May Calls General election

[Antilogic]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40281300 Farron's gone o.0

[Antilogic]

This last two years have seen the Liberal Democrats recover since the devastation of the 2015 election.
That recovery was never inevitable but we have seen the doubling of our party membership, growth in council elections, our first parliamentary by-election win for more than a decade, and most recently our growth at the 2017 general election.
Most importantly the Liberal Democrats have established ourselves with a significant and distinctive role - passionate about Europe, free trade, strong well-funded public services underpinned by a growing market economy.
No one else occupies that space. Against all the odds, the Liberal Democrats matter again.
We can be proud of the progress we have made together, although there is much more we need to do.
From the very first day of my leadership, I have faced questions about my Christian faith. I've tried to answer with grace and patience. Sometimes my answers could have been wiser.
At the start of this election, I found myself under scrutiny again - asked about matters to do with my faith. I felt guilty that this focus was distracting attention from our campaign, obscuring our message.
Journalists have every right to ask what they see fit. The consequences of the focus on my faith is that I have found myself torn between living as a faithful Christian and serving as a political leader.
A better, wiser person than me may have been able to deal with this more successfully, to have remained faithful to Christ while leading a political party in the current environment.
To be a political leader - especially of a progressive, liberal party in 2017 - and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the Bible's teaching, has felt impossible for me.
I'm a liberal to my finger tips, and that liberalism means that I am passionate about defending the rights and liberties of people who believe different things to me.
There are Christians in politics who take the view that they should impose the tenets of faith on society, but I have not taken that approach because I disagree with it - it's not liberal and it is counterproductive when it comes to advancing the gospel.
Even so, I seem to be the subject of suspicion because of what I believe and who my faith is in.
In which case we are kidding ourselves if we think we yet live in a tolerant, liberal society.
That's why I have chosen to step down as leader of the Liberal Democrats.
I intend to serve until the parliamentary recess begins next month, at which point there will be a leadership election according to the party’s rules.
This is a historic time in British politics. What happens in the next months and years will shape our country for generations.
My successor will inherit a party that is needed now more than ever before. Our future as an open, tolerant and united country is at stake.
The cause of British liberalism has never been needed more. People who will fight for a Britain that is confident, generous and compassionate are needed more than ever before.
That is the challenge our party and my successor faces and the opportunity I am certain that they will rise to.
I want to say one more thing: I joined our party when I was 16, it is in my blood, I love our history, our people, I thoroughly love my party.
Imagine how proud I am to lead this party. And then imagine what would lead me to voluntarily relinquish that honour.
In the words of Isaac Watts it would have to be something 'so amazing, so divine, (it) demands my heart, my life, my all'.
Thank you,
Tim

[Ripskar]

Given Clegg was a disestablishmentarian that question was always going to come up. Having a non-christian leader was a definite plus given the lack of believers in the working age population.
Given Farron chose to quit over it probably says more about him than anything else, though he came over as rather lacklustre during the election.

[pjknibbs]

He could have chosen better timing, though--you almost think he wanted to bury this bad news with the London tower fire? He could at least have held off a couple of days before announcing it.

[GCU Grey Area]

He could have chosen better timing, though--you almost think he wanted to bury this bad news with the London tower fire? He could at least have held off a couple of days before announcing it.

Think more likely due to Paddick quitting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40277398), which happened a few hours earlier. Pity about Farron though - certainly didn't agree with his religious views & he had the misfortune to be born on the wrong side of the Pennines, but aside from all that seemed like a decent bloke & think he did a reasonable job as LD leader. Wonder who'll be next, it's not as though they have a great number of people to choose from.

[Rednoahl]

I didn't vote - there wasn't anyone worth voting for, either for PM or locally. So no matter who won I still lose.

Everyone I know who voted for brexit did it for economic reasons, and labour and the tories ignored that entirely. As a result I know four people who voted and that's it out of hundreds. I know more people who were preparing to emigrate than voted had labour won, and the job losses locally would have been devastating had that happened. That is the only plus I can take form this farce.

Now is a time to pause and reflect on what is wrong with the country imo, because clearly all the parties have screwed up. In all my life I've never seen so many folk pissed off and wound up. Even during the miners strike I never saw the rage I see now. At least from my perspective it's time for politicians to start fixing problems rather than create them.

Just like with the people who said they were going to leave the US when Trump won, I am sure most people wouldn't have followed through with their plans.

Not voting is a bad way to get your point across. To be honest I am a bit fed up with people who always complain how bad everything is and than can't even be bothered to do the minimum necessary to change their situation by going out to vote. If there is no party you like and you know "hundreds" of people who feel like you than go out and engage in the political process. Put pressure on your local politicans so that they have to listen to you. Pick a goal and go demonstrating. Hell if necessery form your own movement or your own party to get someone you agree with to run locally so that your voice can be heard. Don't always let other people dictate the conversation, instead aim to take part on it starting at the local level. That is what it means to live in a democracy. Democracy comes with a lot of privileges, but it works best if people actually use these privileges.

Most folk I know are too busy trying to keep food on the table. How arrogant to expect the folk who graft the hardest to also be active politically. I am in my late forties now, and never - not once - have any of the political parties LISTENED during my lifetime. As a result, nobody trusts or listens to politicians.

The future will be violent, and that is my prediction. Deadly violent.

[Antilogic]

you almost think he wanted to bury this bad news with the London tower fire?

And his plan would have worked perfectly, if it wasn't for that meddling leadership election that will be highly covered by all media!

[clakclak]

Most folk I know are too busy trying to keep food on the table. How arrogant to expect the folk who graft the hardest to also be active politically. I am in my late forties now, and never - not once - have any of the political parties LISTENED during my lifetime. As a result, nobody trusts or listens to politicians.

The future will be violent, and that is my prediction. Deadly violent.

[...]How arrogant to expect the folk who graft the hardest to also be active politically. I am in my late forties now, and never - not once - have any of the political parties LISTENED during my lifetime.[...]

You do see the problem right? If you are not voicing your opinion how are they suppossed to hear it?

So you say people you know do not have the time to do anything. Fair point. But at the same time you think politicians are currently ignoring you and lying to you. So how is anything going to change this way? You are essentially saying "The politicians are evil and lying to us but we are to busy to call them out on it." The problem is that leads to a circle in which nothing changes. The politicians are not going to change something because nobody challanges them. One solution to this circle would be the above mentioned violence, but to be honest if there is time for violence, than there would probably also be time for more peaceful activities. And not everything takes a lot of time.

A few days ago I stumbled over a video from the US, one of there so called town hall meetings. A man was very outspoken in his opinion directly towards the face of a politician who voted for a law that directly negatively affected the citizen and he gave a very passionate speech. Now did this change to opinion of the guy in the suit? Judging by his smug face it didn't. But it may have changed the opinion of some people who were in the room as well. The entrie meeting takes 40 minutes. Lets say it took the guy another 40 minutes to get to the meeting, 40 minutes to get back home and 30 minutes for other stuff related to the meeting. Than he did spend 2:30 hours on a weekend and made a good contribution to the poltical process. If there are poeple who do not have that amount of time every now and than (let it be every 8-10 weeks, let it be more) than that is really a shame, because they seriously have been left behind by the political system and society as a whole.

If however you came to the final conclusion that only violence will be able to change anything than I would like to at least encourage you to rethink your position again, although knowing some people who held that type of belive I don't really think that is what you meant right?.

Listining to you I get the feeling that you would like to see the current systems of government replaced with something else, is that the case? If yes what other system would you want? (This is actually a serious question.)

Or to say it differently, could you in general elaborate on what you want to happen?

[BugMeister]

student loan debt has reached 100 billion
inflation is up, and rising - while wages are stagnating..
retails sales are reported as dropping like crazy
the pound is continuing to fall against international currencies
the banks are considering a rise in interest rates..

- yet those racist nerds out there are still saying that Brexit is a good thing..


- you couldn't make it up..

[Avis]

..- yet those racist nerds out there are still saying that Brexit is a good thing..

I thought I voted Leave for a myriad of reasons which didn't include race, most of which were to do with where and how laws are made to democratic accountability and the isolationist nature of the EUs protectionist trade block.
I also apparently didn't realise that economic downturns only happen because of Brexit even when other factors are at play within and without of the EU.

My mistake turns out it's because I'm just a racist nerd, so what do I know.

[Ripskar]

You'd almost think the pro-EU crowd were stuck in some sort of echo chamber, incapable of hearing anything contrary to their own opinion...

[Antilogic]

You'd almost think the pro-EU crowd were stuck in some sort of echo chamber, incapable of hearing anything contrary to their own opinion...

Because such things are exclusive to the side you are against.

[Golden_Gonads]

You'd almost think the pro-EU crowd were stuck in some sort of echo chamber, incapable of hearing anything contrary to their own opinion...

Because such things are exclusive to the side you are against.

Both sides have their share of crazed idiots who only see things in the most positive/negative light depending on their view.

To counter the list of negatives earlier, here are a few positives:

The UK economy is due to increase by 1.8% this year.
Exports are at a 7 year high.
Unemployment continues to fall.
Wages are still rising above inflation.
The FTSE 100 has risen 16% since the referendum. (The FTSE 250 is up 11%).

[Jericho]

You do see the problem right? If you are not voicing your opinion how are they suppossed to hear it?
But at the same time you think politicians are currently ignoring you and lying to you. So how is anything going to change this way? You are essentially saying "The politicians are evil and lying to us but we are to busy to call them out on it." The problem is that leads to a circle in which nothing changes. The politicians are not going to change something because nobody challanges them. One solution to this circle would be the above mentioned violence, but to be honest if there is time for violence, than there would probably also be time for more peaceful activities. And not everything takes a lot of time.

Well, my browser just ate my huge eloquent reply, so I'll keep this very brief.

1) I thought Trump winning was a good thing as it would force politicians to change their tactics.
2) I also thought that 9/11 was a good thing at the time, because it would force the world to change.
3) I was incredibly naive on both counts.
4) Instead of learning from the Trump victory, May just rolled out the traditional shtick.
5) May just looked awkward every time a question wasn't from the approved list. I'd love to play poker against her, with her panic face.
6) The general lack of preparedness from all sides was painful. Google: "diane abbott cringe compilation" how does she think that she can bluff her way through these conversations? I also think that Corbyn got a rough deal on that one question where he couldn't remember the amount of money, and was trying to find it on his ipad, but didn't want to give out the wrong information. He really seemed to get hauled over the coals for that, but it wasn't bad at all. I'd rather that he spent the time to get his facts in order than try to bull his way through like Diane Abbott pretending to be a 10 year old lying.


Anyway, what I was trying to say before I lost pages and pages is: Even after Trump won, even after the Brexit vote came down the line, May didn't seem to have noticed anything amiss.

She called the election, my immediate thought was "Is she bloody mad? If she doesn't want to be prime minister any more, just quit! Don't have a bloody election."

Then the media starts talking about how popular she is, and what a landslide she is going to win by.

And so, in a very uncharacteristic moment of humility, I assume that I was wrong about her and the current conservatives. After all, these people running the media and appearing on TV shows have obviously got their finger on the pulse more than I have...

Nope... I guess not. Same old bull.

[CBJ]

Wages are still rising above inflation.

Not any more.

Edit: When I searched for this on Google (search term was uk wages vs inflation) I was able to read it, but with a direct link it wants a subscription. The numbers were 1.7% for wages in the year to April, while prices were at 2.9%.

[Golden_Gonads]

Not any more.

Edit: When I searched for this on Google (search term was uk wages vs inflation) I was able to read it, but with a direct link it wants a subscription. The numbers were 1.7% for wages in the year to April, while prices were at 2.9%.

I stand corrected. Though including bonuses, wages rose on average 2.1%. Still lower than inflation of course.
(I found the BBC article covering the figures http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40273003 ).

[clakclak]

You do see the problem right? If you are not voicing your opinion how are they suppossed to hear it?
But at the same time you think politicians are currently ignoring you and lying to you. So how is anything going to change this way? You are essentially saying "The politicians are evil and lying to us but we are to busy to call them out on it." The problem is that leads to a circle in which nothing changes. The politicians are not going to change something because nobody challanges them. One solution to this circle would be the above mentioned violence, but to be honest if there is time for violence, than there would probably also be time for more peaceful activities. And not everything takes a lot of time.

Well, my browser just ate my huge eloquent reply, so I'll keep this very brief.

1) I thought Trump winning was a good thing as it would force politicians to change their tactics.
2) I also thought that 9/11 was a good thing at the time, because it would force the world to change.
3) I was incredibly naive on both counts.
4) Instead of learning from the Trump victory, May just rolled out the traditional shtick.
5) May just looked awkward every time a question wasn't from the approved list. I'd love to play poker against her, with her panic face.
6) The general lack of preparedness from all sides was painful. Google: "diane abbott cringe compilation" how does she think that she can bluff her way through these conversations? I also think that Corbyn got a rough deal on that one question where he couldn't remember the amount of money, and was trying to find it on his ipad, but didn't want to give out the wrong information. He really seemed to get hauled over the coals for that, but it wasn't bad at all. I'd rather that he spent the time to get his facts in order than try to bull his way through like Diane Abbott pretending to be a 10 year old lying.


Anyway, what I was trying to say before I lost pages and pages is: Even after Trump won, even after the Brexit vote came down the line, May didn't seem to have noticed anything amiss.

She called the election, my immediate thought was "Is she bloody mad? If she doesn't want to be prime minister any more, just quit! Don't have a bloody election."

Then the media starts talking about how popular she is, and what a landslide she is going to win by.

And so, in a very uncharacteristic moment of humility, I assume that I was wrong about her and the current conservatives. After all, these people running the media and appearing on TV shows have obviously got their finger on the pulse more than I have...

Nope... I guess not. Same old bull.

I am sorry. I really have a hard time making the connection between your post and mine. Would you mind eleborating a bit more on the point you are trying to make? Because it seems to have gone right above my head.

[BugMeister]

- well at least we'll know who's in the driving seat, as the bus goes over the cliff..!!

- what a disaster..!!

[Ketraar]

most of which were to do with where and how laws are made to democratic accountability and the isolationist nature of the EUs protectionist trade block.

As for democratic accountability, you elect the EU parliament representatives directly, you elect the EU Council Representative directly. Both then appoint and elect an executive commission. People claiming undemocratic EU are misinformed.

As for Protectionist trade, is that not why people wanted to leave Eu, so the UK can protect its trade?

I agree though, that labelling all leave voters as racist helps no one, especially not any debate.

MFG

Ketraar

[Bishop149]

As for democratic accountability, you elect the EU parliament representatives directly, you elect the EU Council Representative directly. Both then appoint and elect an executive commission. People claiming undemocratic EU are misinformed.

As misinformation/lies about the EU goes, this one seems to be one of the harder ones to squash.
Yes there are people at the heart of the EU not directly elected to their position by the public, but rather appointed by those that are.
Just as there are such people in the UK government (ours is actually substantially worse than the EU if you consider such things to be a threat to democracy).
Just as there are in literally ANY democratic government.

The situation that people who think this is "undemocratic" would presumably prefer is some form of direct democracy, which generally hasn't proven especially practical at anything but the smallest scale. . . . . except Switzerland, whose government is weird on many levels.