The Return of Usenko's Star Trek Adventure Game (TM)!

[Usenko]

Way back in the dim distant reaches of last year, before Brexit or Trump, there was Usenko's Star Trek Adventure Game (TM).

Last time, all of you (most especially Morkonan) helped me to put together a fantastic game which my players truly enjoyed.

More than that, we had a blast coming up with the ideas! (Here's the thread from before!)


Well, my turn is coming up again soon (in about 3-4 months), and this time I'd like to have my concept hashed out a little more thoroughly (rather than soliciting ideas from you lot a couple of weeks out and embarrassingly discovering you had better ideas than me which had to be incorporated. ).

So I thought I'd turn my idea over to you for embellishment.

Here's the parameters:

Most of our games of late have involved rather a lot of combat. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but for a change of pace I'd like a story which was primarily Science or Diplomacy based. A certain amount of encountering unexpected enemy monsters or whatnot is fine, but Star Trek is less about shooting things and more about exploration. What if we could make that fun?

I have a concept which is already making me giggle when I think about it.

Here's the conceit:

* The Children of Tama[1] have made contact with Starfleet. They have somehow managed to communicate a desire to explore a planet jointly.

* The language of the Tamarians is somewhat better understood than it was in Picard's time, in that some diplomats with a very good knowledge of Tamarian History and culture are quite able to converse with them. However . . .

* . . . Both the Tamarians and the Federation have agreed that it is somehow desirable for this contact to be made between Starship crews rather than trained diplomats. My concept is that the diplomats are suggesting that joint operations between the two groups are the next logical step.

* There is not the slightest hint at any point of either crew showing hostility towards each other. Jeopardy for the characters is provided by the combination of the environment being explored and the lack of a common language.

* That said, the planet they are exploring contains whatever dangers we can imagine. Ideally the dangers should be of various different types, for which there could be solutions devised by Scientists, Tactical and Security officers, Engineers or Command crew (i.e. so that all the player characters get to participate).

* I don't want to have any malfunctions of common Trek-Tech (e.g. communicators or transporters) except by reasonable limitations (for example, if the characters are in a sufficiently deep cave their communicators will not be able to penetrate the rock, and presumably transporters would have difficulty getting them out) or by damage (Can't use a communicator if it's been smashed to bits by a falling boulder!). "Whoops, your transporters aren't working" seems to me to be lazy writing.

* Now, here's the fun bit: To communicate with the Tarmarians, the Player Characters will have to use metaphor. Specifically, I will give them opportunities to tell stories (over the dinner table before they go on their adventure, and round the camp fire otherwise), and they will be told that this could be important later on[2]. After that, they can use the pre-arranged code of signals I have given them (from the TV show) or they can use the stories that the Tarmarians have heard in the dinner table/campfire sessions as a basis for new metaphors!.

Story factors carrying on from the last time we played:
- The same player characters. We have:
* Captain: Caitian, very proper and protective of his crew.
* Conn officer: Human, tends to do things before thinking.
* Science officer: Human, absent-minded scientist.
* Engineering officer: Human, lovable rogue.
* Ops officer: Vulcan, insatiably curious.
* Tactical officer: Human, Space ninja.

- In the last game we found that our Engineer was a little bit defiant and tended to rub the Captain up the wrong way (which for the feline Caitians is rather a problem!).

- Our Vulcan Ops officer admitted that she lacked any kind of Telepathy sense.

- In the last adventure the ship's computer was infested with a non-corporeal creature from the Azure Nebula (calling itself the Azure Being). I have hinted that this creature is friendly. It is living in the warp engine conduits, and is using the ship and its crew to explore the galaxy again (where it was in the Azure nebula it was weak, but here it has access to energy and is enjoying experiencing different things for the first time in millennia!). It can send short messages via the screens aboard the ship, and is capable of effecting small repairs and making the drives more efficient etc (though it takes quite a lot of effort to do so!). I wasn't really thinking of having the Azure Being taking a major part in their next adventure (I intend to bring him back later on, when the characters will be given a choice - a new starship or keeping their energy buddy!), but if a good enough excuse comes up it's an option!


[1] For those here who are not Star Trek geeks, the Children of Tama are a fun concept. They are aliens with a language that the Universal Translator can't figure out - it is entirely composed of metaphors. The translator can work out the sense of the metaphors, but since the Enterprise crew don't know the context, it is still nonsense; for example, when Captain Dathon wants to indicate his desire to go down and explore a planet with Picard, he says "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra."

Non-canon sources indicate that they use an odd music-like language for technical conversations, and communicate the original stories on which their metaphors are based by some kind of low-level telepathy.

[2] I will hand wave their inability to tell stories in a Tamarian language, as this is plot critical. It's basically telepathy - the PCs imagine things and if it's somehow transmitted to the Tarmarians!

[matthewfarmery]

Seems to be a good set of ideas there. OK, the planet in question is uninhabitable (at least the ship's sensors shows that there is no life on the planet.

So you beam down an away team to check it out, you find some very old ruins, they date back 5000 years or more. But there seems to be no evidence of the civilisation in question. You could say that some of the ruins are pretty well preserved. you also find some kind of cave paintings. Now what these painting depict with some difficulty is a planet that has undergone many cycles of turmoil. From several droughts, volcanoes (and there is / might be an active / inactive volcano fairly close by, but from your tricorder readings, it seems to be little chance of erupting (or maybe the readings are wrong?

As you explore the region, you discover a cave, in this cave could be traps, (hunting traps) so by this point those that are in the cave lose contact with the ship, but then you could start to feel slight tremors (either after shocks or maybe a prelude to something worse?

As you go deeper into the cave, you start to see more evidence that the cave was also previously inhabited. (something like the time machine, either have have two very different races, or maybe the same race, but they retreated below ground, and de-evolved into something more sinister? (which could be a real threat to the away team. (and they might have not been picked up by the ship's sensors for different reasons, too far below ground, the rock is acting like a shield, or maybe the alien race's bodies might have some kind of shielding, (natural or otherwise)

But then, maybe you can communicate to the alien race in some way? maybe in the same fashion as the The Children of Tama, maybe then both races might discover they had a similar ancestry, or better yet, perhaps this might have been a planet that the The Children of Tama once occupied? and they left some behind who then suffered from the ill effects of the planet, so the new alien race could have been ancestors of the The Children of Tama.


--------

how is that? you can take the story in a few directions.

[Morkonan]

"Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows." Trinculo, Shakespeare's The Tempest

So, your "bible" of metaphors is going to be what the players come up with during storytime. While that's a good idea, it may be difficult to manage to actually be usable. Never doubt the ingenuity of roleplayers, though!

However, in a pinch, Shakespeare can come to your aid as the father of the metaphor. After a few quotes from various Tamar crew, the players will figure out that, somehow, the Tamar have learned Shakespeare... The advantage here is that many people are familiar, at least with the basics, of many Shakespearean plays. The resources are free, long being out of copyright, and there are fifty-eleven online searchable databases for the players to draw from. (Note: Props are great! If you have a book of collected works of Shakespeare, offer it up as evidence found in the personal possessions of a Tamar crewman if the players are getting frustrated.)

But, if Shakespeare is too stodgy or difficult, there's always other famous works/authors to consider, from The Holy Bible (chock-full of metaphor) to more modern works with symbolism, like Piers Anthony's "Xanth" series. Though, the latter is more visual/symbolism like than verbal.)

Again, props are great, so I'd take the time to introduce a Tamar game, here. Make one up that involves tokens and movement on a board. (Use coins or something on a piece of graph paper or print out a page of larger squares.) Stare at the setup, for a sec, and think how you can use it in metaphorical language. If one wanted to tell someone to share an idea, for instance, with fellow crew, then one may indicate a piece that represents themself and a piece that represents the idea. Then, one would move "oneself" on the board to the idea, place the idea on one's token, move one's token to the Tamar one is showing this too, move the idea token to the Tamar piece, move the Tamar piece to other Tamars and, with each, move the idea to each Tamar piece in turn as appropriate.

OR, something like that, perhaps with tokens with different symbols on them. Sword, dagger, crown, eye, spade (shovel), heart, empty hand, etc.. Or, perhaps, a collection of other pictographs that represent concepts in the roleplaying game that the players can move and associate with each other in order to communicate to the Tamar?

The whole point of the above: To get as quickly past the development of a "dictionary" to the actual use and employment of it in the game as something the players can make novel use of to make their experience more interesting.

Will continue to think on this, to be sure!

Note: I think the episode with the Tamar was the brightest, smartest, TNG episode in the entire series of newer Star Trek. I loved the concept and thought it was brilliant and extremely important. All too often, Star Trek hand-waves interspecies communication with it's tech and "Universal Translators." This has long been a point of contention in science-fiction circles and, while it's acknowledged that viewers don't want to have to wait for communications to actually get established with a new species, the contrivances have always rubbed science-fiction fans the wrong way... Beautiful episode!

[Krusade]

Damn! That sounds like a fun set of ideas to base a RPG campaign off. Whilst I do enjoy RPG combat a lot. Doing stuff like diplomacy while in character ideally with minimal rolling is really entertaining.

One question I would like to ask. Is this game purely pen and paper or do you act things out on the tabletop with miniatures? I ask this because one idea I do have could need different approaches when it comes to implementing in for your players. The idea is player drawn maps. Rather than you the GM providing the map let the players get a sense of exploration by simply describing what they can see around them and let them draw a map based on those descriptions. The GM for my D&D group started doing that recently and it's been fantastic so far. Rather than simply provide a pre done map he's telling us what's in the area, letting us do things like investigate small details (or for Star Trek, scanning with a tricorder) and ask all sorts of questions about an areas size. It's slowed the game down a bit but I personally feel much more involved with what's going on and everywhere we go it really feels like we're exploring something new. Now we're playing with minis so the playing area is very important but even for a purely pen and paper experience having the player draw out a map of where they are could really add to the game. Of course for Trek it might have to be done via scanning in some way. So maybe the old faulty tricorder gag could be of use there if you want to mislead your players, just don't over do it.

As for other things, this is an unexplored world. Now stuff like the flora and fauna being a danger is fairly standard as is stuff like rock falls. But what about weather? Having random encounters in the form of changes in the weather or even just local micro climates in certain areas could be a great way to give the players something to do. What if the weather takes a turn for the worse while the players are out in the open? Might be a good chance for the engineer to shine, making a temporary shelter from whatever is lying around (you know trees and stuff). Small things like this could really help sell the whole exploring a new world vibe you seem to be aiming for.

That's all I've got for now, I'll see I can come up with anything else.

[Usenko]

Good thinking, people! I will definitely be using some of this. The idea of using Shakespeare and Bible stories, in particular, is awesome.

So far I have been thinking about possible dangers the characters could face. An idea that seems logical would be for PCs to be paired with officers on the Tamarian ship.

The Tamarian Captain uses the same greeting as the TV show: "Rai and Jiri at Lungha. Rai of Lowani. Lowani under two moons. Jiri of Ubaya. Ubaya of crossroads, at Lungha. Lungha, her sky gray". Then:

"Picard and Dathon at El Adrel." (Let us work together to overcome our difficulties in communication).

"The animals boarding Noah's Ark." (We should arrange ourselves into pairs - a biblical reference! Can anyone think of a way of saying this that sound like Tamarian speech but that would be readily understood? It may be handy to withhold until later the fact that the Tamarians are familiar with human literature)

Each officer then comes forward.


"Mirab, at the tiller" - Conn officer

"Zinda, his fists upraised" - Security/tactical officer

"Hratic, discovering the ancient laws" - Science officer

"Kimbra, building the weapons" - Engineering officer

"Kiazi, reading parchments" - Ops officer



What do people think of this?

[Morkonan]

... Can anyone think of a way of saying this that sound like Tamarian speech but that would be readily understood? It may be handy to withhold until later the fact that the Tamarians are familiar with human literature)

Go to the source: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=YLT (Young's Literal Translation, of course)

...two by two of all the flesh in which [is] a living spirit..

Each officer then comes forward.

A few bothersome suggestions for confusion value.

"Mirab, at the tiller" - Conn officer

"Mirab and the rudder" - ie: A navigator's rudder was his personal collection of maps/courses/etc. If you'd like a literary reference, Clavelle's "Shogun" is... awesome. ie - "Mirab and Blackthorne's rudder"

"Hratic, discovering the ancient laws" - Science officer

"Hratic, stands at the seashore" - ie: "I stand at the seashore, alone, and start to think" - Feynman

"Kimbra, building the weapons" - Engineering officer

"Kimbra, and all the King's Horses" (Humpty Dumpty quote... )

"Kiazi, reading parchments" - Ops officer

"Kiazi, herding cats" = real ops officer...


Looks good. To really do it, you'll have to put a dictionary together at some point. They're going to try to communicate with the Tamar outside of script, so... you gotta fudge something together.

Tamar speech is all about esoteric cultural references that we have to infer meaning upon. Even so, it's obvious the crew in TNG doesn't fully understand the full impact of what is being said.

Put together a series of quotes that are entirely from their fictional culture - make it up. Organize them into groups of likely responses you can string together to make a meme.

You have a ton of leeway, since the players are NOT supposed to understand what these phrases mean and will only gain illumination once they have made the correct associations and inferences. To help them do that, you have to be consistent, but don't give it all up to them by always having the Tamar speaker point at, draw or act out whatever it is that they mean. Just be sure whatever they say within this phrase collection is always associated with something that is at least similar to whatever it is that you originally pair it with. They'll catch on... at least enough to get by.

Emotion phrases - anger, frustration, pleased, happy, love, hatred, agreement, disagreement, etc

Action quotes - walk, run, sit, stand, move with others, stay alone, stay with others, carry, drop, watch, point, etc.. "Point" metaphor will quickly become one of the most used once it is discovered.

Common objects - clothes, weapons, bulkhead, deck, overhead, console, chair, bed, lamp, speaker, gangway, transporter, shuttle, shuttle bay, med bay, etc.. (Some items with the same function, but that look very different from each other, will need extra phrases for you to use)

Physiological - hungry, sated, tired, alert, hurt, pain, pleasure, body-parts, sick, well, hot, cold, itchy, smelled, saw, heard, touched, etc..

Funny garbage phrases - Kimbar rode the darlok, no tea for computers, pillow walk shirt, Jarkel and Bramba in the shower, Gurt sits and squats, ... nonsense junk you throw in there to keep players guessing and to make the "real" attempts at communication stand out as little victories, but with more mysteries always lurking.

What's most important is consistency. You know this - Any group will quickly pounce on you when you make a mistake because you were inconsistent with whatever it is at the moment that they think is vital to their friggin real-life survival..

"But, you said the door had a handle on it!"
Well, a doorknob is a kind of handle, isn't it?
"NO it isn't! It's a knob, a sort of turny-locky thing, not a darn "handle" like you said!"
Well, it's a handle if you can use it pull the doormopen, right?
"F that, it's a doorknob and that's a lock thingy and I'm going to roll my lock-picking skill on it!"
But..
<Roll skill check>
"A... nineteen. OK, what happens?"
You snap the doorknob off of the door.
"AHA! I pull open the door!!!"
How are you going to do that when it no longer has a handle?
"@HTH@H@%@HT%@%H@%"

[Usenko]

Each officer then comes forward.

A few bothersome suggestions for confusion value.

"Mirab, at the tiller" - Conn officer

"Mirab and the rudder" - ie: A navigator's rudder was his personal collection of maps/courses/etc. If you'd like a literary reference, Clavelle's "Shogun" is... awesome. ie - "Mirab and Blackthorne's rudder"

"Hratic, discovering the ancient laws" - Science officer

"Hratic, stands at the seashore" - ie: "I stand at the seashore, alone, and start to think" - Feynman

"Kimbra, building the weapons" - Engineering officer

"Kimbra, and all the King's Horses" (Humpty Dumpty quote... )

"Kiazi, reading parchments" - Ops officer

"Kiazi, herding cats" = real ops officer...

Ha, love it!

So the updated version:

Mirab and the Rudder - Conn

Hratic at the Seashore - Science

Kimbra and the King's Mounts - Engineer

Zinda, his fists raised - Security/Tactical

Kiazi, reading the parchment - Ops


The Tamarian ship is somewhat larger than the Tamworth, so has more senior officers (leading to a possibility of confusion! ).

Domin herding the krivids [1] - the First Officer (the Tamworth's first officer doubles as the Chief Engineer).

Rodek and the Wounded Mariners - Ship's surgeon

Jashan consoling the lost - Ship's counsellor!

Looks good. To really do it, you'll have to put a dictionary together at some point. They're going to try to communicate with the Tamar outside of script, so... you gotta fudge something together.

My intention is to keep an updated list on a laptop, and email them the dictionary so far at the end of each session.

Tamar speech is all about esoteric cultural references that we have to infer meaning upon. Even so, it's obvious the crew in TNG doesn't fully understand the full impact of what is being said.

Put together a series of quotes that are entirely from their fictional culture - make it up. Organize them into groups of likely responses you can string together to make a meme.

You have a ton of leeway, since the players are NOT supposed to understand what these phrases mean and will only gain illumination once they have made the correct associations and inferences. To help them do that, you have to be consistent, but don't give it all up to them by always having the Tamar speaker point at, draw or act out whatever it is that they mean. Just be sure whatever they say within this phrase collection is always associated with something that is at least similar to whatever it is that you originally pair it with. They'll catch on... at least enough to get by.

Emotion phrases - anger, frustration, pleased, happy, love, hatred, agreement, disagreement, etc

Action quotes - walk, run, sit, stand, move with others, stay alone, stay with others, carry, drop, watch, point, etc.. "Point" metaphor will quickly become one of the most used once it is discovered.

Common objects - clothes, weapons, bulkhead, deck, overhead, console, chair, bed, lamp, speaker, gangway, transporter, shuttle, shuttle bay, med bay, etc.. (Some items with the same function, but that look very different from each other, will need extra phrases for you to use)

Physiological - hungry, sated, tired, alert, hurt, pain, pleasure, body-parts, sick, well, hot, cold, itchy, smelled, saw, heard, touched, etc..

Funny garbage phrases - Kimbar rode the darlok, no tea for computers, pillow walk shirt, Jarkel and Bramba in the shower, Gurt sits and squats, ... nonsense junk you throw in there to keep players guessing and to make the "real" attempts at communication stand out as little victories, but with more mysteries always lurking.

What's most important is consistency. You know this - Any group will quickly pounce on you when you make a mistake because you were inconsistent with whatever it is at the moment that they think is vital to their friggin real-life survival..

"But, you said the door had a handle on it!"
Well, a doorknob is a kind of handle, isn't it?
"NO it isn't! It's a knob, a sort of turny-locky thing, not a darn "handle" like you said!"
Well, it's a handle if you can use it pull the doormopen, right?
"F that, it's a doorknob and that's a lock thingy and I'm going to roll my lock-picking skill on it!"
But..
<Roll skill check>
"A... nineteen. OK, what happens?"
You snap the doorknob off of the door.
"AHA! I pull open the door!!!"
How are you going to do that when it no longer has a handle?
"@HTH@H@%@HT%@%H@%"

I can see that this is going to turn into our first ever "Linguistic adventure!"


[1] If the PCs do any investigation, it will turn out that the krivid is a small solitary predator, commonly kept as a pet on Tamarian worlds. Thanks Mork!

[mrbadger]

I have a great idea for a Star Trek adventure game. We've been playing it in my house for weeks (Or months, depending on how you view the term 'play')

First you start watching Science Fiction shows with your wife, so she gets into the whole Sci-fi thing.

Then you skip to you favorite of the reboot Star Treks and decide to watch Voyager.

But first you think. Hmm, I best explain to my wife that in four seasons this really significant character will appear, who also happens to be one of my all time favorite Star Trek characters, but sadly spends the whole time on screen in a skin tight leotard and has huge 'attributes'.... Because you know if you don't, you will suffer.

Then you spend several weeks attempting to explain that is is the character and the Borg and post 'Kess' Storylines you enjoy most, not the leotard and 'attributes'.

You repeat this several times, with all progress being lost each time your wife finds a picture of 7 of 9 online.

I'm not actually sure yet how the game ends. I'm still playing (on season 2 right now)

[Morkonan]

...I'm not actually sure yet how the game ends. I'm still playing (on season 2 right now)

Oh, I remember the first appearance of that... skinsuit. We used to all gather to watch various sci-fi series, a fairly large mixed group of us, wives and girlfriends included.

As soon as Seven-of-Nine appeared in that catsuit, the testosterone level in the room rose dramatically. Interestingly, it appears that sudden testosterone spikes in groups of men witnessing visual stimuli appear to agitate women, causing them to lash out, physically or verbally, against their male counterparts. Someone should probably do a study on this effect...

Interesting factoids about the earliest catsuit: http://www.thegeektwins.com/2014/11/5-h ... nines.html (Breast molds were used in order to keep certain "high point" features of the anatomy from visibly causing material stress... to the disappointment of may geeks, this one included, I'm sure.)

[Usenko]

We were gaming tonight, and I told the group that they needed to watch the episode "Darmok" before my series started.

(One complained "Wait, we're getting HOMEWORK for gaming now?")

[mrbadger]

We were gaming tonight, and I told the group that they needed to watch the episode "Darmok" before my series started.

(One complained "Wait, we're getting HOMEWORK for gaming now?")

You can hardly call yourself a Trekkie at any level unless you know that episode well.....

[matthewfarmery]

and lets not forgot, if you don't know the episode, how can they roleplay?

tell them they must watch the episode, that is an order Mr Spock!!!!

[Morkonan]

A couple of random thoughts:

If you have a copy of Bartlett's, your job as GM for this campaign/module would be easier! (Or, another quote book, but one arranged by subject.)

On the planet:

I think I had a similar idea, before, can't remember. Anyways...

God's Abacus

Reason for exploring: The planet has some unusual features. For one, it has an unusually strong electromagnetic field. It also has several large gravitational anomalies, which indicated large concentrations of mass. There are also several artificial structures on its surface which appear to be primitive astronomical devices, like many which ancient peoples have used to forecast seasonal changes and plan crop planting and the like. Yet, there are no signs at all that the planet was ever inhabited and there is no evidence of any other structure than these primitive astrolabes.

Growing evidence: The "primitive" astronomical ruins lead the crew to evidence that the system, itself, has some strange features. There are orbiting bodies of masses that would seem to dictate they should have formed closer to the system's sun. There is an orbiting body of asteroids that is at an extreme angle relative to the ecliptic plane. The planet, itself, has several small moons that are of unusually dense nature and orbit at a faster velocity than one would expect. It's also clear that another asteroid field will occasionally eject its components and several strings of asteroids have been ejected recently, each on gravitationally anomalous courses towards orbits of other planets in the system. The system, itself, appears quite "old" and the dynamics present within it and within its constituents would point to a much younger system, yet here it is... Upon further exploration, the planet hosts flora and fauna that seem to have evolved entirely around the primitive ruins. Fauna that exhibits unusual behavior, like some that exist around the ruins which appear to interact with them, in some way, perhaps even seeming to build or repair these structures.

The secret:

The system is actually a computational device. The planet being explored appears to be part of some self-correction mechanism, with the artificial structures being passive sensor devices which detect changes in the orbits of many of the system's planets and moons. The planet and its moons occasionally interacts with the several asteroid belts, ejecting bits, here and there, on intercept courses with other bodies. Deep investigation into the heart of one of the artificial structures reveal that the flora and fauna of the planet is mostly artificial and it is designed to protect the integrity of the structures, keeping them functioning, the crystal lenses clean, etc.. Power sources, for these structures, are not in evidence, yet it seems likely that gravitational and magnetic interactions between the planet and its moons may provide a means to power any active measures the planet takes in terms of its interaction with the asteroid belts.

Investigation into whatever this system-wide device could possibly be computing only yields hints that it is an extraordinarily complex equation that, without any of the other evidence, could be mistaken for simple natural regularity like is found in any system governed by natural law. Except, this system is obviously exempt and largely artificial in nature.

With evidence from the planet and hard work by both science sections, the crew is led to a small black hole orbiting the system at extreme range. It is clear that a number of asteroids and comets are, at this moment, heading on various intercept courses towards this black hole. Each group of objects have precise separations of distance within them and their regularity suggests that they are the product of the system - It is feeding "data" into this black hole! What lies within that black hole, who placed it there or where it may lead is unknown.

It is determined that whatever this computational process is and no matter the question it appears to be trying to answer, the process will end in two-billion years...

Starfleet and the Tamar Confederacy freak the F out and order that the system be quarantined. Both vow to work to regularly patrol the area to enforce the quarantine... but at an extreme distance.

As always, you're the GM. I'm just having some fun with the idea. I swear, though, I had a similar idea at some point. (Had a story revolving around it an' everything.) So, if it's not "fresh" I apologize. I'm sure I'll come up with something else to chew on.

[Usenko]

An interesting mechanic that can go with this (yet keep the story rolling):

I have recently heard of a really good GMing concept: The choice is not between "Succeed" and "Fail," it is between "Succeed" and "Succeed with penalty."

When you roll for a particular thing, you always succeed, but you may succeed with additional complications. This way the game remains satisfying for the players even when things go wrong.

Applying this to the current game: We have the two crews, the PCs and the Tamarians.

Let's just say that the PCs have to make a science roll to identify one of the structures as artificial.

If the roll is successful, they work it out. Now they have to communicate it to the Tamarian officer.

If the roll is unsuccessful, they don't work it out. But the Tamarian with them has an instrument bleep, and says "Sukath, his eyes uncovered! The wall, the mighty wall of Gresta!"

That is, HE has worked out what the structure is. So the penalty is that they have to decipher the clue from the Tamarian instead of being handed it on a silver platter.

[pjknibbs]

I have recently heard of a really good GMing concept: The choice is not between "Succeed" and "Fail," it is between "Succeed" and "Succeed with penalty."

Oh God. This just sounds like the concept that was popular in schools a while back, that kids shouldn't ever be allowed to fail. As far as I'm concerned, if there's no chance of failing at a game, it just gets boring really fast.

[Usenko]

I have recently heard of a really good GMing concept: The choice is not between "Succeed" and "Fail," it is between "Succeed" and "Succeed with penalty."

Oh God. This just sounds like the concept that was popular in schools a while back, that kids shouldn't ever be allowed to fail. As far as I'm concerned, if there's no chance of failing at a game, it just gets boring really fast.

Depends on the nature of the game. If it's a competitive game, sure that is a problem. But a good RPG is a non-competitive exercise, and the player should not be punished for random chance.

There's another thing to consider: As well as playing a game we are telling a story. As a GM, having multiple possibilities of plot is a bit of a problem - you wind up creating a lot of storyline for possibilities that don't eventuate. This technique allows you to have a much more linear story without the players feeling railroaded into one possibility.

[mrbadger]

The problem of failing in a multiplayer game, especially a DM run one where everyone is there in the same room is that if you 'fail' you are out.

So what then? You sit there and watch everyone else have fun while you twiddle your thumbs?

Sounds like a recipe for 'not coming here again' to me.

There are two solutions to this. Either you make the games really short, like Setters of Cataan, or you find alternatives to simply losing outright.

Myself I'd prefer to keep the games short, but then you lose the depth possible in longer games.

Not that I play games like that any more.

I like them, but I'm not so good, thus I found myself in the thumb twiddling camp far too often.

So I got fed up and got into single player games instead.

Back when I played there was no Settlers of Cataan, the Scenario's were interesting, but too long and difficult unless you were good enough to last all the way through, which I rarely was.

I bought my son Settlers recently, and he has tempted me to play him. I may well.

[pjknibbs]

The problem of failing in a multiplayer game, especially a DM run one where everyone is there in the same room is that if you 'fail' you are out.

Unless you're playing the most severe RPG system I've ever heard of, or have a poor GM, a single failure is not going to put you out of the game. It'll mean you miss a shot, or fail to open the door and have to find another way round. I think the sort of on-the-hoof thinking engendered by that sort of thing to be the best part of playing an RPG, which is why I'm against removing failure as an option. I think I described in the other thread Usenko had about the totally bonkers game of Star Frontier I had, which was only made possible by the GM being able to think on his feet and the players being utterly rubbish at the planned scenario.

[mrbadger]

The problem of failing in a multiplayer game, especially a DM run one where everyone is there in the same room is that if you 'fail' you are out.

Unless you're playing the most severe RPG system I've ever heard of, or have a poor GM, a single failure is not going to put you out of the game. It'll mean you miss a shot, or fail to open the door and have to find another way round. I think the sort of on-the-hoof thinking engendered by that sort of thing to be the best part of playing an RPG, which is why I'm against removing failure as an option. I think I described in the other thread Usenko had about the totally bonkers game of Star Frontier I had, which was only made possible by the GM being able to think on his feet and the players being utterly rubbish at the planned scenario.

He may well have been. You're not the first person to say that. My colleagues at work who've tried to get me to join their game nights by claiming that exact thing, but still, I got fed up.

Now traveling to their gaming evenings would be a lot of work, and I suspect the fun might have been pushed out of it for me. Maybe after a few Settlers games.

[Golden_Gonads]

An interesting mechanic that can go with this (yet keep the story rolling):

I have recently heard of a really good GMing concept: The choice is not between "Succeed" and "Fail," it is between "Succeed" and "Succeed with penalty."

When you roll for a particular thing, you always succeed, but you may succeed with additional complications. This way the game remains satisfying for the players even when things go wrong.

My opinion is that it shouldn't be possible to fail based solely on chance. Have the dice roll and if it fails then a further test of player-skill to determine 'succeed with penalty' or 'abject failure'.