May Calls General election

[pjknibbs]

Well, I kind of hope Farron has more integrity than she has, but we'll have to see what happens in the unlikely event that there's a hung parliament which the Lib Dems could resolve by going into coalition.

[mrbadger]

I wonder what the voter turnout will be. I'm thinking it'll return to the usual pre referendum low level.

That was rather an exception to the norm.

[greypanther]

Well, here is a link to which seats are safest and which the most marginal. Several Lib Dems close to signing on on June the 9th...

Here, is an article about Labours leaked manifesto and here is Guido Fawkes offering the full text.

[Golden_Gonads]

I wonder what the voter turnout will be. I'm thinking it'll return to the usual pre referendum low level.

That was rather an exception to the norm.

I'm thinking higher than average levels, with the next turnout being much lower.

[Terre]

On page 82 of the Conservative manifesto, under the heading "A FRAMEWORK FOR DATA AND
THE DIGITAL ECONOMY", are the plans for a UK fire walled garden.

I think they were hoping that nobody could be bothered to read that far, the pdf is only 88 pages long. - Link a pdf

Some people say that it is not for government to regulate when it comes to technology
and the internet.
We disagree. While we cannot create this framework alone, it is for
government, not private companies, to protect the security of people and ensure the
fairness of the rules by which people and businesses abide. Nor do we agree that the
risks of such an approach outweigh the potential benefits. It is in the interests of stable
markets that consumers are protected from abusive behaviour, that money is able to
flow freely and securely, and that competition between businesses takes place on a level
playing field. It is in no-one’s interest for the foundations of strong societies and stable
democracies – the rule of law, privacy and security – to be undermined.
So we will establish a regulatory framework in law to underpin our digital charter and
to ensure that digital companies, social media platforms and content providers abide
by these principles. We will introduce a sanctions regime to ensure compliance, giving
regulators the ability to fine or prosecute those companies that fail in their legal duties,
and to order the removal of content where it clearly breaches UK law. We will also create
a power in law for government to introduce an industry-wide levy from social media
companies and communication service providers to support awareness and preventative
activity to counter internet harms, just as is already the case with the gambling industry.

Nanny says there are monsters out there.

[pjknibbs]

Nanny says there are monsters out there.

She's right, have you ever been on 4chan?

However, while it's maybe laudable that the State wants to protect us from monsters, why are they the ones who get to determine who's a monster and who isn't? My idea of what's monstrous and what is perfectly normal is not likely to align with Theresa May's, and I kind of want to make the decision for myself what I browse.

[Terre]

Nanny says there are monsters out there.

She's right, have you ever been on 4chan?

What 4chan is like, compared to what 4chan was like, are two very different things, the current version is not as extreme as it was, I miss the wild-west, but at least I had the choice to venture, as opposed to the proposed "State Verified" seal of approval monstrosity.

[Chips]

However, while it's maybe laudable that the State wants to protect us from monsters, why are they the ones who get to determine who's a monster and who isn't? My idea of what's monstrous and what is perfectly normal is not likely to align with Theresa May's, and I kind of want to make the decision for myself what I browse.

Well, it does say in breach of UK Law... but the overall thing is lacking on anything meaningful and very open to interpretation! Not a bloody clue what they're talking about

[Antilogic]

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/1/select-issues

These guys finally got themselves together. Though if you live in Scotland or NI tough luck for now.

[Antilogic]

http://vfp.me/ya1XdbDuV7mmH3uqu

Labour lower then I expected.

[Bishop149]

For me.

40% - Lib. Dem.
40% - Greens
20% - Labour

Might of expected the Green and Labour %s to be the other way round but overall pretty much as expected.
Still voting Labour. . . . . tactical as it might be.

[Skism]

http://vfp.me/ya1XdbDuV7mmH3uqu

Labour lower then I expected.

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/survey/r ... al-results

Well essentially it gives me two choices

Ukip or Labour both on 28.6%

However since really this is a two horse race between Conservatives and Labour by that logc I should vote for them.

however I would kick myself if Labour screwed up ether leaving the EU OR Immigration and I voted for them

May will probably win anyway and my (CON) MP will probably stay so maybe I should just vote Labour

And this is coming from someone who voted for the leave crew

I just find it VERY hard to agree with her on anything other than Leaving the EU these days

[Bishop149]

I just find it VERY hard to agree with her on anything other than Leaving the EU these days

I get that up to a point, it certainly seems to be their main election line:
Yes, our social policies are awful and verging on dystopian but ignore those because we will definitely do Brexit, be strong and get a good deal.

But the reality is:
Both main parties are committed to Brexit, as a leave voter you could safely vote for either, but best avoid the Lib Dems or the Greens.
As for what their negotiating position would be:
- Tories: Zero detail, beyond "getting a good deal". . . . which is utterly undefined*.
- Labour: Also want a good deal and have defined it as: Retain as much as is possible access to the single market. Guarantee rights of EU citizens currently living here and push for reciprocation for UK citizens living in the EU. A little vague, yes but a damn sight more direction that the Tories are offering which is frankly nothing more than bluster.

And whilst we're on this, the whole "It's Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn at the negotiating table" line is bollocks. That's not the PMs role, they will be there for the big meetings but the vast majority of the day to day grunt work of Brexit will fall to either David Davis / Boris Johnson or Keir Starmer / Emily Thornberry.
Funnily enough that's not the line the Tories want to push.

I'd probably advise people to ignore Brexit as an election issue. and vote on other matters on which the differences in policy are more stark.
Brexit almost certainly IS going to happen who ever wins and the only remaining argument is over which form it takes. . . . . and honestly we don't know, its unclear, the process hasn't begun yet. Our side (either of them!) can say whatever it likes now but at some point their plans will "make contact with the enemy" so to speak, at which point things will almost certainly change, perhaps dramatically.
The time to judge (and vote on?) the Brexit deal will be when the process is near complete and we know what we're getting, not now.

Edit: I must admit I am increasingly confused about the difference between "The deficit" and "The national debt". I was under the impression the two were different things, the former having fallen but the latter continuing to rise. I thought this was because in order to the debt to fall, the deficit would have to become negative.
The terms are increasingly being used interchangeably, especially by the conservatives (who of course want to look to be doing better than they are) but increasingly everywhere else as well.
I now seeing things saying that deficit is at almost exactly the same level as it was when the Tories took power in 2005.
Frankly I don't know what to think (other than everyone is probably obfuscating to their own advantage) and would appreciate someone explaining it to me!!


* The following is personal opinion, and perhaps a prediction.
I don't think the Tories plan to negotiate at all. I think they will frustrate the process for a few months, throw their hands up, claim the EU are being "unreasonable" and walk away. They are already IMO laying the ground work to prepare the public for this position.
We will leave on WTO rules the Tories will then embark on their plan to make us an offshore banking and tax haven to further enrich themselves and their mates at the expense of the rest of us.

[Rug]

I think ...

Deficit is how much we are losing per unit time (so losing less is a reduction in deficit).

National debt is total outstanding - which rises all the time unless the deficit becomes a surplus.

Rug

[muppetts]

Just wondering if people think Corbyn is a bonus or problem for Labour, he strikes me as very, well 1980's, I can't shake it, he just does not seem very dynamic, I mean he folded on the whole EU vote, which I thought he was passionate about (staying in), just wonder if he really wants to be PM (hungry for it).

[pjknibbs]

Well, the polls this week are showing him as having had quite a boost to his popularity over this election build up while May's personal popularity has tanked, so he's maybe not as much of a liability as he appeared a couple of months ago. Also, turning up for the TV debate last night but only announcing he would a few hours beforehand really wrong-footed the Conservatives--that was a smart political move on his behalf.

[Chips]

Turning up for the TV debate last night but only announcing he would a few hours beforehand really wrong-footed the Conservatives--that was a smart political move on his behalf.

Hehe, yep, thought it was a clever ploy. He didn't suddenly think "Oh, i'll attend"...

Whether it really has an impact is probably down to the media more than the population watching it changing their minds. Certainly the left wing media were very much playing on May's absence, no idea about the rest as I can't be arsed to read it all. The hype is only because Corbyn "last minute" turned up for this one while she didn't. But with modest (3.5m) viewing figures, it's how the media/news/papers hype it that'll may actually make it relevant.

Only a week left of this codswallop though. Postal ballot filled in and sent.

[BugMeister]

shame the Lib-Dems are fronted by a Gollum look-alike..

they actually have some decent policies..

[Antilogic]

shame the Lib-Dems are fronted by a Gollum look-alike..

they actually have some decent policies..

Everything about this post annoys me.

[Skism]

I just find it VERY hard to agree with her on anything other than Leaving the EU these days

I get that up to a point, it certainly seems to be their main election line:
Yes, our social policies are awful and verging on dystopian but ignore those because we will definitely do Brexit, be strong and get a good deal.

But the reality is:
Both main parties are committed to Brexit, as a leave voter you could safely vote for either, but best avoid the Lib Dems or the Greens.
As for what their negotiating position would be:
- Tories: Zero detail, beyond "getting a good deal". . . . which is utterly undefined*.
- Labour: Also want a good deal and have defined it as: Retain as much as is possible access to the single market. Guarantee rights of EU citizens currently living here and push for reciprocation for UK citizens living in the EU. A little vague, yes but a damn sight more direction that the Tories are offering which is frankly nothing more than bluster.

And whilst we're on this, the whole "It's Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn at the negotiating table" line is bollocks. That's not the PMs role, they will be there for the big meetings but the vast majority of the day to day grunt work of Brexit will fall to either David Davis / Boris Johnson or Keir Starmer / Emily Thornberry.
Funnily enough that's not the line the Tories want to push.

I'd probably advise people to ignore Brexit as an election issue. and vote on other matters on which the differences in policy are more stark.
Brexit almost certainly IS going to happen who ever wins and the only remaining argument is over which form it takes. . . . . and honestly we don't know, its unclear, the process hasn't begun yet. Our side (either of them!) can say whatever it likes now but at some point their plans will "make contact with the enemy" so to speak, at which point things will almost certainly change, perhaps dramatically.
The time to judge (and vote on?) the Brexit deal will be when the process is near complete and we know what we're getting, not now.

Edit: I must admit I am increasingly confused about the difference between "The deficit" and "The national debt". I was under the impression the two were different things, the former having fallen but the latter continuing to rise. I thought this was because in order to the debt to fall, the deficit would have to become negative.
The terms are increasingly being used interchangeably, especially by the conservatives (who of course want to look to be doing better than they are) but increasingly everywhere else as well.
I now seeing things saying that deficit is at almost exactly the same level as it was when the Tories took power in 2005.
Frankly I don't know what to think (other than everyone is probably obfuscating to their own advantage) and would appreciate someone explaining it to me!!


* The following is personal opinion, and perhaps a prediction.
I don't think the Tories plan to negotiate at all. I think they will frustrate the process for a few months, throw their hands up, claim the EU are being "unreasonable" and walk away. They are already IMO laying the ground work to prepare the public for this position.
We will leave on WTO rules the Tories will then embark on their plan to make us an offshore banking and tax haven to further enrich themselves and their mates at the expense of the rest of us.

I would not put it past them to be planning on making a tax haven I mean David C was caught doing it.

Anyway the thing for me is that I can't trust this Government not to be oppressive I remember one time in the Jobcentre:

I was sitting waiting for my appointment and a 'advisor' and a women where arguing.

the womens benefits had been stopped and she resorted to desperately saying how she was going to feed her children with no money coming in

The advisor was also a women and was being fairly patronizing something about an Emergency fund or loan or something.

I don't remember how that ended (I think i was called at that point)

I just can't vote for these people.

Of course I don't know the full story of that one....but still.