X3TC vanilla player seeking guidance in path forward

[g0regrind]

First of all: This game is phenomenal.

I started playing X3TC last year and was quickly fascinated by the endless
possibilities, however lost interest after attempting the Hub storyline as my first major questline in an M4. I don't know how I ended up attempting this one before any of the other story missions, but I guess I triggered the event at some point and simply went for it full blast.

Recently, after playing Stellaris' Utopia DLC extensively, but quickly getting frustrated with the end-game I remembered X3.

The freedom and complexity in this game are mind-boggling. I love when I can find out about game-changing features on a daily basis. The game sometimes feels like learning a new programming language. There is a lot of trial and error, but when the challenges are overcome the satisfaction is substantial.

I just recently discovered that there are unique and relatively rare ships, that can in fact be captured. Of course I was aiming to get my hands on an Paranid Hyperion Vanguard. After setting up about 30 factories and building a combat fleet, I set out to train marines and decided the OTAS Sirokos would be my ideal boarding ship. However, the grind necessary to get to Rank 10 at the OTAS company is getting increasingly frustrating.

I was enthralled when I set up my first small squadron of fighters. Then they crashed into my attack target one by one. Equipping, managing and commanding multiple Wings of combat ships, most of which crash into targets like immobile Pirate Bases makes large scale combat seem rather flawed.

I think the fundamentals of X3TC are a glorious culmination of each science fiction fan's dreams and aspirations. However, how they come together in the game is flawed, to a degree where I feel that playing the later stages of the game would become less enjoyable, as layers of complexity are added, that are not supported well by the game's interface, or AI.

I would love to keep playing, but do not really see it happening in vanilla TC. Do you guys think X3AP with LU will relieve me of my frustrations with the combat AI, the chores of equipping 20 new TS ships and the management of large fleets?

I hope the answer is yes, as getting my hands on a Sirokos in X3AP would be considerably easier
And besides, from a roleplay perspective I guess I could continue the lineage of my current pilot Hari Gul and "transfer" my funds by console command to X3AP without my conscience screaming bloody cheater.

[RainerPrem]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

This is a fascinatingly short and precise analysis of the highlights and deepest flaws of these games

cu
Rainer

[Erqco]

I love TC and AP, the last one is my "perfect" game. I know it is not really perfect, but I have enjoyed with it over a thousand hours and I know that I will be back.

[Triaxx2]

I wonder if perhaps you're not attempting to rush things a bit too much.

I mean, rank 10 in OTAS is a bit of an exercise of frustration. Between randomly getting 'follow this guy missions' and Deliver a bunch of weapons you can't actually buy ones, it requires considerable patience. And for all that, the Siroko's isn't worth it for taking a Hyperion. The bonus marines won't help, and may actually hinder things.

Going to AP might be a good change, but play a bit of vanilla before going modded and see how much was altered to your liking before jumping into LU. On the other hand, me, I'd just mod up TC to my preference. I won't go into too much detail, but the ability to make ships bail in the larger classes and the ability to board via the transporter are both available options, and much easier than slogging through OTAS.

Also, Bounce. More lives have been saved than with any other mod I've seen. Will stop 'RAMMING SPEED' from being a combat tactic by the AI.

[g0regrind]

Between randomly getting 'follow this guy missions' and Deliver a bunch of weapons you can't actually buy ones, it requires considerable patience.

Yeah, after attempting a mission where I was supposed to buy 3 types of missiles for the OTAS HQ, all of which were pretty much out of stock, and ultimately would have given me a minor percentage in rep, I saved and quit and haven't started it back up since.

I did however start a new game of X3AP with LU, and the cockpit mod, and boy am I excited. I hope the HUB plotline is part of X3AP. I would not love to have to miss out on my own homebase.

Also, Bounce. More lives have been saved than with any other mod I've seen. Will stop 'RAMMING SPEED' from being a combat tactic by the AI.

Oh yeah!

I'm also hyped for "Marine Combat Training" and "Explorer Command Software"

Is Litcube a single person, or a collective? This mod seems too good to be true.

[Honved]

Litcube is a person, but I believe he has a team working with him on the major overhaul mod. Personally, I'm less than happy with the major overhauls, which seem to be much more "reflex" oriented than how I play, and focus on aspects which I personally don't really enjoy. Not that I don't enjoy several mods (a "bailing" mod, toned down quite a bit from the excessive default, and a "mobile repairs" mod to make Repair Lasers available for installation on ships).

Fighter wings (and AI maneuvering in general) have been problematical, particularly at high speeds. I don't use light, fast fighter wings, because they tend to crash into anything and everything, including the player's ship. and have been known on many occasions to attempt to shoot THROUGH the player's ship (with a somewhat less than desired result). Speaking of the AI's maneuvering, there is a reason why the "autopilot" landing sequence has often been referred to as "auto-pillock", where it attempts to defy the law of physics about two objects occupying the same space at the same time. I've had more games than I care to think about ruined by some NPC ship crashing into my stations, and then a race reaction fleet shows up to prevent my station from killing again. Near perfect relations with a faction, and they shoot me on sight.

I understand that some things have been tweaked for AP to make the inevitable crashing less frequent, but the underlying problem is still there.

Normally, the HUB plot isn't available in TC until you've completed the initial Terran plotline. There is a mod to add the TC plots back into AP, if you go that route.

Enjoy.

[Sirrobert]

Also, Bounce. More lives have been saved than with any other mod I've seen. Will stop 'RAMMING SPEED' from being a combat tactic by the AI.

It's still a great tactic for the player though. Especially in the fast M6 ships.
Load an Appollox (fastest M6 in LU) with Phased Shockwave Generators (which sap speed), and just ram fighters out of the sky

[g0regrind]

Yeah, I have crashed quite a few enemies out of existence in my M6 Dragon back in TC. As far as I understand that is still possible with Bounce, since the mod only applies to player owned ships that are not currently flown.

Why are the ship prices in X3AP so exorbitant compared to TC?
Is it that much easier to make money in X3AP (excluding the vanilla stock exchange exploit) or were they simply underpriced in TC?

[Nanook]

...
Why are the ship prices in X3AP so exorbitant compared to TC? ...

They aren't. It's likely your mod that's changed the prices.

EDIT: To quote Litcube's Wiki, "Ships cost more. A lot more".

[Triaxx2]

Sadly, ramming a Dragon with a Kestrel does not result in a dead Dragon. Which makes me sad even though it makes perfect sense.

[Honved]

Fortunately, ramming a Q with a Diemos is a much more satisfying experience for the Diemos pilot than for whatever the Q possesses in lieu of a pilot. That satisfaction is amplified if you simply hold down the fire button for the quad (or more) Phased Shockwave Generators that demolish the Q's shields before impact.

Kestrel (or Harrier) pilots are warned not to try this trick at home or against their nearest Station or passing Q. Please be informed that this will void your life insurance policy, and may have other undesirable side effects, including severe bleeding and thoughts about suicide. Note that a Kestrel (or Harrier) normally carries a few Giga-joules less shielding than a Diemos, and an IRE or PAC is not an adequate substitute for a PSG.

Some of us have learned these important lessons through experience.

[jlehtone]

Sadly, ramming a Dragon with a Kestrel does not result in a dead Dragon. Which makes me sad even though it makes perfect sense.

Old hands at the bar murmured once that in the old X-Universe (era before Dragon Incident) being faster had some perks. Defies physics. Too many free drinks? (They mentioned "asteroid bowling" as well ...)


On the other hand the Terran Tokyo has pointy things on its bow. Being impaled by them is not fun.

[Triaxx2]

Pirate Kestrel can fire Remote Guided Warheads, which do make adequate substitutes.

[hisazul]

With a single upgrade in class past kestrel you can enjoy the glorious feeling of flinging squash mines at Qs. Much more stylish then just ramming SkyNet.... errr... I meant Faraday ff91 cars... no wait... still not right, terran lawnmower AI? Hmmm.... ANYWAY.

Experience will vary. Some will dearly love collisions or UI or whathaveyou. Some won't. If you want to enjoy your experience it is probably best to find the spot where you are happy. I never liked boarding so I rarely used it and opted out for PHQ production to fill in the gap of unique ships. In the same sense if you want fighter action perhaps you would be better off going to X3:R instead of TC or AP.

Also I think your idea of late game is a tad bit off. While assuming you do everything, you end up with a lot of things to deal with that is nether an added complexity nor is it broken due to AI/UI. You are dealing with different things at that point, still logistics just different kind of logistics. You go from worrying about cash reserves, reputation, access to equipment to managing your assets. While at the start it was hard for me to find enough weapons to stick on a newly acquired shiny Kyoto... later my concerns shifts to dealing with logistics of transporting said equipment. The way equipment works never changes really... there are some minor quality of life features you can use but fundamentally it is still the same.

Same thing applies to "a lot" of things. Fighters got kind of phased out in later X games simply because they are too weak, it's not even a matter of being fragile at this point they just severely lack firepower. Rebirth partially addressed power creep but it came at it's own price which still renders them even more niche.

While a carrier with a full set of fenrirs can do wonders it can also just flat out fail so horribly you will want to cry. Some get the hang of using it and they can make it work most of the time... some opt out and decide to instead use TL loaded with mk1 drones. There are pros and cons for both. Using drone TLs eliminates the learning period(you still need to figure out how many drones you need for what and when to bail instead) in smaller numbers with less powerful targets it also tends to be cheaper short term at the very least but you have loses that need to be fully replaced and they are more numerous regardless of your experience in using them. So do you spend millions on each individual fighter and learn how to handle them? or do you decide it is not worth it for you and just slap a few drone manufacturing stations and use drones instead that are just put in cargo hold and you are done kind of deal?

You have to go to that that place and find the answer for yourself.

Using Sirokos is VERY HARD btw. You will absolutely have to use a minimum of two ships for boarding with it since Sirokos can't keep shields down on anything, rear turret is there for flak and that is it... missiles just boarding pots and mossies... not a lot of ships can be kept down with mossies and they are the ones that you can't board anyway.

[TTD]

quote "Some of us have learned these important lessons through experience."

that brings back memories , lol