted all installed mods. Feels weird being vanilla, but I wanted to see if there's any improvements. About to order myself and Arawn and some Taranis shortly :)

@birdtable: certainly suggests the issue is exaggerated for larger ships. Have you tried the 4.10 beta out of interest?

Scoob.

birdtable
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Post by birdtable » Mon, 13. Mar 17, 22:13

Hi Scoob,,, No have not tried 4.10, will wait "maybe" for proper release and then "maybe" try Transcend again just for testing purposes of course :)
Too many frustrations to play with a large scale game plan...

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