Help Setting Up First Factory Please :-)

[Bjazz68]

Hi everyone,
I have just saved around 2mill credits and I have decided to try to set up an ore mine in Presedent's End, however, when I flag down the captain of the Argon Mammoth and set up the transpoter hire, I did this in Argon Prime and then 'comm'ed' her again and asked her to dock at the ship yard. The indicator in the overview panel showed the Mammoth ship as yellow, but then I docked, waited and waited and she never docked along side. I then undocked and she had left the sector. This happened twice.

What am I doing wrong?

Cheers guys,
bjazz

[Cpt.Jericho]

You're doing everything right. But you must understand that the Mammoth is using AI (artificial incompetence) for docking at the shipyard. It can take some time seta-ing in Argon Prime until the Mammoth is in the right position and in the right direction to actually dock (and there are people wondering why those animal are extinct these days ).
Anyway, as soon as that TL has docked you'll be able to buy your mine and sent the transport to its destination. You just need to be patient.

For the why that stupid captain has left the sector: beats me.

Hint: If you have a trading computer installed on your ship you don't need to dock to buy from a shipyard. Trading computers are your friend - did I mention that you should get a trading computer? Trading computers make your life much easier - you can even buy more trading computers when you have a trading computer installed.

[Snafu_X3]

A temporary alternative to installing a TComp would be to have a spare ship dock at the Argon shipyard, then leave the sector. As you have an asset (a ship in this case) at the shipyard you should be able to remote-purchase this way; if this doesn't work simply hop back thru the gate (altho I think hired ships count as assets for this purpose)

Collision avoidance is turned off once you're OOS, making (cap)ship docking much faster (see Wiki link in sig below)

[Dreez]

A tip for when having TL's docking/undocking stations - Don't be in the same sector.
Be OOS and if you need to rush it, run SETA until the TL is docked.
The way the game works is that OOS, there are no "physical" objects in the way, it's all math and calculations... but once you're in sector, your TL will have to take in account.. all the structures when docking.

Nowdays when i know i'm getting alot of capitals docking in a sector, i make sure im not in it.

[Bjazz68]

Thank you very much guys for your helpful and funny responses, Dreez what you have said makes perfect sense and is probably what the issue is.

I'll try it again if I find the mammoth outside argon prime and I'll wait until it's shown as docked before I enter the sector.

cheers guys,

BJ

[jlehtone]

I have decided to try to set up an ore mine in Presedent's End

There are a lot of NPC Ore Mines that are frequently full. While that is not a proof of lacking demand, it does show that NPC ships do not haul Ore efficiently. If you will set a ship to sell the Ore, then you can get some profit.


As an alternative consider a Wheat Farm or Cattle Ranch in Argon Prime and jump range of 3 in the Factory settings. Like the Mine, the Farm and Ranch need only ECells. The wheat can be sold to Bakeries, Rhime Factories, and Distilleries; a wide market (although less profit per unit than with Ore).

One trader ship, started as Commercial Agent (CAG) in any of those will level up within initial hauling of energy so that it can start to sell too without help (if the station has enough cash at start).

[Dreez]

Also.. I see your account was registered 2008 so i don't know how much X3 you've played, but i'm gonna just assume you're new .

If you have your mind set on actually building an Ore-station in Orebelt, then go ahead and enjoy - but do be aware that you'll have to
constantly feed it with energy, which makes the profit less.

My advice, if you haven't make up your mind, is to save the money (if you just started playing) and continue to save your
money until you can buy a strong ship. The climb to that first really big upgrade it steep, but it can be made much easier
by simply running the Terran Plot.

I won't spoil too much, but let's just say that you'll be rewarded ships along the course of the Terran Plot that
will last you a long time...

My experience of building single factories isn't very good, and they always come with the extra cost of freighters to babysit it.

But that's just my opinion.

[zazie]

Two additional infos:
For being able to trade in a certain sector (here: Argon Prime) if you are Out of Sector, deploy a Navigation Satellite (~7000 cr). In combination with a Trading Computer you can see all prices at all times. By far the cheapest method to trade universewide.

An Ore Mine in Ore Belt is probably not the best method to take advantage of an Ore Mine. an ore Mine is an excellent 'tool' to build up reputation with races you are on bad terms with!
As an example: you want to make your reputation better with the Paranids then build an Ore Mine in a Sector closest to Paranid Sectors (or if possible in an Paranid Border Sector). Then set the price tag to lowest price. This will attract a lot of Paranid freighters bringing your rep slowly but steadily up. This can be of bigger value than maximazing your profit from one single station.
This might not be the fastest way to get better rep, but in some scenarios it ir the ONLY way, e.g. Goner rep or Yaki rep.

[Honved]

The bigger issue I see here is that the Argon Prime vicinity is usually not in real need of additional stations so much as for additional freighters to move what's already being produced.

There are several regions in the game where lack of a specific resource is seriously hampering production in several stations. Argon Prime is not one of those regions. There are several food source opportunities around Paranid Prime, and a real need for an Ore Mine in Argon's Aladna Hill sector or general vicinity. Additional food will also do well there, or in some Boron areas.

The real trick is to see what's constantly in short supply in a region, where the producing stations are mostly empty of some resource and there are few or no suppliers of that resource. In cases where factories are short on the resource, but the factories which produce it have plenty, transportation is the obvious bottleneck, and building another factory won't solve the underlying problem unless you add a freighter. The freighter could make the same money without the factory, and factories are generally less profitable than a good trader, despite their high cost. I usually build factories to support the economy, so my traders do better, rather than trying to make a lot of money with the factories.

The other option would be to intentionally set up your own factory to compete with the NPC factory in the area, and try to put it out of business by temporarily setting the selling price really low, but that's a major short-term expense, which you probably can't afford (yet).

[Bjazz68]

hi guys,
thank you for the additional advice, I appreciate it. It's true that I opened this account years ago because I had started playing X3 reunion, but I stopped soon after for obvious reasons. I started TC recently and decided to give a real go. I am surprised that what seems an obvious route to take may not be correct, I already have a Nova and 4 mercury freighters, 2 of them XL , 3 are auto trading. I have not started the terran plot yet as I have not been exploring enough to find the starting sector.

I guess I might just keep on trading then and saving like you suggest, although I can't think of what fighter ship I should be aiming to get, I had thought of fighting with wings in order to defeat the pirate groups that always kill me right away but wings is another learning curve I can't face yet.
I guess when the market system seems clearer to me and less overwhelming, I might try to place a factory, (in the right spot). Thanks again for all your help.

BJ

[Cpt.Jericho]

Wings and their management is a tricky thing in TC. The only trick I know against fighter groups is to counter them with at least an M7 (my personal favourite is the Split Panther). Let them try their best while your flaks chew them up.

[Honved]

Depending on which type of Nova you have, it may be an "average" fighter, or a well-rounded and pretty decent one. The basic Argon Nova is a bit sluggish against most pirate groups, but the Argon Nova Raider is considerably faster and more dangerous. Most of the M3s that are better than that are special mission rewards, unique ships, or otherwise not something you just pick up casually early in the game. That doesn't apply to the Pirate Nova Raider, which is relatively sluggish and mediocre.

If you spot an Argon Nova Raider with a yellow "cent" symbol above it, lurking near or behind one of the gates when you first enter a sector (it pays to check the sector map), you might consider buying it if the price is decent (a used ship at 90% condition or better may sell for significantly more than the cost of a new ship; one at 51% condition is close to free). If you manage to force a bail on a Pirate Nova Raider, sell it. The Argon version of the Nova Raider has the full combat capabilities of the slower models, yet has the higher speed without sacrificing a shield slot like most other Raider variants. Once you find Omicron Lyrae (it's nowhere near Argon Prime), you can start the Terran plotline, and purchase new Argon Nova Raiders there in the sector.

Dealing with multiple pirates at once either involves using missiles to take out one or two before melee (Wasps are ideal for killing pesky M5s), using a much more powerful ship (M6 or M7) to simply overwhelm them, bringing a heavy escort (a TM with decent weapons can make a good "anvil" to center a dogfight around, and anything bigger is a bonus), luring them into range of a sector defense fleet, or taking a couple of shots and then outrunning them only to turn and engage them one at a time after they're strung out 10+ kilometers apart. There are times when you have to combine the "Fight, Trade, Build, Think" aspects of the game in various ways to get best results, so thinking about how you're going to fight before you pull that trigger is often helpful.

[Dreez]

I'm not sure how much "help on the way" you would like on your way to build your empire,
but since they're just an advice and there's no "must follow this or die"... im gonna give a few
that might make it easier.

Spoiler

Show

Build Argon rep, explore the sectors and find Legend's Home - Buy the OTAS skiron M6,
equip with CIG's in the main and PRG's in the rest, load cargo with swarms and E-cells... good to go.

Once you've gotten the Skiron, start wrapping up harder and harder missions,
save up for an M7M and buy missiles - Hammerheads & Flails.. you'll need about 40 Hammers for your first cap, and 40 flails.

Find the unknown sector beneath Heaven's Assertion, where the Duke's hangs out,
there will be a Zeus spawning every 30min.. it has a few Nemesis's with it,
kill them with 3 hammers each (No paranid rep loss).
Once the escort nemesis's are dead, cap the Zeus and sell it in Heaven's Assertion..
you just gained aprox 70mil..

Build the missile complex.... all downhill from here.

But this is just a suggestion.

Also... Terran plot, i would advice to run it. But to gain access to their sectors,
you'll need to build rep with them in Heretic's End, or you'll find yourself dead when you enter their sectors.

Unless you start as Terran.

[Bjazz68]

Thanks Honved and Dreez,

your advice is great, I glanced the spoiler info but I am not sure I have the ability to do it step for step without getting confused, (lame excuse I know!) but I really do appreciate the information anyway.

I do like the idea of a better Nova ship and the mission plot and also engaging groups with missile tactics and also manoeuvring to separate them.

I think I might trade more and then give these things a go in turn and see how things turn out.

Thanks guys once again,

bj

[jlehtone]

I have not been exploring enough to find the starting sector.

I guess I might just keep on trading then and saving

I can't think of what fighter ship I should be aiming to get

I guess when the market system seems clearer to me and less overwhelming, I might try to place a factory

It would be logical to invest most of your credits into something that increses revenue. The initial investment to stations ties quite a lot of funds, but eventually they will pay themselves and more. Automated traders do have lower initial investment cost.

The stations have two features that free traders lack. First, as zazie wrote, an NPC ship that hates you can still dock and trade with your station, if the Price is Right. Your freighters cannot dock at hostile stations. Reputation affects profit opportunities.

Second, your factories can produce wares that you need more than what the NPC do provide. In TC there are minor plots that ask you to fetch some wares. Missiles are an another consumable that are nice to have.


For shorter term, you could try to fight in a fast M5. They are cheap to get, so the investment won't break your bank. Even if fighting turns out to be futile, such ship is ideal for exploration.

[hisazul]

I'm not going to add much that hasn't already been said except for:

1. - http://www.x3wiki.com/index.php/Universe_map#X_Universe
Lets you check each zone for good asteroids.

2. A followup to first point, the reason why you want a good asteroid and not just any random one. Once the mine is placed on asteroid IT'S FINAL. That asteroid is now permanently gone. Removed from the save and it will never come back again. This is the only permanent affect you have on the map, placement of mines. Don't be cheap and buy low grade mines and don't slap them in weird places. You can break asteroid collect your stuff and repeat that in 5-10 ingame days but once the mine is placed... that is that and done.

[Dreez]

Also, if you want to setup a profitable station. Look for a Teladi-system with
alot of factories that buys Teladianium, but with no such factory in them...
That's a good sector to place a Teranianium factory in.. sells like cupcakes,
and the only thing you need to feed them, is E-Cells.

[Bjazz68]

jlehtone, hisazul and dreez,

Thank you for your advice it has helped because I guess I was going to back completely away from factory placement for now.
I still think I might do the terran plot first and also try to find the Nova Raider ship which will improve my speed and fighting strength.

The asteroid and teladianium factories sound like a good idea, I will have to trade and save a lot in any case though, so it's still all about time I guess

Thanks again,
bj

[Dreez]

All in good time.. no rush, these are just pointers in what direction you could take.

The most important thing is that you enjoy the game in which manner you like it the most.

Valuable help is just a question away .

Just remember, that if you wanna start the Terran plot, you'll need to be allowed access into their systems.
You can get that by doing the missions offered by Terran NPCs in Heretic's end stations,
they have a... unique look to them.

IIRC you only need to gain 1 rank to be allowed access. Easy to check if you're allowed in or not .

[Snafu_X3]

@BJ: REMEMBER that X3:TC is not X3:R! /There is no all-encompassing plot/, mostly a lot of mini-plots that may or may not affect your game (eg Corps). I see this as a 'peaceful' game, relatively.. unless you decide otherwise This way you can take your time to build up your empire rather than rushing thru to 'endgame'.. & believe me you will /need/ to build your empire for at least one plot!

Ships/weps have different stats (Nova Raider, as noted above, is a good example), plus boarding is useful finally

Spoiler

Show

get Marines starting training ASAP; they take forever!

Pay attn to your rep: the old SETA spoiling system has been done away with & you can lose rep from not interacting for a while (eg in SETA) or by making the wrong moves in the wrong area/against the wrong ships. Constant trading can alleviate that problem

Pirates can be made (mostly) neutral, & landing in pirate stations is no longer a problem (& useful for certain bits of equipment early on)

See wiki links in sig below