pre-orders and DLC

[mrbadger]

I’ve never actually partaken of this pre-order thingy in games.

In fact I never did even when it was real, as in when there were physical copies of games to be set aside in games shops for you on the day a game was released, not digital downloads for which pre-order is no more than a buzzword for the gullible.

There is no such thing as a shortage of availability on release day for digital releases.

I have only pre-ordered one thing in my life, that being a David Weber book whose release I was eagerly anticipating, and purchase of which was inevitable. Pre-ordering it gained me nothing except an email notifying its arrival in my Audible basket, and I purchased it within moments of getting that email.

So it wasn't really a pre-order, it was a convenient reminder and a 'let us put this in your basket for you, since you've told us you want it.'

That use of pre-order I didn’t mind, because that book was one I was desperate to get my mitts on. It’s not really a pre-order in the sense the games industry are doing it. They are trying to bypass games reviewers, sell incomplete products and other dodgy things.

It seems to me that a lot of the online personalities I follows are dead against pre-orders. The problem wouldn’t even have occurred to me, like I said, I’ve never done it.

It’s the same as DLC. Some I like and buy, some I don’t, so I don’t buy it, it’s very simple for me.

There seems to be a big deal about day one DLC, but I know little about that other than it seems to be removal of pieces of the finished game to be sold as separate products.

If that’s true than it just reflects badly on anyone dumb enough to fall for such an obvious con.

But I play older games, not games that are newly released, so I don’t get that.

On the advice of someone from here I bought Civ 5 Brave New World from Steam with all the DLC for cheap (I think it was a tenner)

Leaving aside the fact that I have barely learned how to play it yet, I love it.

Would I buy Civ 6 with DLC at full price? Not a chance. Why do that when I can still be playing Civ 5 for the next two years then get Civ 6 and all the extra’s for cheap too?

[Jericho]

I never understand the problem with pre-order.

1) All the locations that I've pre-ordered (origin, Steam, GAME website), the money is not taken from your account until the game released. So you're not actually giving them anything early. (I don't know if this has changed, so forgive me if it has).

2) You can cancel that pre-order right up until the last minute. Games used to be reviewed before release (see my later comments), so had plenty of time to cancel.

3) I can pre-load this 50gb game so it is ready to unlock and play the moment that the game is released. This might not seem like a big deal to some people. But, with a full time job, and a 3-yearold boy with endless amounts of energy, I have grab those scarce moments of gametime where I can, and putting junior to bed, and then waiting 6 hours for the game to download is simply not an option.

4) Steam refunds in the first 2 hours of gameplay. So if you've pre-ordered, the reviews come in with 37/100, you can refund.



Now, here is the crap stuff about pre-order, which means I probably won't be doing it any more.

1) Review embargos are becoming later and later, and indeed right up to 'late' on the day of release. Therefore they are pointless for pre-orders. Bethesda is pulling some hokey shit with their "no review copies" to give those independent YouTubers an equal chance as GameSpot and IGN et al. So Prey for example has been out for days, and the big sites haven't reviewed.

2) Pre-order bonus is always crap. Weapons or armor, they are always crap, and always replaced in the first 20 mins of the game. (That said, the pre-order bonus assault rifle and smg in Andromeda were nice, and they'd obviously spent some time designing the weapon set to look different and obviously from a different corporation). Pre-order bonus maps in multiplayer just divides the community.

3) I don't know if all places only take your money when the game is released rather than sooner.

4) Game reviews are getting later and later, thus making pre-order a gamble.


So the only benefit to me for a pre-order is that I can play the moment the game unlocks. That is vital for my lifestyle, as I have no willpower


But yeah, no real point these days.



Now, DLC.

1) Day 1 DLC. I have no problem with Day 1 DLC that is on the disc/download. People scream "It should have been in the game!!!!!!! hey just removed it so they can charge for it!!!!!!!" No. No they didn't. There were 300 people working on that game, right up until 3 months before release. Then only a few bug fixers were working on it. The rest of the people are either fired, working on a new game, or making DLC

2) I hate, HATE HATE HATE DLC that comes out 3 months later. It is always a separate island (Skyrim, Fallout) or a separate ship/space station (Mass Effects). It has nothing to do with the main story, it is never mentioned in the main story, in the case of Mass Effect 3, Aria is suddenly back in the citadel once again even though she has reclaimed Omega, and she won't even talk about how you helped it. The other voice actors are never there. I just hate it and no longer buy it. Lair of the Shadow Broker and Omega are great, but the way that they are mangled into the plot is just horrible.

[pjknibbs]

The problem with pre-ordering is that you're essentially buying a game mostly sight unseen. Unless the game is absolutely awful from the get-go then you'll likely not notice its bad points until you're past the Steam two-hour refund window, and by then it's obviously too late--the publisher already has your money. Before digital downloads were a thing, when you had to go out to an actual shop to buy the games, you probably wouldn't have bought a game without checking reviews to see if it was any good, why do anything different now?

[mrbadger]

I suppose the Steam predownloading thing is an advantage, but is that part of what is currently being touted as pre-ordering, or just a Steam thing? I've never done it, although I did notice it was an option with Rebirth or some other game I was interested in I think. I just didn't bother.

Besides, Steam only recently (to me at least) did the refund thing. And it is admiral, as it's caused a *lot* of problems for companies pushing out incomplete buggy games to customers they've tried hard to keep uninformed until release day. But Steam is just one Platform, albeit a big one. It isn't solving the problem.

[Jericho]

But Steam is just one Platform, albeit a big one. It isn't solving the problem.

All the digital platforms allow the pre-loading of the game that you have purchased.

But that isn't really a good reason to pre-order.

I prefer RPGs and RPG-Lite games, therefore there are going to be bugs. Playing the game on Day 1 is stupid.

I only pre-order because I have no willpower. There really isn't a reason to these days.

[X2-Illuminatus]

But Steam is just one Platform, albeit a big one. It isn't solving the problem.

Origin has a refund policy too, even a better one than Steam.

Refund requests can be made within 24 hours after you first launch the game, within seven days from your date of purchase, or within seven days from the game's release date if you pre-ordered, whichever comes first. And if you purchase a new EA game within the first 30 days of its release date and can't play it due to technical reasons within EA's control, you can request a refund within 72 hours after you first launch the game instead of 24.

And there's of course GOG with its 30 days refund policy. Whereby, GOG hardly sees any relases of new games.

[mrbadger]

I buy more games from GoG than anywhere else. Didn't even know they had a refund policy, I haven't bought any new games as such, just new to me.

[BigBANGtheory]

The only pre-ordered game I'm likely to benefit from is Elite Dangerous as I paid for the lifetime expansion when it was cheap. Naturally this is a calculated gamble of me being committed to the game long term and Frontier expanding the game long term. I didn't play ED really during beta or release I started 1.5yrs after well into Horizons.

Every other pre-order I've ever done has seen no benefit to me, highest price paid for the poorest experience. Pre-ordering is essentially anti-consumer in my view and greed/impatience on my part. Early Access however I think does have a place so long as the developer is committed to a roadmap. I can't stand games like H1Z1, Rust and Ark that quite blatantly abuse the EA model.

[pjknibbs]

I'm not a fan of Early Access either, TBH. The main issue I have with it is that you're playing a pre-released version of the game which will be buggy and missing features, which will either put you off the game or, if it's good enough, will see you sick of playing it and move on to something else before the game ever gets released. Secondary issue is that the developer has no obligation to ever actually *finish* their game, so you end up with situations like Towns and Spacebase DF-9 which never did get finished--the developer just flipped the version to 1.0 and said, "Right, this is us released now" without finishing things.

Overall, I believe that waiting for a game to be released, reading reviews, and maybe waiting for a patch or two is still the best way to buy the things.

[Jericho]

I'm not a fan of Early Access either, TBH. The main issue I have with it is that you're playing a pre-released version of the game which will be buggy and missing features, which will either put you off the game or, if it's good enough, will see you sick of playing it and move on to something else before the game ever gets released.

Yes, this.

I've 'bought' 2 early access games.

Starbound: Got bored of it the moment I went to the 2nd planet and realized that it was just start from scratch with new colours. All the alien buildings that I found underground meant nothing. No idea if it ever made it out of release.

Carmageddon: I had such happy memories of university playing the original, using the hack to unlock the time limit on the demo, and a group of us networking PCs in my flat to play it. This early access stank though.

I kind of see Early Access as just 1 step above Asset Flipping.
Asset Flipping is essentially:
1) Download the Unreal Engine and all the free content.
2) Complete the coding demo to make a poor FPS using all the free assets.
3) Maybe add a stolen asset or two.
4) Release the game on Steam for $4.99
5) Hope that only 20% of people ask for a refund.
6) Laugh all the way to the bank.

Early Access just takes away the motivation to release the game. "Look at all the money I got from releasing this Alpha! Why would I spend more time finishing the game for only a few more customers?"

When I see an Early Access game, I'm just reminded of the modding community:

"This is our new Total Conversion of Oblivion!!!!!! We're going to recreate Morrowind in the Oblivion engine!!!! Look at our cool website!!!!! Look at our cool 3D models!!!!"

5 years later Skyrim is released. "We've decided to move to the Skyrim engine instead...."

5 years later, a youtube video is released showing some mediocre drab graphics....

Whenever I hear about a cool new huge mod, I know it's never going to actually see the light of day. The community will disband long before it is finished, and then some half-baked version of the mod will be released (e.g. the 3 restoration projects for KotOR 2)

Early Access is no different.

[birdtable]

@ Jericho ... I think the rather large mods for the X series did come to fruition and were rather good.... so maybe in these rare cases (X series) an exception to the rule ... but I do agree they are rare and very far between.
Anyone who buys early access gambles with a very many sided dice and totally agree with pjknibbs opinion of early access ... buying pre-order in this day an age of digital downloads is the cause of substandard products.... although I did weaken and pre-order X Rebirth and will no doubt do the same with X4.

[pjknibbs]

although I did weaken and pre-order X Rebirth and will no doubt do the same with X4.

Really? I certainly won't. In fact, Rebirth (along with Borderlands 2) is one of the main reasons for my attitude toward pre-orders hardening in the last few years, because it showed me that even the most trusted developer can mess up big time.

(I mentioned Borderlands 2 because I think it's essentially the same game as the original, only with even more ridiculously bullet-sponge enemies. I even pre-ordered the Collector's Edition because I was so impressed with the first game and excited to see the sequel, so I have that Marcus bobble-head sitting on my desk as a stark reminder to not trust pre-release hype no matter what).

[Jericho]

(I mentioned Borderlands 2 because I think it's essentially the same game as the original, only with even more ridiculously bullet-sponge enemies. I even pre-ordered the Collector's Edition because I was so impressed with the first game and excited to see the sequel, so I have that Marcus bobble-head sitting on my desk as a stark reminder to not trust pre-release hype no matter what).

Wow, I love Borderlands 2, and didn't think they were bullet-sponges at all (I go for SMG and revolvers, so either a quick blast, or double-headshot kills everything). But then I'm boring and usually play Siren. Those Bullymongs at the start were a bulletsponge pain now I think about it. But they were done and dusted quite quickly. Everything else has either head-shots or their softspots.

Borderlands the Pre-Sequel though... That was poor (Never give your good IP to a new spin-off studio, e.g. Mass Effect Andromeda.)


I didn't know the X-series even had mods. Haven't played in probably 10 years.

[Morkonan]

People speak out against buying Preorders and Day One DLC because customers buying these options help to encourage bad habits by publishers/developers.

Not all preorders are bad and not all Day One DLC is a rip-off. Unfortunately, some of it is and some very big franchises and titles have been guilty of taking advantage of the preorder/dlc craze.

I don't normally preorder a game because I want to see what I'm getting, first, and I don't want to deal with unsquashed release bugs. I "might"consider inducements for preorders if it's a franchise/IP I really like, but none so far have really tempted me.

I review lots of information about games I'm interested in before I buy them. (Less so if it's really cheap or deeply discounted.)

Another controversy that has arisen is the "Season Pass" deal, where you pay one fee for all the DLC to be released for that year for the game. I wouldn't recommend that for anyone unless it's a game that they are sure they'll still be playing the whole year... And, the history there isn't that great, either, so a good deal relies on the developer's reputation for producing quality DLC.

[pjknibbs]

Wow, I love Borderlands 2, and didn't think they were bullet-sponges at all (I go for SMG and revolvers, so either a quick blast, or double-headshot kills everything).

Have you never played True Vault Hunter mode in Borderlands 2? You know, the mode where it takes half-a-dozen headshots with your most powerful weapon to take down regular Bruisers, while they can kill you in two glancing hits?

[Jericho]

Have you never played True Vault Hunter mode in Borderlands 2?

No. I play games to enjoy them. My masochism goes only so far.

I've played a few games on Nightmare or Insanity or whatever. I discovered that "normal" mode is named as such for a very good reason.

I enjoy a challenge, but I also know that I won't enjoy dragging a stubborn elephant up a mountain.

[mrbadger]

I remember long ago playing Doom on the hardest difficulty level just to see what it was like.

It was an experience. Generally breif and rather gibby....

[pjknibbs]

I remember long ago playing Doom on the hardest difficulty level just to see what it was like.

I'm pretty sure I completed Doom 2 on Nightmare difficulty, but that was 20 years ago--I doubt I'd be able to do it now. As I recall, the most difficult thing about it was that enemies would respawn, so you couldn't clear out an area and then travel safely back through it as you could in all other difficulties.

@Jericho: Problem is, the way the Borderlands games are set up means that you need to play the highest difficulties to reach max level and/or get the best loot. This was entirely possible to do solo in the original game, it simply wasn't in B2.

[Jericho]

@Jericho: Problem is, the way the Borderlands games are set up means that you need to play the highest difficulties to reach max level and/or get the best loot. This was entirely possible to do solo in the original game, it simply wasn't in B2.

I've started up Borderlands 2 again last night, and now I realise what you meant about True Vault Hunter Mode. Yup, New Game+. Yes, I always try go for that.

In Borderlands 1, the enemies were usually a little different. Spike shields, and tougher. In Borderlands 2, they are a just the same but take more damage. I've not had a problem though with my Siren and her SMGs and revolvers. I should point out that my bonuses from redeeming BadAss tokens are pretty substantial, as I've played a LOT of Borderlands 2.

I've just started my umpteenth playthrough. I have about 600 hours logged according to Steam. (Although I know that about 30-40 of those were on pause so that I didn't have to restart a level and clear it out all over again).

I also discovered that all my characters were locked at level 50, despite me having all the substantial DLC (and the season pass). So something odd going on there.